Bill to ban slaughter passes in Illinois, signed by Gov. 5/24 - update p. 27

[Eddie Monster]

TAX

What do you get? Anything you buy thats imported just like the world gets anything exported.

Again ever heard of US tax?

[county]

According to the U.S. oil companies there not making huge money either hardly means anything.

Why do we not raise horses for slaughter in the U.S.? Mostly because of the market and because they take to long to grow to slaughter weight. We pump other species up with hormones to mass produce instead. Left to their own devices those species would take much longer to reach slaughter weight also.

Mother Nature didn't design any of them to live off corn, drugs, etc cattle are also a forage animal. It was our idea to change that.

[county]

Uh ya Eddioe I've heard of the U.S. tax its been around for awhile now whats your point?

[Eddie Monster]

TAX

Uh ya Eddioe I've heard of the U.S. tax its been around for awhile now whats your point?

The point is I pay taxes and NOBODY gives me anything. Except for the beer that a very nice individual just handed me.

I'm out of here. Horse slaughter is UNAMERICAN that is my other point!

[county]

Poor Eddie has to pay taxes. Lifes a bitch and then you die.

[RainyDayRide]

Chicago Trib article

http://tinyurl.com/332elh


Senate moves to save horses
DeKalb slaughter factory,the last in nation, faces ax

By Ray Long and John Biemer
Tribune staff reporters
Published May 17, 2007

SPRINGFIELD — With the Illinois Senate's approval Wednesday of a measure
that would ban the slaughter of horses for human consumption, the state
is poised to force closure of the nation's last such plant—in DeKalb.

The measure previously had passed the House, and Gov. Rod Blagojevich's
aide said he will sign the bill. The Senate vote was 39-16.

The measure drew strong backing from movie star Bo Derek and animal
rights groups in an effort that spanned several years in Springfield,
with opponents arguing that it would eliminate an option for owners to
dispose of horses that are no longer wanted or useful.

As soon as the bill is signed, the DeKalb slaughterhouse "will have to
shut down" said Sen. John Cullerton (D-Chicago), the sponsor.

"These are companion animals, not livestock," Cullerton said. "Many
animal lovers look upon horses like cats and dogs rather than pigs and
cows."

"We're absolutely thrilled," said Michael Markarian, executive vice
president of the Humane Society of the United States, who said the
group's focus is now on legislation being considered in Congress to ban
the practice nationwide, as well as the exportation of horses to
slaughterhouses in Mexico and Canada. "The walls are closing in on the
foreign-owned horse slaughter industry."

Blagojevich promised Derek a quick signing of the bill while she was in
Springfield to testify on behalf of the legislation earlier this year,
Cullerton said. Illinois Department of Agriculture Director Chuck Hartke
also supported the ban, pointing out that there is no domestic market of
horse meat for human consumption.

According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, 100,800 horses were
slaughtered in the United States for human consumption in 2006, but the
last two slaughterhouses besides DeKalb, both in Texas, shut down under
a court order earlier this year.

Sen. Brad Burzynski (R-Clare), whose district includes the plant, argued
against the ban, saying it will create burdens for owners who have
horses that are old or no longer good for riding and working.

"Before, people could actually sell their animals, get some money. Now
it's actually going to cost people to get them euthanized and disposed
of," Burzynski said.

Burzynski also argued that the more than 40 slaughterhouse employees
would lose jobs, but Cullerton said the plants in Texas resumed
slaughtering other animals within weeks.

James Tucker, manager of the DeKalb plant, owned by the Belgian company
Cavel International, said the bill's passage "goes against all reason."

A federal appeals judge had just allowed the plant to reopen two weeks
ago after it was shut down for a month as the result of a Humane Society
lawsuit.

"We're looking at alternatives," Tucker said. "We don't have a lot of
options."

[skatepixie]

Thank God and the Illinois state senate!

[JSwan]

Many of us do have concerns. But when I point out the larger picture - I get shot down. Remember how I'm harping about how horses are just one species and I'd rather focus on the entire picture rather than banning slaughter of just one species because we're more emotionally attached to it? A lot of people think that way. Within the industry.

Please don't think that people involved in agriculture don't care about animal welfare. It's simply not true.

but if it's horrible for horses (not saying it isn't), then it must be horrible for hogs and sheep, too. So why doesn't the ag industry have the same concern that is being shown about the horses?

[JSwan]

There is little to no regard for animal welfare, few regulations, few laws, no training.

If you think it's "bad" in the US - with all the laws and regs we have - the systems we have, the years of research and studies into welfare, stress, handling...... Mexico is medieval by comparison.

