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Bill to ban slaughter passes in Illinois, signed by Gov. 5/24 - update p. 27

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  • http://www.kaufmanzoning.net/horsemeat/foiarecords.htm
    Here are the so called STRICTLY REGULATED transport to slaughter violations.
    US violations.

    What was the pro slaughter side doing to help all of the horses that were being shipped for all of these years to Mexico & Canada before the US plants closed????????

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
      Dahling, read the numbers right: The number of horses who went from regulated slaughter in the US to largely unregulated ends in Mexico has rissen 5 times...You rejoice over that? You are strange!

      I *think* what LUVMYTBS is saying, is that we are five months into this year, and the TOTAL number of horses slaughtered ...all added together...so far appear to be about 10%-20% of last year's overall total of 100,000 (if that number is correct).

      Meaning that she would have expected that five months into this year, the number slaughtered so far would have been higher - closer to 40,000 to 50,000.

      At least that's how I read her post..... I do not know if these numbers are correct or not....

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Dalfan View Post
        A lifetime of service (weather riding or breeding or whatever) deserves more than a hammer to the head.
        It's a very human sentiment to assert that a shot is more humane than a bullet or captive bolt to the brain. Somehow, we perceive that one is 'undignified' or more painful, regardless of the fact that we cannot hope to have first-hand experience. How can we establish which is better?

        I realise you're probably speaking exclusively about slaughter, but that's not what this phrase said. There are many people who donate their horses to large animal reserves, to make their horses useful after death, giving life to other animals. Are these people forcing their animals to die in an 'undignified' manner?

        Anyway. I haven't read the whole thread. I'm just not that interested in seeing the same insults from the usual suspects. I hope that, whatever happens, we find a good solution, not just the easily-obtained, woefully inadequate one. Many, many things need to happen in order for this ban to be meaningful.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by kcgold View Post
          I *think* what LUVMYTBS is saying, is that we are five months into this year, and the TOTAL number of horses slaughtered EVERYWHERE (here, Mexico, Canada)....all added together...so far is only about 10%-20% of last year's overall total of 100,000 (if that number is correct).

          Meaning that she would have expected that five months into this year, the number slaughtered so far would have been higher - closer to 40,000 to 50,000.

          At least that's how I read her post....
          Huh... what a strange way to read the numbers. When you're dealing with an import/export market, time of year is important. The fact that, for this timespan, we've quadrupled export is very significant.

          But it's true what they say - statistics can make anyone right.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by kcgold View Post
            I *think* what LUVMYTBS is saying, is that we are five months into this year, and the TOTAL number of horses slaughtered ...all added together...so far appear to be about 10%-20% of last year's overall total of 100,000 (if that number is correct).

            Meaning that she would have expected that five months into this year, the number slaughtered so far would have been higher - closer to 40,000 to 50,000.

            At least that's how I read her post..... I do not know if these numbers are correct or not....
            Well then she's still bad at math- the numbers I quote are only those for Mexico. I can't find any accounting for the numbers sent to Canada, and have no idea how many were slaughtered within the US this year. So it would be a huge stretch of logic to say that the overall number this year, all told, is any less than it was last year.

            The only thing my numbers tell you is that nearly five times the number of american horses have been sent to Mexico for slaughter than were sent last year. You can't get anything else from that number, so saying it's 10% of last year's total is... well, do I need to say it?
            "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

            My CANTER blog.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Paragon View Post
              Huh... what a strange way to read the numbers. When you're dealing with an import/export market, time of year is important. The fact that, for this timespan, we've quadrupled export is very significant.

              But it's true what they say - statistics can make anyone right.

              I understand that, and I edited MY post to say that I don't know if the numbers are correct.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                Originally posted by caffeinated View Post
                Well then she's still bad at math- the numbers I quote are only those for Mexico. I can't find any accounting for the numbers sent to Canada, and have no idea how many were slaughtered within the US this year. So it would be a huge stretch of logic to say that the overall number this year, all told, is any less than it was last year.

                The only thing my numbers tell you is that nearly five times the number of american horses have been sent to Mexico for slaughter than were sent last year. You can't get anything else from that number, so saying it's 10% of last year's total is... well, do I need to say it?
                10,679/2.525 = 4.229 - not nearly 5

                Horses slaughtered in the US in 2006,2007 from
                http://www.nass.usda.gov/QuickStats/PullData_US.jsp

                Through end of March, by which time all three US SHs were shut down

                2006 21,027
                2007 15,173

                Through mid May, adding in 1,500 estimated for resumption of 10 days or so of Cavel back in operation

                2006 35,111
                2007 16,673

                Unless exports to Canada have increased significantly - up from the 326/week averaged in 2005 - fewer US horses have wound up in a SH thus far in 2007, either in US or in MX.


                Also from the figures linked to above....

                avg/week in January, 2007 - 1,666
                avg/week in Feb, Mar 2007 - 1,064 (when only Cavel was operating)

                looks like Cavel has been doing the bulk (64%) of the US slaughter

                Comment


                • Thank you RDR and all who understood my math.
                  And now that Cavel will be shut down again, none will be slaughtered in the USA and the SH's in MX and Canada cannot pick up the entire slack (which BTW is based on demand). As we know, the SH's in Canada, after Cavel closed here recently, were no longer taking horses because they were above capacity.

