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Parelli training...what do you think??

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  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LMH:
    I am the only person who has ever seen a non PNH trained horse pin its ears?

    I am trying to think if I have ever seen someone NOT training ala Parelli that didn't do a very good job training...

    or a NON PNH horse that was not well trained.

    Goodness....nope...must only be parelli horses.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">It is the consistancy with which Parelli horses seem to pin their ears. I have yet to see one that doesn't.</span>
    ~*Ride Far*~Ride Well~*~ The Sky's the Limit~
    www.firstgiving.com/christinahyke

    Comment


    • kaluha2-I couldn't agree with you more-I love classical dressage concepts and my library is full of every book I can get my hand on.

      That is precisely the reason Parelli has an appeal for me-the principles are very closely related-I presented this perspective on the LAST parelli thread in the dressage forum and was severely criticized.

      There is a wonderful Parelli student named stacie moyle that has a website and a talk interview on natural horse talk that weaves the concepts of classical dressage and Parelli-so I am quite sure in principle and concept we would agree.

      I have never said Parelli created these concepts-HE has never said he created these concepts-he accredits many horseman that came before him.

      What Parelli HAS done is package the material and broken it down into stages and steps, providing a home school training program so people can accomplish the goals without needing weekly lessons-not that that is a bad thing-but not always available to everyone.

      Then there are those people like me that the thrill comes in figuring it out on my own...I have had years of lessons and find the challenge of finding the answers myself more rewarding. Just my preference.

      As far as jumping bridleless-I don't expect the same response as I do from snaffle bit riding-as I mentioned in that post, if I can do it without then I can up the level with the communication offered from a snaffle bit.

      Also I watched the same RFD program today at 4pm and did not see anything you dsecribed Sannois-I saw the girl leading the horse by a rope around his back legs (she is David Lichman's daughter I believe, he is a 5star Parelli instructor so likely has a little experience around horses)---and I never saw the horse give any indication that he was endangering her-he was calm and responsive...didn't you ever walk under your horses belly as a kid? slide off his rump?

      So he called it "bob" wire---what does this have to do with anything?

      I saw the games-what exactly did you see that was scary? No horse spooked, ran away, behaved aggressively...I have seen schooling arenas at top shows that were more dangerous than anything on this show...site one example of an out of control or approaching out of control instance on the show-all horses responded politely to what was asked.

      And no I do not find him irritating-I find him to be very funny and entertaining.

      I have a very dear friend that trains her horses beautifully-she does not "do" parelli and has never bought a tape or book....however her principles are the same as his and many of those responding on this thread---patience and release from pressure to teach...not abusive, yet setting yourself as the leader.

      It isn't the be all end all-never said that...but it does provide information to those interested in learning how to train horses "naturally."

      For those of you born with this common sense, I commend you...some of us just needed some help and suggestions along the way.

      I am still just wondering-if all this is bunk, and so many people have so much common sense, why is there a training forum on this BB? For the same reason Parelli offers a training system...

      And at the end of the day, his entire system costs less than most people spend on lessons in a year or less.

      And finally kaluha2 glad you like my sig line

      Comment


      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trakehners2000:
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LMH:
        I am the only person who has ever seen a non PNH trained horse pin its ears?

        I am trying to think if I have ever seen someone NOT training ala Parelli that didn't do a very good job training...

        or a NON PNH horse that was not well trained.

        Goodness....nope...must only be parelli horses.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
        <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">It is the consistancy with which Parelli horses seem to pin their ears. I have yet to see one that doesn't.</span> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        Well then dahlink I invite you to my farm any day anytime then you can't say that anymore!

        Comment


        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by inca:


          My previously mentioned Parelli trained (to a certain extent) horse is a 4-yr-old warmblood mare that has been on STALL REST for over 2 months. She very quietly and politely walks out of her stall each day when I take her out for her 10-15 minutes of longeing and 20-45 minutes of hand grazing after the longeing. She does her longeing with a few bucks here and there on occasion but for the most part, she just politely trots around. She NEVER drags me or tries to come off her circle (and we are in the middle of my pasture, usually with at least one horse loose in the pasture.) She calmly eats grass after we are done with the longeing, even when my other horses are running and bucking and playing on the other side of the fence!

          My other mare has literally galloped past us close enough that I could touch her and my Parelli-trained mare who is on stall rest does not even flinch - just walks calmly beside me.

          She is on NO calming supplements and gets 3 pounds of grain and 8-10 flakes of hay per day.

