Look at what you pay and then wonder why you can't get any good help. If you pay $10/hour for 35 hours a week and then multiply that by 52 weeks you would make an annual income of $18,200. And this probably does not include any benefits, sick days or anything else. In Canada that is below the poverty level as I must assume it is in the states. And all this to work with dangerouse animals, where injuries are common, working conditions are bad etc. Often people do this for the love of horses but to think of this as any way to get ahead are nuts. As a owner of horses I know the expense and the fine line between profit and expenses but do we really think that this is good pay for the job.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alagirl:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 3fatponies:
"A Fresh Mexican?" My, oh my....
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Oh get over it!
If I had said *hungry* it would have not sounded any better, you know hungry for the American dream, actually earn the money you get...
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Yeah, but that's assuming that working with horses is unskilled labor and akin to ditch-digging. It's not, and I wouldn't want someone handling my horses who didn't know anything about them. Maybe it's great money where you are, but it must not be where the OP is, or there wouldn't be a problem finding good help for it.
And btw, I am not P.C.--I am courteous. I don't mind offending people with my unpopular opinions, but I try to base them on individuals, not gross generalizations."If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." -Don Marquis
**CEO of the TQ "Learn How To Ride or MOVE OVER!!" Clique**Comment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horse watcher:
Look at what you pay and then wonder why you can't get any good help. If you pay $10/hour for 35 hours a week and then multiply that by 52 weeks you would make an annual income of $18,200. And this probably does not include any benefits, sick days or anything else. In Canada that is below the poverty level as I must assume it is in the states. And all this to work with dangerouse animals, where injuries are common, working conditions are bad etc. Often people do this for the love of horses but to think of this as any way to get ahead are nuts. As a owner of horses I know the expense and the fine line between profit and expenses but do we really think that this is good pay for the job. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
While you are right, wages for unskilled labor are not any higher! Here in the South-East, people go to work for a lot less, even with degrees and such. It's not paying your way and with 5.50$ being the legal minimum, you barely bring home ten grand! Not enough, to either live or die!
But that is where personal responsibility comes in, either go to school to get more money, or work two lousy jobs to make ends meet..
BTW for all those people, I have worked in the agricultural sector, and I have to say, I'd rather work allong side some Hispanics, than your everage minimum wage looser...they work you into the ground and think nothing of it, untill the job is done! My hat's off to them!
Nice refreshing change of pace compared to the locals where half was out on probabtion and the other half had outstanding warrants! My what fun when half your crew dives into the daisies when the Sheriff drives by!
BTW I am NOT PC, and hope I never will!
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Oh perfect, pay someone an insulting amount of money. Behave like a vile, arrogent racist F@#$^ to your barn help...and then turn them loose on your animals. Christ, behave like that to any of the lovely Mexican grooms that have worked so hard for so many folks and horses, day in, day out for years...and you ain't makin' it off the show grounds in one piece.
...and ESG, you pay MORE for occasional spot work than you do for fulltime help.
Shame on both of you.http://community.webshots.com/user/racetb
*Save The Prairie Dog*
\"Jean Louise, stand up. Your father\'s passing.\"Comment
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Well, it does seem a little cheap. We board horses at our farm, and I get $3 a stall to clean, so that would be $21 right there. Plus the time. The stalls get picked once a day (or night when in at night) and cleaned once a day. Even so, I have to plan at least about 2 hours to clean 5 stalls, clean water buckets, hay and bring in or out. It can go up to 3 hours, and that is me working at a pretty good pace, with most of the stalls fairly neat. (Some of the horses do trash them.) It takes me at least 10-15 minutes to clean a stall, and then extra time for hay, water, bringing in.\"I never play horseshoes \'cause Mother taught us not to throw our clothes around,\" ~ Mr. EdComment
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Wow!
Some of you people are well paid for barn labor.
I was getting paid $1 per stall for stall cleaning. That included picking the stall, putting in new bedding and sweeping up the barn when I was done.Comment
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For a buck a stall, I think you should revolt....
