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Bill to ban slaughter passes in Illinois, signed by Gov. 5/24 - update p. 27

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  • Now it's actually going to cost people to get them euthanized and disposed
    of
    From the article in Tribune.

    Maybe one shouldn't own horses if the cost of euthanasia & disposal ($400-500) is so financially burdensome. A lifetime of service (weather riding or breeding or whatever) deserves more than a hammer to the head.

    Whatever "improvements" to the "humane" horse slaughter process that have been made over the years, have come about because the slaughter industry has been FORCED to make the changes. Not by any supposed concern for the horses on their part.

    And you cannot convince me that the killer haulers and the kill plant workers can't spot a pregnant mare. Just as long as she is not giving birth when she goes in the box, it must be ok.
    *** 4 More Years ***
    *** 4 More Years ***

    Comment


    • Originally posted by county View Post
      ROTFLMAO so the people on here who said they'd push to ban veal are liars? I'm also a cattle farmer so whats your point?

      BTW yesterday you were whining how people shouldn't post any more on these threads, today your back to the typical anti slaughterr stance of name calling. Can't make up your mind?
      OH MY GOD!!YOU REALLY ARE A NINCOMPOOP.
      Like I said before..there is no intelligent discussion on these threads.PERIOD
      I am here purely for the fun of poking you with a stick.

      Comment


      • Like I said your the typical anti slaughter person I'm sure there all proud to have you with them.
        Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by tbtrailrider View Post
          OH MY GOD!!YOU REALLY ARE A NINCOMPOOP.
          Like I said before..there is no intelligent discussion on these threads.PERIOD
          I am here purely for the fun of poking you with a stick.
          Really? Well, gosh, that's pretty much the definition of trolling, now isn't it?

          If you can't play nice, don't play. And if you are unable to actually form a coherent argument, and must instead resort to calling people names, leave.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by LessonLearned View Post

            Even if we have different ideas about slaughter the common thread here is that we all (presumably) care about horses and their welfare (i.e. we don't want them to be slaughtered, abused, neglected, sent to Mexico). What we lose sight of here while we are scratching each others' eyes out there is an industry who doesn't really care what we have to say.

            The slaughter industry for so long has operated with reckless abandon, assuming that most American could care less about how their meat got to the table -- they just want it to get there. Suddenly, in a shocking move, people started to care about animals differently and the industry couldn't operate the way it once did. Good god, people were paying attention and pesky humane changes needed to be made!

            NOW, some upstarts come along and say that they don't want a specific group of animals slaughtered. Banning slaughter matters to many of us because we love horses. The slaughter industry doesn't care about horses. It doesn't care about the abuse and neglect of unwanted horses.

            If horse slaughter were banned tomorrow, profit wise, it probably wouldn't mean much to the slaughter industry in the grand scheme of things. Yes, some kill buyers might be impacted, some people might have to get new jobs, etc but to the overall industry those people are no big deal. What IS a big deal is that there would be an unprecidented limitation on an industry that, in their minds, could have sweeping implications down the road.

            What if this change leads to other changes? Now, of course, the slaughter industry wants to scare you with the idea that next thing you know they will ban the slaughter of cows and we will all be eating lettuce for the rest of our lives. This is not going to happen. It is much more likely that this might open the door to further restrictions that might impact the industry on a greater financial and practical level.

            For many of US, horse slaughter is a moral issue. For the INDUSTRY, it is a very practical one. We would do well to remember this on both sides. While the industry may do a "good" job parrotting the rhetoric of "unwanted horses" and the need for "horse harvesting" for the greater good of equines and their owners, we must remember that "care" for horses is not their concern or their goal (e.g. horses are meat on the hoof not animals worthy of respect or even decent treatment). A focus on care for horses is only their rhetorical means to tap into a certain segment of the horse industry. It is only care and concern for their own necks that drive them.
            WELL SAID! My feelings are quite like your own. I see the banning of horse slaughter having the positive side effect of improving conditions for all animals.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by xegeba View Post
              oh my god... thank you so much for the 101 in Economics...

              I didn't think it was that advanced, really...

              And I do feel the same way about the hogs and sheep. As I have stated time and again, the transport and slaughter process needs to get an overhaul, for ALL SPECIES! I usually get shot down on that, because 'this is a horse BB'...

              @County stop feeding the troll!

              Comment


              • Perhaps we do not share the same definition of the word "delicacy". To me - an expensive meal is an expensive meal. Something that I cannot afford every day. I never said horsemeat was cheap. Actually - no one has.

                A delicacy, to me, would be something very rare and difficult to find, that there isn't much of, or that is reserved only for the very very upper echelons of society due to the exorbitant cost.

                Sorry - horsemeat doesn't fit that description. Personally - I don't care if the meat is used to feed the poor or rich. Exploiting the class issues does everyone a disservice. If horse slaughter is inhumane - who eats the meat is irrelevant.

                Again, you must not assume that there is no interest or advocacy on animal welfare issues from within the ag community. My "concern" is more than concern - but I do not see any point in making my life an open book for strangers on the Internet.