          Please tell me how my horse is dangerous (I think slc called all Parelli people and horses dangerous), untrained, etc. Please tell me how the training methods have NOT worked. And please tell me with a straight face how every 4-yr-old warmblood on stall rest is perfectly well-behaved! I think there have been PLENTY of threads on COTH that would show a LOT of horses on stall rest go bonkers. (And trust me, this horse was a HANDFUL before we started the Parelli work. Go back to my other post - I totally agree with someone who LONG ago said that people who put down the method have never been desparate enough to try it.)

          <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Most horseowners with horses on stall rest are not so diligent as you. My horses have been on stall rest and been angels,too. Because I insist on good ground manners. It maybe the people that have such good luck with Parelli, do so because they were never taught how to teach their horses ground manners. All I can say about Parelli is that good for him, he wrote down basic logic for horseman 101 and marketed it as game. Good for him, he is bringing out things people basically should know and making it fun for the owner---STILL I stick with the observation that EVERY Parelli horse I have seen is grumpy, unhappy and ears back</span><span class="ev_code_RED">As far as the trailer loading, I learned my method from John Lyons and it DOES work EVERY TIME ON EVERY HORSE. It is not original to PNH. My first impression of Parelli was a tape that a greenhorn just had to show me of him and ((YES ALL EARS WERE BACK)) and of him GALLOPING HIS HORSE ONTO A MOVING TRAILER---What an idiotic thing to do and what a danger to the horse...and for WHAT? Macho BS is what I think.</span>
          ~*Ride Far*~Ride Well~*~ The Sky's the Limit~
          www.firstgiving.com/christinahyke

          Comment


          • This thread makes me . I was amazed after not being online a couple of days it was STILL at the top. Maybe if it had been the only thread about this subject, I could understand, but this seems to be a common occurance.

            Nobody is going to change anybody's mind about PNH here, I don't think. To each his/her own. Whatever.

            My only complaint is the people who judge PNH (or anything else) by coming in contact with a few people, or seeing an example one time... etc. Alot of us watched the Olympic Pentathalon riding portion this summer. We all pretty much agreed it was horrible riding, scary, ugly and abusive to the horses. So, is that a reflection on the skills of the jumping trainers that spent time with these athletes? I doubt it. I would not judge their skill level by the performances I saw in that ring and that was the OLYMPICS for pete's sake.

            I use PNH to the extent that I choose. I passed my Level 1 (with no cost to me), I have learned alot from it (and subsequent Level work). There is a Level 3 instructor in my town that is certified to teach through Level 2. I took one lesson from her three years ago and haven't been back. I'm sure she helps alot of people, but I wasn't one of them. LOL. Whatever. There are quite a few dressage, jumper trainers I haven't gone back to either. There are some out there that I disagree with as far as their training principles. That doesn't mean I lump ALL dressage and/or jumper trainers together and they all suck, or are losers, or are ridiculous.

            God knows there are wacky, obsessed, egotistical, 'think they know more than they do' horse people in every discipline and a whole lot more in no discipline at all. It amazes me that this topic generates so much heat every single time it comes up.

            So here's to some Peace for everyone. Merry Christmas. diana
            Life is short, do it now. www.dleestudio.com
            OTTB's
            My CANTER cutie, Steely Dan - IL
            My Exceller cutie, Ace (aka FiftyThreeCards)- NY

            Comment


            • kaluha2-I forgot one thing...regarding my enthusiasm...if you think I get all fluffy excited over THIS, I double dog dare you to start a thread on Barefoot Performance horses or why traditional saddles don't fit (aka why I love my Balance saddle).

              Comment


              • LMH - While good training, whatever the source, is always good training, I think that your (?) mare's behavior also ties to her innate nature. My App, at age 8, broke his hind leg - slipped on cement and fell awkwardly. He spent 8 months in his stall. Fortunately, the more severe fracture was only to the splint bone, and the cannon fracture was hairline. It missed the joint by less than an inch. He was hand walked 20 min a day and never blew up, or even offered to, although at about six months in,he expressed his pent-up energy by volunteering a Spanish Walk . After eight months, when he was given the okay to begin work under saddle, I saddled him up and rode him in his halter for 30 mins at the walk (and a gradually increasing program over a period of months). No ACE. He never put a foot wrong. When he reached the point of being able to truly "work" again, I put him into his regular snaffle. He is nearly 51% TB, by the way.

                Comment


                • LMH:
                  I love it when someone sticks to their guns!! However:

                  "I am still just wondering-if all this is bunk, and so many people have so much common sense, why is there a training forum on this BB? For the same reason Parelli offers a training system..."