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." -Don Marquis
**CEO of the TQ "Learn How To Ride or MOVE OVER!!" Clique**Comment
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Here in Ontario, minimum wage is around $7.65 /hour. I consider barn help need to have to know something about handling horses. These guys are big and can easily cause trouble just leading them in. I respect that most people who handle horses have a lot of knowledge and the hours stink. My daughter did this job part-time for the last 4 years and is looking to another career now even though she loves horses. As we have a number of horses of our own, the possiblity of riding is not of interest to her as she has too many to ride now.Comment
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When I worked a large barn, I was paid $35 a day to feed 50 horses (inside and out) t/o, muck 21 stalls, bring in and feed all the horses again. I've since moved and learned that it has gone up to $50. On days I didn't work, the BO fed and had someone else muck, paid them $7 an hour and put a cap on the time there at 3 hours for 21 stalls.
When I first moved up here, I worked part of my board off by turning out AMs, feeding and mucking eight stalls at minimum wage ($7.17 or something like that). A bigger barn in my area was paying $1 a stall, and that is mucking and rebedding. Now that I own my place, I offer boarder the option of mucking out paddocks (NOT stalls, I loff mucking stalls
) for $5 an hour to work off some board. Ridiculously low pay you may say, but it's a ridiculously easy job. No brain power needed, no fine motor skills required.
I think ESG's pay was fine, but the person working doesn't want to waste the gas $ for two hours worth of work. Perhaps offering the job to a boarder would be better?
I'm not sure where everyone else lives, but can I come muck your stalls? Beats dealing with my coworkers, hell I shovel it there too!COTH's official mini-donk enabler
"I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." AlagirlComment
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That's about the number of horses and pens/stalls I was turning out, feeding the hay, cleaning up, and keeping water up for, for ourselves, this summer when everybody was on half time drylot. This included spot applications of ointment or insect repellant, and flymasks. Two hours,tractor the manure out to the pile, AND sweep the aisle and tidy up? Hah. No way.
Do it for somebody else for $17 and drive to it? Nope. Ain't happening. Most people can muck a stall...few have enough brains to lead a horse safely out to pasture. Welcome to the world of inflation.Comment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> When my boarder comes out and does this routine-when the horses are in, for 7 stalls, buckets, t/o & feed (food prepared) it takes about 2 hours, and I allow for $20 credit. $10/hour. And, she comes to the barn anyway to ride (or should have it in her plans anyway ). When it is feed only, horses have been out, it takes about 30 minutes to do the routine, but I still allow $10. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ditto! I pay $20 to feed 7 horses, t/o and clean 6 stalls. Stalls only is $10 and feed and t/o only is $10. Last time I went out of town I paid a bit more due to the gas inflation at the time. But this is one reason why I pay by the job and not by the hour. I'd love to pay more, good help is priceless, but to do so I'd have to up what I charge for board....
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Racetb:
Oh perfect, pay someone an insulting amount of money. Behave like a vile, arrogent racist F@#$^ to your barn help...and then turn them loose on your animals. Christ, behave like that to any of the lovely Mexican grooms that have worked so hard for so many folks and horses, day in, day out for years...and you ain't makin' it off the show grounds in one piece.
...and ESG, you pay MORE for occasional spot work than you do for fulltime help.
Shame on both of you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I take it the untold explicits are directed towards me (and once more I am labled for telling the way it is, never mind how I actually feel about it...)
Fact of the matter is the lovely *Mexicans* I am treating so badly have a 1000% better work ethic than your average Joe from around here. So, where am I racist?!
Sorry Hon, as my handle/nickname states, I am in the deep, DEEP south, Alabama rounds most category of anything out way in the bottom...wages are as low as the South is Deep!
And where do I need to be asamed of this - other than that I haven't moved yet, that is.
I have to deal with the same low wages on my end, try to squeeze blood out of a turnip, babe, it ain't gonna happen!
But the problem of the OP, the SOB didn't do the job he agreed to do, sorry, no excuse, I will come down on you like a ton of bricks, and I don't care if you are from South, North, East or West of the Border or purple with green polka dots!Comment
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I've done a countless number of temporary barn-help jobs like this over the years, for people who were going away or had gotten hurt, etc. If you want someone who's thorough and even a little knowledgeable, you simply have to pay enough to make it worth their while. And it helps not to act like a jerk. If I were the worker, who did YOU a favor by agreeing to come out for so little time and money, only to have you bitching me out for leaving half an hour early or whatever, I would have been straight out the door too.