                If you want to learn what is going on in the grand scheme of things, try searching on thins like "animal science". Go to university extension sites and read up on all the engineering studies, research and all the other things they're doing on to improve animal welfare. There are entire sciences devoted to nothing else but animals - improving every facet of their existence - and trying to find a balance between using them for fibre and food - and the animals health and welfare.

                Are mistakes made? Of course. Attempts to improve swine production inadvertently caused some problems in swine genetics. Antibiotic use is resulting in some unforeseen consequences. That is the nature of things - no one can see the future. But as far as animal agriculture goes - the information is legion. And there is a lot of focus on health and welfare.







                Originally posted by kcgold View Post
                it may not be a "delicacy", but (if my math is correct) it appears to be around $8.00 a pound from the figures quoted earlier in this thread. That probably isn't cheap, either?
                Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                -Rudyard Kipling

                Comment


                • Originally posted by J Swan View Post
                  Perhaps we do not share the same definition of the word "delicacy". To me - an expensive meal is an expensive meal. Something that I cannot afford every day. I never said horsemeat was cheap. Actually - no one has.
                  not true....check the bottom of post #97.

                  Originally posted by J Swan View Post
                  But as far as animal agriculture goes - the information is legion. And there is a lot of focus on health and welfare.
                  I'm very aware that there is great focus on animal health and welfare, but I asked about concerns in the ag industry regarding a specific area (hogs and sheep going to slaughter in Mexico), because it has bearing on the arguments used by the pro horse slaughter side.

                  Comment


                  • I see your point. This is the problem with gross generalizations - because it depends on the country, the market, the laws - and how horsemeat has been viewed through history. It's not fair of me to make gross generalizations either - but I truly do not accept the "delicacy" idea. I've lived in Europe - have family there and I visit. It's just not a delicacy. I don't know how more plainly to put it. Some things are expensive, some things are not, some taxes are high, some are not. Just like in the US or any other country.


                    What you are getting into is more of an international law and policy arena. I don't think you're going to find any experts on that subject on this BB. It's not specific to slaughter - and since we can't manage to do anything but call each other names - perhaps these links can help you find the information you're looking for. Personally - I never bother trying to find reliable information on any activist website - of any sort.

                    http://www.nationalaglawcenter.org/

                    http://www.agriculture.com/ag/news/

                    http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/usdah...navid=NEWSROOM

                    Not intended to be an exhaustive list of sources - just something to get you started. Hope this helps answer your questions - or leads you to ask some more.


                    Originally posted by kcgold View Post
                    not true....check the bottom of post #97.

                    What you are getting into is more of an international law and policy arena. I don't think you're going to find any experts on that subject on this BB. It's not specific to slaughter - and since we can't manage to do anything but call each other names - perhaps these links can help you find the information you're looking for. Personally - I never bother trying to find reliable information on any activist website - of any sort.

                    http://www.nationalaglawcenter.org/

                    http://www.agriculture.com/ag/news/

                    http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/usdah...navid=NEWSROOM

                    Not intended to be an exhaustive list of sources - just something to get you started.

                    I'm very aware that there is great focus on animal health and welfare, but I asked about concerns in the ag industry regarding a specific area (hogs and sheep going to slaughter in Mexico), because it has bearing on the arguments used by the pro horse slaughter side.
                    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                    -Rudyard Kipling

                    Comment


                    • congratulations on the state ban passage.

                      Now we have more of this to look forward to:

                      Horses to MX (slaughter)
                      week ending 5/17- 1,519
                      Last week- 383
                      This year to date- 10,679
                      Last year at this time- 2,525

                      Way to go! Maybe we'll break another record next week!
                      "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

                      My CANTER blog.

                      Comment


                      • I'd kind of like

                        Originally posted by county View Post
                        ROTFLMAO so the people on here who said they'd push to ban veal are liars? I'm also a cattle farmer so whats your point?

                        BTW yesterday you were whining how people shouldn't post any more on these threads, today your back to the typical anti slaughterr stance of name calling. Can't make up your mind?
                        to know that too tbtrailrider? Yesterday on the other thread you told me I was above this and you too, otherwise we would just be those angry people behind a computer. Now you are back here at it again??

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by caffeinated View Post
                          congratulations on the state ban passage.

                          Now we have more of this to look forward to:

                          Horses to MX (slaughter)
                          week ending 5/17- 1,519
                          Last week- 383
                          This year to date- 10,679
                          Last year at this time- 2,525

                          Way to go! Maybe we'll break another record next week!
                          Thanks for the numbers. Since we are five months into this year, 10% of last year's total slaughter doesn't look so bad if you actually look at the big picture.

                          Rome wasn't built in a day.

                          On to the Federal Ban!
                          ************************
                          \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
                            Thanks for the numbers. Since we are five months into this year, 10% of last year's total slaughter doesn't look so bad if you actually look at the big picture.

                            Rome wasn't built in a day.

                            On to the Federal Ban!