                  Riding is not Rocket Science but the Nuances of riding come darned close. It is because of these nuances that training forums were born.

                  "I have a very dear friend that trains her horses beautifully-she does not "do" parelli and has never bought a tape or book....however her principles are the same as his and many of those responding on this thread---patience and release from pressure to teach...not abusive, yet setting yourself as the leader."

                  This my dear, is common sense. Some people have it oozing out of their ears while others must try to acquire it because life in and of itself, is very difficult without it.

                  "It isn't the be all end all-never said that...but it does provide information to those interested in learning how to train horses "naturally."

                  Naturally?? As opposed to what, unnaturally?? I think this might be where you are running into a wall with others because we have already established these methods are as old as the hills----just a new spin put on them. You even stated how PP feels about these methods:
                  "I have never said Parelli created these concepts-HE has never said he created these concepts-he accredits many horseman that came before him." Natural methods----their old methods used for many moons by those with common sense.

                  "kaluha2-I couldn't agree with you more-I love classical dressage concepts and my library is full of every book I can get my hand on.

                  That is precisely the reason Parelli has an appeal for me-the principles are very closely related-I presented this perspective on the LAST parelli thread in the dressage forum and was severely criticized.

                  There is a wonderful Parelli student named stacie moyle that has a website and a talk interview on natural horse talk that weaves the concepts of classical dressage and Parelli-so I am quite sure in principle and concept we would agree."

                  Ya know, I really like your enthusiam. You are a great communicator and I have enjoyed this conversation, but I feel this is where we part ways. I cannot begin to tell you how many years I have heard this same old yarn about other disciplines being "Just like Dressage"
                  or "Having the same principles and concepts" of dressage. I don't even argue the point anymore, now I just smile and nod because what took many years for me to learn, could never be explained in an hour.

                  Eventhough, I don't agree with you on this, I do agree that if you or anyone seems to feel this method or another works for you then continue on. Whatever it takes to keep your horse going confidently forward.

                  PS. Just make sure you don't put out an eye with those sticks! LOL!

                  Comment


                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                    Certainly there is SOMEONE on COTH that can pass these simple skills??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                    <span class="ev_code_BLUE">L2 I can crack a bull whip around my 4 yo Trakehner stallion and he stand like a rock... I'd say he passes that one.</span><span class="ev_code_GREEN">I would not want my horse to pivot off his forehand, though I am 100% sure that he would if I worked with him on it.</span><span class="ev_code_GREY">smell his tail for 10 seconds, yup.. he'll do that too...</span><span class="ev_code_BLUE">Yep. he does that one too, even at the piaffe/passage. Okay we are doing really well here</span> <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Horse follows within 3 ft. Yep he passes that one too</span><span class="ev_code_GREEN">Friendly game, yep he will do this too... hmm.. he IS a good boy, extra carrots for him!</span><span class="ev_code_RED">Grab my horses tongue... yep that too...</span><span class="ev_code_BLUE">I'm not finding anything here that my 4 year old Trakehner will not do... maybe a difficulty with flying changes, because we are not focused on that on a 4yo... though everything esle he can do.. Reading through this though... I was reminded of another thing common amoung Parelli horses and that is back problems in the horses, all the Parelli horses I have personally seen have NEGATIVE back development. I believe it is from not being worked through to the bit correctly, geez, a little lunging and dressge would do wonders for that. BTW my Stallion also bows, lays down, has the beginning of Spanish walk and is the only horse I have ever seen that learned to Piaffe and Passage at liberty- And do you know how he learned this? Like an earlier poster said, reward reward reward, it is not rocket science. And I think the fact that so many PNH horses are ears back and poorly muscled backs...is a problem that Parelli should address. Yes they do good, though yes they too, like all of us have still much to learn, and they too are gripping---LP has made offensive remarks against Trakehners, dressage, ect. SO don't be surprised that we are nipping back.</span>
                    ~*Ride Far*~Ride Well~*~ The Sky's the Limit~
                    www.firstgiving.com/christinahyke

                    Comment


                    • LMH:

                      I took a look at your web page and I believe that anyone that would take in an unwanted abused anything (horse, donkey, dog, cat, kid) just can't be all bad, even if you are a PP nut job! LOL! Only kidding.

                      Seems that you have done a great job with those unfortunate equines.