For your situation, it sounds like a boarder or a nearby teenager would be your best bet - someone who would be around anyway, and would be willing to help you out."A canter is a cure for every evil." -Benjamin DisraeliComment
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Okay, had to self-edit for excess snark.**charter member Alligator Arms Clique**Comment
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Alagirl, I'm certain the "fresh Mexicans" will be thrilled with your condescension. Thrilled to know you prefer them to white trash parolees and have no qualms with feeling entitled to pay below minimum wage....and I believe the worker in question DID speak up directly to ESG, which is more than I would have done! Doesn't anyone else find this mindset [and post] offensive and disturbing beyond words?http://community.webshots.com/user/racetb
*Save The Prairie Dog*
\"Jean Louise, stand up. Your father\'s passing.\"Comment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cornbread:
Okay, had to self-edit for excess snark. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I wish you hadn't--that was the funniest thing I have read all day!
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." -Don Marquis
**CEO of the TQ "Learn How To Ride or MOVE OVER!!" Clique**Comment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Racetb:
Alagirl, I'm certain the "fresh Mexicans" will be thrilled with your condescension. Thrilled to know you prefer them to white trash parolees and have no qualms with feeling entitled to pay below minimum wage....and I believe the worker in question DID speak up directly to ESG, which is more than I would have done! Doesn't anyone else find this mindset [and post]
offensive and disturbing beyond words? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yep...."If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." -Don Marquis
**CEO of the TQ "Learn How To Ride or MOVE OVER!!" Clique**Comment
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Bless you 3fatponies
http://community.webshots.com/user/racetb
*Save The Prairie Dog*
\"Jean Louise, stand up. Your father\'s passing.\"Comment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Racetb:
Oh perfect, pay someone an insulting amount of money.
<span class="ev_code_BLUE">I'm sorry that seems like "an insulting amount of money" to you. Around here, minimum is what you get in Burger King or McDonalds, and it ain't even close to $8.50. One of my students, who works as a seating hostess at the local Chili's, gets $6/hour and is grateful for it. And she works a lot more hours and is a lot less happy with her environment than if she were at the barn with her horse and me.</span>
Behave like a vile, arrogent racist F@#$^ to your barn help...and then turn them loose on your animals. Christ, behave like that to any of the lovely Mexican grooms that have worked so hard for so many folks and horses, day in, day out for years...and you ain't makin' it off the show grounds in one piece.
<span class="ev_code_BLUE">And if this man were one of those wonderful Mexican grooms that we've all encountered (which his brother was, who worked for me until this July), I'd agree with you. But, as Alagirl very correctly surmised, he thought he had me over a barrel and tried to take advantage. He's been working for me for three weeks, had absolutely NO trouble getting the work done in 1 1/2 hours, and now is holding me up for more money but no more work? Sorry, but I'll do the work myself. </span>
...and ESG, you pay MORE for occasional spot work than you do for fulltime help.
<span class="ev_code_BLUE">This wasn't to have been a temporary situation. His wife is pregnant and he wants extra money to save. Commendable, but that doesn't mean he can extort more money for no more work and have me continue to employ him. And considering he's making a minimum of $500 weekly with no taxes and no bennies taken out? Sorry, but there are lots of folks around here that make a hell of a lot less than that. Guess the answer is just to "go legal", pay bennies, and minimum wage. And then you'll get NO help.
</span>
Shame on both of you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Bullshit. Shame on me for sticking to a bargain I made? That this piece of cheese didn't have a problem with until today? He's been working for me for three weeks; if he REALLY had a problem with the work or the hours, I doubt he'd have finished his chores EARLY and gone to his next job.
Oh, and just to clarify; this person DOES NOT feed. All he does is muck seven stalls (which I've seen him accomplish in 45 minutes), turn four horses out (walking not quite 100 feet to the furthest turnout ), and fill water buckets. When I'm healthy, I can get that done in under two hours. I (correctly) assumed that a healthy, 30ish man could work at least as fast as a 40ish woman with health issues that prevented her from doing the work in the first place. </span>
In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
A life lived by example, done too soon.
www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/Comment
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[Deep breath]..EXTORT more money from you????!!!..and how is he earning $500 tax free from you for a couple of hours @ $8.50????...and it's NOT MacDonalds..It's someone handling YOUR ANIMALS. I am one of the easiest going h/j person[s] on this forum and quick with a joke, but you two have truly left me with an awful, bereft feeling in my gut. I've got to bow out of this one.http://community.webshots.com/user/racetb
*Save The Prairie Dog*
\"Jean Louise, stand up. Your father\'s passing.\"Comment
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