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Parelli training...what do you think??

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  • I just wanted to add something.

    A large portion of Parelli's techniques are not "his" per say. Many of the ideas and methods he employs in his training program come from many years of previous trainer generations. So many of these techniques were used before Parelli, or John Lyons, or Monty, or whomever. There's nothing NEW, or NATURAL or MIRACULOUS about it - it's been around for a while. These guys were just the geniuses that gave it a name and marketed it as their own.... But it's truly not that unique, it's been around a while, and long before any of these "horse whisperers" came and "reinvented" the already invented wheel. Taking the time to build your horses confidence, and teach him to trust you goes a long way in training, and taking that confidence and using it to teach a horse to respond to certain cues is training. That's pretty much what this is: basic training.

    If I'd been born before Parelli I too could have taught a horse to move away from pressure with my hand or leg, and then called it a porcupine game..... Or, you could just call it what it is: teaching your horse to move away from pressure........ If I'd just been born a little earlier, I could be making the millions!!!! lol. Brilliant, bloody brilliant.

    As an aside, I do agree with LMH - Parelli is more of a people trainer as opposed to a horse trainer. He can train horses, but he trains people even better! (to be confident with their crazy critters).

    Quote for the week:

    \"Never under-estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.\" - Shirt Slogan

    Comment


    • I saw one of their weekend shows. They do not have much regard for safety. At one point his wife backed her warmblood into the trailer. Her head, without a helmet of course, was against the back of the trailer. Pat looked at her and commented on how she was "showing off". Another time during their frequent rides without reins his wifes horse took off. Yup, ears back and that look in its face. She continued to smile as the horse came to a sliding stop. That weekend they had built a ring with sand and those posts that are used for electric fences. Those skinny metal ones. Her horse came to a sliding stop in front of one of those poles. People in the front row were falling over each other to get out of the way. She almost came off into the pole. During the breaks the trainers all went into the ring to demo. SO many were very comfortable with smacking the horses with that heavy carrot stick. Lots of ear pinning and tail switching. This program may have some benefits, but what I saw that weekend was enough to make me want to keep away. Jumping picnic tables is a cool thing? Riding green horses without helmets? I left knowing that this was not a safe place to be.
      marty

      Comment


      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roguelet:
        OMG... I forgot about the reins being tied in a knot! This has been a trip down memory lane! I DO remember no stirrups quite well, though... yuk. I would rather ride bareback... the way they made us cross the leathers in front of the saddle always left a bulge right where I was trying to grip with my thighs... can you say bruise??? The "airplane 2pt" instructor also used to put a dollar between our leg and the saddle before doing any no-stirrup work, and told us if it was still there at the end of the lesson it was ours. She also used to yell "EMERGENCY DISMOUNT!" at any given time in a lesson and we were expected to fly out of the saddle. Thanks for the memories, folks... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><span class="ev_code_BLUE">Roguelet, </span> <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Oh the memories! yes those darn irons! "Cross your irons & knot your reins!" I remember being amazed that the horse took me over...You know, how long has it been since you tried that???</span> <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">This trip down memory lane has given rise to an old happy memory- that I may resurect this summer! Maybe that should be one of my new year resoulutions?! </span> <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">~Christina</span>
        ~*Ride Far*~Ride Well~*~ The Sky's the Limit~
        www.firstgiving.com/christinahyke

        Comment


        • <span class="ev_code_BLUE">Roguelet, if we do this, I'll email you a pik, what do you say? </span>
          <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">I'm talking baby fence, though here, okay? I am now a trail riding dressage cow chasin' endurance type rider, that will have to revive a little xc to get my stallion ready for a possible future performance test. Only thing we have jumped latey was logs/ branches in the woods... though I think he could jump the moon, he has the heart to do so.</span> <span class="ev_code_GREEN">you realize we are so far off this parelli thing now that we will have to start a new thread???</span>
          <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">"Memory Lane" or "Sans irons" ??</span>
          ~*Ride Far*~Ride Well~*~ The Sky's the Limit~
          www.firstgiving.com/christinahyke

          Comment


          • Is'nt this NH stuff really just horse-man-ship and common sense? AHHHHHHH! The things that people will spend money on. Rome was not built in a day and you can't learn everything about horses in a week or two or even a year or two. To understand horses you must learn them and observe them...this means considerable time must be spent with them and with people that can teach you about them. Many people today do not have that time but want those results.