                      Comment


                      • Ahhh LMH if you thought that all looked safe and organized and not like a Mary Kay Seminar then we see things differently. The paint was cute, but he distinctly kicked out at the ropes, Even if he had not I would NEVER have a child do that, or anyone, I see no reason. As Kahula and Sandy have said much of what I feel and are better at the words, I will continue to watch Dennis Reis, for the calming effect and unoffensive way he has. She theres the difference right there, if you dont find PArelli Grating even if he weren't a horse person, I would find him loud and condescending. But different is what makes this great world go around. And I too have always felt the same as Kahula, I have only scratched the surface of Dressage, But it in no way compares, And I too will smile and nod and keep to myself! ~Peace~ And happy Holidays and god Bless!

                        Comment


                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roguelet:
                          I may not explain this well, but here goes: the levels program teaches you every technique and teaches the horse every response to that technique that anyone needs to train their horse to do any discipline in the highest level. Once you get above the lower foundation levels, he encourages you and even requires you to use the techniques that you have learned to teach your horse to excell in your chosen discipline. It's a group of levels knows as refinement, and it is where the training comes in for your various disciplines. You take the general "cues" for lack of a better word that you have learned through the levels, and use these cues to develop certain high level behaviors, just like any other training program. First you work on the basic cues, then you gradually refine those cues as you progress until you and your horse have reached the level that you strive for... whether that be dressage, reining, or galloping your horse into a moving trailer! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                          <span class="ev_code_RED">Roguelet, Somehow, the way you put it sounds so much better! Except the part about the moving trailer.
                          You don't sound like a Parelli verson of a Trekie, although I don't have much room to talk, I'm a Trakie (Trakehner enthusiast) and I'm a Dressagie (Dressage nut) and *sigh* I'm an endurance freek!</span> <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">We all have our own thing, it is just that I cring when I hear someone all excited about Parelli and see their horse with ears back and a poorly muscled back-- though I still do say, at least they have an outline to follow. This thread has made me realize that Parelli may have it's bad points, though it is Really Good for those that use it, I just hope that someday I see the horse with happy or relaxed ears more often and I'd like to see Parelli use some dressge to strenthen the horses correctly. In reality I'm VERY happy to see horses on tv, and to see happy owner and to see that it seems the horse industry is growing.</span>
                          ~*Ride Far*~Ride Well~*~ The Sky's the Limit~
                          www.firstgiving.com/christinahyke

                          Comment


                          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LMH:
                            Just to be clear-I am not saying there are not some Parelli nuts out there...but I have also met dressage nuts, and hunter nuts, and WP nuts...

                            I have shared why *I* like the program and why *I* find it successful.

                            Then again...maybe it isn't PNH at all...maybe I am just an incredbily talented horsewoman...something to think about I guess. Some women get all excited about nothing...and then marry him <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><span class="ev_code_BLUE">I enjoyed your reply, but then had to laugh at the signature, I had this visualization that the married thing was Parelli</span>
                            ~*Ride Far*~Ride Well~*~ The Sky's the Limit~
                            www.firstgiving.com/christinahyke

                            Comment


                            • I have people ask if I use natural horsemanship with my horses. I asked what is that? Well do you whisper to them? Yup, and I talk to them too. Do they respect your space? They do if they know whats good for them.

                              I ask the team in a whisper, I tell them what to do in a regular voice, and demand with a gruff bark followed shortly with a pop of the whip or a smack with a whiffle ball bat. Guess what? I use the same methods with the kids ask, tell, demand.

                              My mentor told me the greatest secret to working horses when I started. Two simple words, TIME and CONSISTANCY.
                              Lostfarming in Idaho
                              http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t...etPleasure.jpg

                              Comment


                              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roguelet:
                                Wow, that brought back memories. I remember jumping in grade school, there was one particular instructor who loved to make us jump with no reins. All the horses did it with no problems... this was WAY pre-Parelli, and I have never said nor will you ever hear me say that his way is the only way to do things (as a matter of fact, my current "trainer idol" if you want to call him that is Michael Richardson!) But it was funny to see us gals, one by one, ride toward a course, then drop the reins prior to the first jump and do "airplane wings in 2pt!" to work on our leg position and balance. Uugh... what memories! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><span class="ev_code_BLUE">Right? I know what you mean, when she said this I remembered the at first terror of this prospect of riding with NO stirrups and the reins in a knot-- then I remembered the rush and pride and gratitude to the instructor and esp. the horse that taught me I had wings-The horse was a grey appendix QH & the Trainer was Tami White.</span> <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Ah the memories...</span>
                                ~*Ride Far*~Ride Well~*~ The Sky's the Limit~
                                www.firstgiving.com/christinahyke