And there is nothing we can do about it.

I refuse to look at any video that has anything to do with this subject... but why does everyone think that horses are worse off going to Mexico? Warning... this may or may not be a loaded question.

[county]

I'd rerally like to know if people think theres a point where they said " shutting down slaughter plants in the U.S. and having horses go to Mex. was not a good idea. How many years and how many horses would it take? Or is it acceptable regardless?

[JSwan]

Thanks for the update - when I lived in Europe we had to go to a different store.

But I stand by what I said - the horsemeat delicacy argument is BS. When I hear that argument - I know the person has no idea of what life is like in any European country - and it reading too many activist websites.

And y'all are wrong about a federal ban - it will not stop anyone from taking a horse to Japan or anything other country. Only to be slaughtered - the horse can be shipped if it's not intended for slaughter.

For example - Ferdinand. He was not shipped to Japan for slaughter.

Rest on your laurels, folks. I'm not sure I could if I were in your position.

According to THIS picture, it is sold right next to other meats at the grocery store. Hmmmmm.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/b...7/IMG_0804.jpg

[kcgold]

Many of us do have concerns. But when I point out the larger picture - I get shot down. Remember how I'm harping about how horses are just one species and I'd rather focus on the entire picture rather than banning slaughter of just one species because we're more emotionally attached to it? A lot of people think that way. Within the industry.
Please don't think that people involved in agriculture don't care about animal welfare. It's simply not true.

I understand that you have "concerns", and that is admirable. But what is the ag industry actively doing about it? (And County - I used the term "ag industry" because a great many of the groups fighting against the ban are ag groups in one form or another....I could have easily just called them "pro slaughter" groups instead).

But I ask again what they are doing, other than having "concerns"? It seems hypocritical to me for the ag folks to on one hand protest Cavel shutting because now the poor horses are going to horrible Mexico....while on the other hand the poor hogs and sheep go to horrible Mexico every day and no one says a word.

[philosoraptor]

Hi Trailhorse....

[quote=trailhorse1;2437851] Maybe not by choice but many millions of people are starving in the world.

But they're not shipping the meat to starving children in Africa. It goes to gourmet diners in countries such as France and Belgium who pay a big premium.

slaughter industry is (unfortunately) a necessity to our industry.

No, it exists to provide meat to French people. It doesn't exist to euthanize X number of horses because X number don't have homes.

It also is or was played a role in our nations economy. The industry provided jobs, capital to both state and federal levels....

They pay a huge sum in taxes (not). I think it was something like $5 for the one slaughter plant's whole Federal tax return for a year. They play with tax laws so the meat is processed at a loss and all the profit is when it's sold to buyers in their home countries. This information is publicly available.

Food for thought: if you butcher a horse, you've only created work for people for a few hours. If you keep that horse alive, you've created a decade of work not just for immedate people (eg barn owners,barn staff, trainer) but of related industries (feed store, farrier, vet, haulling companies, etc).

and I have to say fortunately provided a disposal of unwanted, neglected and mis-used horses, all because of HORSE PEOPLE.

Not all neglected horses go to slaughter, and not all slaughter-bound horses are useless. They buy to meet an order for horsemeat. They don't stop and say "is this horse suffering, let's be sure he goes" "this horse looks too young and healthy, leave him behind". They are not the Humane Society. They kill anything and everything that has any meat on it.

It is not the fault or wishes of NON-HORSE PEOPLE. I do hope and pray that all of you who voted, worked and supported these acts to be abolished have a HUGE PLAN for what is to happen in the coming times. I have to say that this is the start of the destruction of the horse industry here in the United States.

Please explain.

I hope you all are ready for this. THE HORSE SLAUGHTER INDUSTRY IS AND WAS VERY, VERY UGLY BUT IT WAS A PART OF THE HORSE INDUSTRY. I SURE HOPE ALL OF YOU ARE READY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR ACTIONS.

Yes, I am prepared for breeders to actually breed carefully instead of just breeding every mare on the ranch and sending the extras to slaughter. I'm prepared for individuals who neglect their animals to be prosecuted instead of being paid $200 to haul the poor suffering animal to a meat auction. I'd very much look forward to seeing folks euthanizing, donating, or selling their animals instead of putting them on that very long and unpleasant ride.

BTW it wasn't always part of the horse industry. All three US horse plants are owned by foriegners who just wanted a cheap source of meat. The US did just fine before the slaughterhouses were built, and it's doing just fine this year with the plants on restricted or no killling at all.