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trakehners2000:
              STILL I stick with the observation that EVERY Parelli horse I have seen is grumpy, unhappy and ears back[/color][color:RED] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


              My horse is NOT grumpy, unhappy nor does she have her ears back? Did she sound that way from my post? Come visit us anytime! Not to say she is NEVER grumpy but she is a warmblood mare - most of them have their grumpy moments from time to time!

              If she ever gets off stall, she is going to be a dressage horse. So, I have done and will continue to do non-Parelli stuff with her. But, the Parelli stuff really worked to get her started and lay a foundation for everything else. Not saying it is the only way to make a good horse. There are a million ways to make a good horse. Why put down what works for someone else and their horse?

              I haven't used it much for my other horses who are much more cooperative in their natural temperament. Just plain, basic handling has worked just fine for them. But, my 4-yr-old was really, really difficult when she hit 2 1/2 and needed something to engage her mind and make her respect humans. No chain over her nose or whip was going to do that for her. That kind of handling makes her worse, not better.

              I agree, lots of stuff they do I would never, ever even attempt. Galloping a horse into a moving trailer (although I have never seen this myself) IS a stupid thing to do. And I have no desire to ride my horse bridleless or jump picnic tables. I find Pat and Linda pretty irritating people. I found a local instructor to work with who was absolutely wonderful and then she referred me to the person who got my mare going under saddle. He is a FORMER Parelli certified colt starter and now is out on his own. He did a fabulous job with my mare.

              Comment


              • Ah, a little thing, but I don't see any problem jumping a picnic table. They aren't that big, generally (wide, yes, but not high). I used to jump them all the time on my event horses, for fun in Golden Gate Park, and seriously as part of a cross-country or stadium course. *Shrug*

                Comment


                • <span class="ev_code_BLUE">inca, It is great that this is working for you & your horse! I am only telling you my observations & I believe you when you say this works for you and that YOUR horse is happy and ears up.... </span>
                  <span class="ev_code_GREEN">I still, in my opinion, which if you have personally seen different than that is your opinion, though personally, I challenge anyone to watch the RFDTV show and watch the horses ears, in fact PP's horse was the most ears back one there. Practicing PNH and going by the levels is a good thing, for many people...and it is sometimes, for the people I met, the only thing that gets them excited and motivated to work their horses. ANd personally I think that is great and fine and perfect for them, it really is what they are looking for. Great. It is just the flat ear thingy and you cannot deny it, all of us can observe this thanks to Dish tv. Hard to argue with what we all can see on tv. Ears back, the ONLY one who wasnt ears back the whole time, was the mule, who I think did the best </span>
                  ~*Ride Far*~Ride Well~*~ The Sky's the Limit~
                  www.firstgiving.com/christinahyke

                  Comment


                  • But, Sandy M, jumping cross country (other than Beg. Novice stuff) scares me half to death so OF COURSE I'm not going to jump a picnic table!

                    Comment


                    • Well, Inca, when I boarded in Golden Gate Park - there wasn't much else to jump! Novice/Training/Prelim (where I stopped, though I did some Intermediate Combined Tests) - we needed SOMETHING to school over. We built jumps in quiet, off-trail areas: And then a "Honda Cop" tried to jump his motorbike over one (idiot!), broke his leg, and they ripped them all out. We then settled for jumping occasional logs, the spill way from the trout ponds (our "water jump"),on and off any embankments we could find, tree limbs (still attached to trees), and, of course, PICNIC TABLES. We even had a picnic table in-and-out and a picnic table "L" jump. Just what you get used to. That was in the '70s. I probably wouldn't do it now. ROFLOL

                      Comment


                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trakehners2000:

                        <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">[color:RED]As far as the trailer loading, I learned my method from John Lyons and it DOES work EVERY TIME ON EVERY HORSE. It is not original to PNH. My first impression of Parelli was a tape that a greenhorn just had to show me of him and ((YES ALL EARS WERE BACK)) and of him GALLOPING HIS HORSE ONTO A MOVING TRAILER---What an idiotic thing to do and what a danger to the horse...and for WHAT? Macho BS is what I think.</span> [/QUOTE]

                        Let me start by saying, I like a lot of the NH methods. That said, I do NOT like PP. For those who say that the naysayers are those who haven't tried it, well, I'm proof that you're wrong! I'm always up for learning something new.