                            Dahling, read the numbers right: The number of horses who went from regulated slaughter in the US to largely unregulated ends in Mexico has rissen 5 times...You rejoice over that? You are strange!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by J Swan View Post
                              Starving people are still going to starve - that's for sure.

                              But this "delicacy" argument pi**es me off. It's not true. Horsemeat is no more or less a delicacy than any other meat. Prices fluctuate just like other meats - based on the demand/supply, as well as cuts.

                              There are great reasons to end horse slaughter - but please stop using this one. It's just not accurate - and when people bring it up - all I can think of is that they need to check the prices instead of believing everything they read on an advocate's website.

                              This isn't slaughter related - I get ticked when people don't independently verify their information.

                              Sorry - back to what appears to be another train wreck..... continue on....
                              Yikes I come back a day later and find a simple statement I made really sent some people out of the ballpark. I was merely referring to trailhorse1's statement about the starving people who will now suffer because they can't get horsemeat:

                              Originally Posted by trailhorse1
                              "How Sad! Maybe you and I and millions of other people would not eat horse meat, but there are millions of other people who would. Maybe not by choice but many millions of people are starving in the world."

                              I am from Europe and my entire family is still there. The Europeans do not eat meat like the Americans do. I remember my mother saying that the meat she used to buy that would last a week in Europe would be ONE MEAL here in the US. Meat is much more expensive in Europe and horsemeat is more expensive than cattle meat. My relatives consider horsemeat a delicacy. Their friends consider it a delicacy. You can call it whatever you like. I'm not putting anyone in any class. Just pointing out from MY OWN experience what it is considered to be. Didn't get it off any website, it's called life's experiences.
                              Rum Car 2/15/72-1/13/05
                              Rest in peace, beautiful boy

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                Dahling, read the numbers right: The number of horses who went from regulated slaughter in the US to largely unregulated ends in Mexico has rissen 5 times...You rejoice over that? You are strange!
                                Since when was slaughter regulated in the states? Oh, yeah, that's right, the laws are on the books, forgot about that, and so did everyone in the slaughter business.

                                What difference does it make if slaughter bound horses get shipped from Ohio to TX (Sugarcreek to Beltex) Colorado to Illinois (Charlie Carter to Cavel) or now to Canada or Mexico? Look at a map lately?

                                The overall numbers for the year are lower for the time being. Even though some pro-slaughter folks always accuse us ban supporters of wanting all or nothing, for the time being, until the Federal Ban passes, we will have to "make due" with much lower numbers of horses going to slaughter than did last year.
                                ************************
                                \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Erin View Post
                                  Really? Well, gosh, that's pretty much the definition of trolling, now isn't it?

                                  If you can't play nice, don't play. And if you are unable to actually form a coherent argument, and must instead resort to calling people names, leave.

                                  many of my posts ...I delete before they ever get here.
                                  I promise to play nice..

                                  Comment


                                  • I don't think its about making due with lower numbers its abiout does one think the system in Mex. is no differant then here. Personally being stabbed to death to me isn't a real great solution to get slaughter out of the U.S. As far as the " all or nothing " stance thats what some anti slaughter groups have decided they want has nothing to do with anyone being pro slaughter.
                                    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by county View Post
                                      Personally being stabbed to death to me isn't a real great solution to get slaughter out of the U.S.
                                      One forgets that the EU sanctioned slaughter house in MX, does not stab horses to death, but also uses a captive bolt.

                                      And again, the slaughter horror starts at auction and not at the slaughter house.
                                      ************************
                                      \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by luvmytbs View Post
                                        Since when was slaughter regulated in the states? Oh, yeah, that's right, the laws are on the books, forgot about that, and so did everyone in the slaughter business.

                                        What difference does it make if slaughter bound horses get shipped from Ohio to TX (Sugarcreek to Beltex) Colorado to Illinois (Charlie Carter to Cavel) or now to Canada or Mexico? Look at a map lately?

                                        The overall numbers for the year are lower for the time being. Even though some pro-slaughter folks always accuse us ban supporters of wanting all or nothing, for the time being, until the Federal Ban passes, we will have to "make due" with much lower numbers of horses going to slaughter than did last year.
                                        Read the numbers right, will you! They clearly state that as of now, the 5th month of the year the numbers of horses send to Mexico to be killed has already surpassed last years total times 5! that does not indicate the horses send to Canada, nor the ones killed in Texas or Illinois.

                                        And slaughter is regulated, or they would have no need for inspectors...

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                          Read the numbers right, will you! They clearly state that as of now, the 5th month of the year the numbers of horses send to Mexico to be killed has already surpassed last years total times 5! that does not indicate the horses send to Canada, nor the ones killed in Texas or Illinois.
                                          Actually, reading the numbers accurately ...

                                          This year to date- 10,679
                                          Last year at this time- 2,525


                                          Both are YTD figures .... the 2006 numbers are for the same time period as this year.
                                          This year's total to date is four times the number.. not five.

                                          And yes, four times is too many... any is too many. That is why it is important to get the federal legislation passed.

                                          Comment

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