                  And why try to use statistics in order to justify keeping slaughter legal in this country, at this point, makes no sense to me.

                  More important at this point is to get the Federal Ban passed, then you won't be able to show any statistics for export, period.
                  ************************
                  \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                  Comment


                  • Slaughter figures 2007 (through May 12)

                    US 15,879 MX 10,679 Canada 7,274 total = 23,832

                    Slaughter figures 2006 (through May 12)

                    US 33,035 MX 2,431 Canada 5,961 total = 41,427

                    Total decrease in horse slaughter for 2007 **** 17,595 horses.
                    www.horse-protection.org

                    No Horses to Slaughter Clique

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Paragon View Post
                      It's a very human sentiment to assert that a shot is more humane than a bullet or captive bolt to the brain. Somehow, we perceive that one is 'undignified' or more painful, regardless of the fact that we cannot hope to have first-hand experience. How can we establish which is better?
                      If you can dig through the AVMA or AAEP's web sites carefully (ignoring any proslaughter propaganda that may exist), look for things like their dealing with major disaster information where it outlines what is/isn't the best choice. Chemical euth seems to be their first choice on all the documents I've found. Second choice for humane destruction of a horse when injection isn't an option is a properly placed bullet. Captive bolt is either not recommended or doesn't appear as an option.

                      There are many people who donate their horses to large animal reserves, to make their horses useful after death, giving life to other animals. Are these people forcing their animals to die in an 'undignified' manner?
                      Sorry if I don't understand the reference. What people do with their horse's dead carcass is up to them.

                      Anyway. I haven't read the whole thread. I'm just not that interested in seeing the same insults from the usual suspects. I hope that, whatever happens, we find a good solution, not just the easily-obtained, woefully inadequate one. Many, many things need to happen in order for this ban to be meaningful.
                      What is a good solution?

                      Why wouldn't this ban be meaningful? Isn't the end of suffering and unnecessary death of tens of thousands of horses meaningful? Or are you tying it in with other issues like supply/demand or neglect/abandonment?
                      Veterinarians for Equine Welfare

                      Comment


                      • It's a very human sentiment to assert that a shot is more humane than a bullet or captive bolt to the brain.
                        I should have been clearer. I'm talking about the whole nightmare process that slaughter-bound horses endure. From the auctions, to the brutality of the transport process, to the horrific end.
                        *** 4 More Years ***
                        *** 4 More Years ***

                        Comment


                        • "The only thing my numbers tell you is that nearly five times the number of american horses have been sent to Mexico for slaughter than were sent last year. You can't get anything else from that number, so saying it's 10% of last year's total is... well, do I need to say it?"

                          So this means that all of these horses that went to Mexico suffered horrors that
                          no one wants to think or deal with. This is just fine with you "humane" people!
                          The government inspected plants in the U.S. are extremely diligent about post mortum and anti mortum care of the horses and can shut the plants down in a minute if they observe the least violation of humane slaughter.

                          Do you really believe that the horses sent to Mexico were under humane supervision? Probably hung up by one foot and throats cut or some equally horrifying scenario! Your "humane" lobbyists" have sentenced thousands of horses to this kind of action. Either dying in Mexican slaughter plants with little or no regard for humane methods OR starving to death in someone's barn or back yard. You haven[t seen anything yet--just wait!
                          www.shagyasport.com

                          Comment


                          • [QUOTE=LCR;2440246 Either dying in Mexican slaughter plants with little or no regard for humane methods OR starving to death in someone's barn or back yard. You haven[t seen anything yet--just wait![/QUOTE]

                            I still don't understand this argument, and I seem to see it over and over ....why is it assumed that every horse who would have gone to slaughter, will now starve to death in someone's yard, if/when slaughter is banned?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by LCR View Post
                              Probably hung up by one foot and throats cut or some equally horrifying scenario!
                              Last I checked that is exactly the way it was done here as well.
                              ************************
                              \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                              Comment


                              • Why do some of the anti slaughter people assume anyone whos pro slaughter doesn't care about horses? Theres plenty of assumptions that make no sense from that side also.
                                Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                Comment


                                • Unfortunately WE have no control over in which order our government votes on and passes bills. So the Texas and Illinois bills passed before the Federal Ban.

                                  Now wouldn't it be great if all the pro-slaughter folks on COTH would show us how TRULY concerned they are about the welfare of our horses, and support a Federal Ban so we don't have to discuss export numbers in the future.

                                  Agenda or Horses?
                                  ************************
                                  \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                                  Comment


                                  • Sorry but I can't support something I feel will make it worse. I wouldn't think you'd want anyone to either regarless which side of an issue they are on.
                                    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by county View Post
                                      Why do some of the anti slaughter people assume anyone whos pro slaughter doesn't care about horses? Theres plenty of assumptions that make no sense from that side also.
                                      County - believe it or not, you and I have something that we can agree on!

                                      Cheers!

                                      Comment


                                      • Oh I have no doubt theres many things we'd agree on I know the anti slaughter people I deal with everyday do.
                                        Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
                                          Agenda or Horses?
                                          Good question

                                          Comment

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