                                Comment


                                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sandy M:
                                  I THINK I finally convinced her that SHE was the spooky one, not her horse, but she has a new horse now - one that I have trail ridden with no problems with its previous owner - and she has informed me that the horse is "too spooky" to trail ride... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><span class="ev_code_BLUE">Just had to say that I enjoyed your post and you have a very good observation here. ..Maybe that is the whole point?? </span><span class="ev_code_GREEN">Maybe all these exercises are really to give these "Spooky" riders confidence. Makes sense, and it makes sense on how we all seem to see a majority of the PNH students look / act similar. It isnt de-spooking the horse so much as it is the rider? Good Point. I really do want to say, There is more good about PNH than bad, except I have to INSIST that the EARS back on the horses and teh poor back muscles are GRINDING on my nerves like nails to a chalk board. These people, LP PP should be smart enough to figure out there is a problem. </span>
                                  ~*Ride Far*~Ride Well~*~ The Sky's the Limit~
                                  www.firstgiving.com/christinahyke

                                  Comment


                                  • Hey enjoying this kids...for the first time this BB might actually be having a somewhat civil PNH discussion...must be the Christmas spirit.

                                    To clarify to kaluha-I can't take credit for the cute animals on the whisper ranch site...a lady named Shannon runs the farm and gives the critters wonderful lives...I am simply the low end attorney that helped them with the Not-For-Profit paperwork...I just like to give them a plug because they do good stuff

                                    And of course I will stick to my guns that the principles are those advocated by classical dressage-not a mirror image, but close enough for what I like to do.

                                    T-2000 there is actually a story behind that sig line...another time, another place

                                    and....did I leave any point untouched? Oh yes naturally-meaning working with the horses nature....and no using gadgets like tie-downs, etc....so from my observations there is a HECK of a lot of unnatural training going on....as well as natural training---certainly I don't mean to imply PNH cornered the market on that idea.

                                    Interesting little tidbit...in a recent PNH publication there is a picture with the Parelli's and a Mr. Zettl (perhaps the names rings a bell to the dressage ladies?)... he invited Parelli professional Karen Rohlf to give a demonstration at his farm during a recent clinic and the Parelli's joined them...perhaps he found something of value? Now there's a thought that could stop the presses on the dressage forum.

                                    And finally my darling kaluha---I may be perhaps one of your more normal Parelli nuts and I promise I don't bite too hard. I even bought a black carrot stick so I could blend at the hunters shows when I return...think it will be discreet enough

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                                    • oh loading on the moving trailer...come on live a little people! certainly this CAN'T be any worse than some big ole cross country course!

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                                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trakehners2000:
                                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sandy M:
                                        I THINK I finally convinced her that SHE was the spooky one, not her horse, but she has a new horse now - one that I have trail ridden with no problems with its previous owner - and she has informed me that the horse is "too spooky" to trail ride... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><span class="ev_code_BLUE">Just had to say that I enjoyed your post and you have a very good observation here. ..Maybe that is the whole point?? </span><span class="ev_code_GREEN">Maybe all these exercises are really to give these "Spooky" riders confidence. Makes sense, and it makes sense on how we all seem to see a majority of the PNH students look / act similar. It isnt de-spooking the horse so much as it is the rider? Good Point. I really do want to say, There is more good about PNH than bad, except I have to INSIST that the EARS back on the horses and teh poor back muscles are GRINDING on my nerves like nails to a chalk board. These people, LP PP should be smart enough to figure out there is a problem. </span> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        Ahhhhh T-2000 now you are getting somewhere...within the deep room of the cult members we learn that indeed PNH is a people training program-teaching people and giving the people the skills and confidence to "wrassle" these critters...you see people pass the levels...you can have a level 4 horse to work on your level 1-3 skills.

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                                        • OMG... I forgot about the reins being tied in a knot! This has been a trip down memory lane! I DO remember no stirrups quite well, though... yuk. I would rather ride bareback... the way they made us cross the leathers in front of the saddle always left a bulge right where I was trying to grip with my thighs... can you say bruise??? The "airplane 2pt" instructor also used to put a dollar between our leg and the saddle before doing any no-stirrup work, and told us if it was still there at the end of the lesson it was ours. She also used to yell "EMERGENCY DISMOUNT!" at any given time in a lesson and we were expected to fly out of the saddle. Thanks for the memories, folks...
                                          "Roguelet" in Indiana
                                          www.Atalanta-Acres.com
                                          Home of Indy Mood and Private Lap

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