[kcgold]

But I stand by what I said - the horsemeat delicacy argument is BS. When I hear that argument - I know the person has no idea of what life is like in any European country - and it reading too many activist websites.

it may not be a "delicacy", but (if my math is correct) it appears to be around $8.00 a pound from the figures quoted earlier in this thread. That probably isn't cheap, either?

[kcgold]

I'd rerally like to know if people think theres a point where they said " shutting down slaughter plants in the U.S. and having horses go to Mex. was not a good idea. How many years and how many horses would it take? Or is it acceptable regardless?

County, I don't know that anyone can answer that. How could anyone possibly quantify that? Personally, I'm not happy with any US horses going to any slaughterhouse in any country.

[philosoraptor]

What countries raise horse for slaughter? How come the US does not? county... tear yourself away from Eddie( love Eddie BTW) and try to answer my question.

It's not profitable. Way too much time to maturity. Horse feed/hay far too expensive for what you'd get from the slaughterhouse.

We don't use it in our country, so we're also at the whims of what's in style in places such as Belgium or France. Their demand swings up and down (as evidenced by the # horses killed each year fluctuating wildly). You're also competing against the horses some fool dumped at auction that the killbuyers can pick up for three hundred bucks or less each.

Also imagine if you're raising horses specificially for meat: many of the drugs that we use in a daily basis are NOT permitted in slaughterbound animals. Meat horse breeder would have to find replacements for these drugs or do without.

[philosoraptor]

What if this change leads to other changes? Now, of course, the slaughter industry wants to scare you with the idea that next thing you know they will ban the slaughter of cows and we will all be eating lettuce for the rest of our lives. This is not going to happen. It is much more likely that this might open the door to further restrictions that might impact the industry on a greater financial and practical level.

This is a good point. Thank you for explaining it better than I can.

The pro-horse-slaughter side wants us to believe in the slippery-slope arguement: if we stop killing our horses, somehow it'll morph into next year a ban on consuming meat animals that were raised for meat (eg livestock such as cattle). But we can flip that arguement and say if horse slaughter should be acceptable, so should dog slaughter. Americans should eat puppymeat and decorate their mittens with kitten fur. But American culture does draw a line on what is and is not a "meat" animal... and horses just aren't "meat".

I don't see the horse slaughter ban leading to restrictions. For years the pro-horse side fought the horse slaughter industry to reform, and they refused. Nobody is enforcing the existing restrictions on horses. The USDA gets called in sometimes, but they're the meat farmer's lobby group not a humane assoication. There's just no way a ban on killing horses will somehow bubble over into restrictions on cattle. The system doesn't enforce any rules right now, except for those which specifically affect meat price (eg mad cow scare).

I think the bigger picture is America is getting educated & affluent enough to stop and think about our food. We've also been removed from where our food comes from for over a generation, thanks to agribusiness and a convenience-based lifestyle. It is a shock for a young person to realize that cute little calf at the petting zoo is killed and turned into shrink-wrapped burger his mom brings home from the store.

One angle is for some people to choose more 'humane' meats and/or to buy direct from the farmer. I don't see that as being bad. Imagine if the money stayed in the community? It's no more the end of the meat industry as 'organic' ended the crop/vegetable industry.

For many of US, horse slaughter is a moral issue. For the INDUSTRY, it is a very practical one. We would do well to remember this on both sides. While the industry may do a "good" job parrotting the rhetoric of "unwanted horses" and the need for "horse harvesting" for the greater good of equines and their owners, we must remember that "care" for horses is not their concern or their goal (e.g. horses are meat on the hoof not animals worthy of respect or even decent treatment). A focus on care for horses is only their rhetorical means to tap into a certain segment of the horse industry. It is only care and concern for their own necks that drive them.

Very well said!

[county]

Actually I think there should be concern that a ban could lead to bans on others meats. On this forum alone people have said they hope veal is next why should anyone think thats a lie? As far as eating cats and dogs if you want to go ahead but you can't force people to eat something they don't want. I'm not going to eat goats but I have no problem if others do.

[tbtrailrider]

Actually I think there should be concern that a ban could lead to bans on others meats.

Not every one is as naive and clueless as you.
like I said before, my LL said that was ridiculous..no one is going to stop eating their T bones.
He is a cattle farmer.

[county]

ROTFLMAO so the people on here who said they'd push to ban veal are liars? I'm also a cattle farmer so whats your point?

BTW yesterday you were whining how people shouldn't post any more on these threads, today your back to the typical anti slaughterr stance of name calling. Can't make up your mind?