                        JL's trailer loading method works like a dream, BUT, I decided to try the PP method. BAD idea! Did all the basics, tried his loading method and ended up in the hospital. Pissed off youngster cow kicked out of frustration (not at me), but wasn't paying attention to where he was kicking and guess who, after not having been kicked EVER, in 27 years of dealing with horses, got kicked? Yep, you got it, moi.

                        I've talked to a number of people about it since then. The PP people's response is "you must have skipped something or done it wrong"

                        Meanwhile, everyone else says "Yep, every single one of my boarders into the PP system has been hurt, usually pretty badly" or "the system never takes into account what happens when the volume of distractions around increases or the speed increases" or "they have accidents regularly, even at the Parelli facilities".

                        So, take my experience/opinions/info. for what it's worth and make your own decision. I CAN tell you that I get the same respect and obedience on the ground, in the trailer and in the saddle (arena and on trail) from some of the JL stuff, Clinton Anderson stuff and Jeff Griffith (watch for this guy, he's fantastic!)www.jeffgriffith.com

                        No tricks, no games, no gimmicks, no special equipment(except a rope halter,)just good horsemanship to obtain a safe horse, in a safe manner for both horse and handler/rider.

                        The only clinician I dislike nearly as much as PP is Monte Roberts.
                        www.sandbarequinetransport.com

                        Proud member of the ILMD[FN]HP and Bull Snap Haters Cliques

                        Comment


                        • Instead of a title of "Parelli training...what do you think??," my opinion would be "Parelli training...what were you thinking?!?!?!"

                          Comment


                          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Coreene:
                            Instead of a title of "Parelli training...what do you think??," my opinion would be __"Parelli training...what were you thinking?!?!?!"__ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            That's what my family was asking me as they stood around my hospital bed on X-mas 3 years ago! I'm fairly sure Mr. SBH burned that Parelli book!
                            www.sandbarequinetransport.com

                            Proud member of the ILMD[FN]HP and Bull Snap Haters Cliques

                            Comment


                            • OK, now while I will agree that at first glance a lot of things look pretty dangerous, there are plenty of people who think even being around horses at all is extremely dangerous. I, personally, had a ton of stupid, dangerous fun with my horse growing up. I did things with him that I'm sure would give about 90% of you heart attacks... and would still do it today, WITH THAT HORSE. Not with a single one of the other 20-some-odd horses that we currently own!

                              I could go on for days... and maybe we should start a "memory lane" post as "T" suggested, but I'll mention just a few so you can all see how stupid I was (but man, I had fun with this guy!)

                              Standing on him bareback (no halter, in a field)

                              Riding backwards (again, no halter,in a field)

                              Trying over and over to vault on over his butt, using milk cartons behind him,running up, jumping on milk carton, vaulting (missing, sliding off giggling)

                              Lying on the grass with the lead rope in my hand as he grazed and dried in the sun after a bath (I swear I fell asleep doing this sometimes)

                              Crawling under his belly

                              Lying down on his butt

                              Feeding him carrots, etc. directly out of my mouth while kneeling in front of him

                              Sitting on him bareback while friends stood in front of him and gave him the signal to rear

                              Standing in the bed of a pickup truck and asking him to put his front feed in the bed, too (which I have to mention, he would do)

                              Leading him down the steps of a swimming pool into the water (just please don't tell my aunt that I ever did that)

                              Swimming in the big pond, holding his mane and just letting him go

                              Oh, I could go on and on and on...

                              Point is... how many of you who are mentioning safety issues with Parelli's program can HONESTLY look back at your own childhood with horses and honestly NOT come up with a list similar to mine.... Huh??? I mean, really? Just some food for thought. Our "fun factor" typicaly decreases with age, but truthfully it's really there in all of us, deep down somewhere.
                              "Roguelet" in Indiana
                              www.Atalanta-Acres.com
                              Home of Indy Mood and Private Lap

                              Comment


                              • <span class="ev_code_BLUE">OKAY</span><span class="ev_code_PURPLE">That's it!! We are starting a memory post, crazy dangerous sad silly funny best memory, whatever- it is makes me smile much more reading about your memories than it does chatting about PNH, I'd much rather get memories like this in my in box than the PNH stuff, I will start the first one,,,, first time doing this... here goes...it will be posted in OFF COURSE </span><span class="ev_code_GREEN">Roguelet, I expect you to be the first poster!</span>
                                ~*Ride Far*~Ride Well~*~ The Sky's the Limit~
                                www.firstgiving.com/christinahyke

                                Comment


                                • blubay, I assume you were at one of those clinics?? The first thing that strikes me about any trainer is if the horse is pinning its ears. Its a shame more people dont question that at the clinics. I being an eventer, dont think picnic tables are bad, the rest, especially the wacking with the stick, is nuts! And I have seen it where they are hitting the side of the head, and the horse is freaking. And like someone else said Linda will tell them to keep going. No Thats Not the same principles as Dressage. The horses look Unhappy and irritated! Its hard to get past that. And Rougelet and Trakehners, we must be from the same Old Riding school! lol Mine was many moons ago, but I did alll that fun stuff, bareback jumping lanes, Eyes closed, Reins in a knot. Jumping with the Dollar under the thigh bareback. I used to think it was easier to jump and ride bareback back then! Uhh Not anymore! Too old. But boy did that woman give me the best foundation of my riding life! BTW she was the mother of an event rider who was a member of a world championship 3 day event team. And back then that meant nothing, the only thing I knew is that we had the utmost respect for her, and a bit of fear thrown in for good measure,

                                  Comment


                                  • Ever seen a horse pin his ears when he plays with another horse?

                                    Happens all the time. Hell I see more dressage horses with pinned ears, flicking tails and cranky expressions....pop over to the dressage forum...they had to create a flipping RULE that horses must appear happy...now that is something to ponder isn't it?

                                    Comment


                                    • For what it is worth, I have owned my horse for almost 14 years (since slightly before he turned 5), and he has NEVER, in my presence, nor in the presence of anyone else (I have asked people at my barn who are there when I am not) pinned or put his ears back in a distressed or unfriendly manner. A flick back to listen to something, sure. Slightly lop eared and relaxed at times. Yeah. But back? never. No matter what is asked of him. Even in distress his ears remain forward or at worst, drooping. It's just his nature, I am sure, and I don't make any general conclusions regarding general horse training from it, but it is interesting. When he fractured his coffin bone and was in great pain, and I was unable to get to any barn closer than my own to get a trailer, I had to walk him home, slow, painful steps for about a mile. The entire time, his ears were forward and focussed on me. I'm sure he'd be the low man on the totem pole in any pasture: When another horse squeals or bites at him with ears pinned, he gets away as quickly as he can with an ears up but pained expression: "What did I do?!?!?" It's quite a contrast to his predecessor, whom we called the "Dirty Dancing" horse - He had HIS space and you had YOUR space - and it better be respected. Basically, unless you had a task for him, he wanted to be left alone. He had impeccable ground manners, but expressed his annoyance at having to be obedient with pinned ears and bared teeth. However, he was totally gentle to ride, never pulled back, trailer loaded easily and was a fantastic jumper - for ANYONE. We put up with his "nasty" expression.

                                      Comment


                                      • The thing that bothered me most about the picnic table jumping was that most of the people who were there are usually new to the horse game. They go home and try this stuff. Of coarse, in the P way. No saddle,reins, or helmet. Those of you who jump all the time know the risks involved. Not sure why the Ps think it is such a great thing to do. Has any one heard of any lawsuits against the Ps yet?
                                        marty

                                        Comment


                                        • LMH:

                                          "Ever seen a horse pin his ears when he plays with another horse?

                                          Happens all the time. Hell I see more dressage horses with pinned ears, flicking tails and cranky expressions....pop over to the dressage forum...they had to create a flipping RULE that horses must appear happy...now that is something to ponder isn't it?


                                          You just don't give up do you, and as a lawyer you know that you must be able to support your argument.

                                          Unfortunate as it is, dressage is extremely popular with anyone and alot of yahoos.

                                          The unfortunate thing is that because of this popularity alot have used means of producing horses that are not correct. Gadgets are being used, and horses are being hurried through the levels. As long as the head is bent they are considered a dressage horse. They are pushed and forced into a position. It has been extremely difficult to watch this bastardized thing they profess to be dressage. It is embarrassing.

                                          Because of this there are quite a number of unhappy horses in the ring. I am still in hopes that the judges will once again reward dressage and severely mark those that have chosen to bastardize it.

                                          Please do not be so quick to discredit or inflame. You're not in the courtroom.

                                          Comment

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