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Bill to ban slaughter passes in Illinois, signed by Gov. 5/24 - update p. 27

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  • #81
    Originally posted by mighty mite View Post
    In Europe horsemeat is considered a delicacy, in other words, rather expensive.

    No. It's not. It might be rather less popular/common than meat from other species, but it's not a delicacy, and it's not particularly expensive. As with any other meat, the prices vary according to the cut, in my experience (I have lived in and traveled extensively in Europe) it is perhaps slightly more expensive than the equivalent cuts of beef. Prices (horsemeat) went rather high during the height of the mad cow scare, though.

    There are plenty of valid arguments on both sides of the slaughter debate, there really is no need to resort to erroneous class war tactics.

    That federal bill better pass and quick, or all this bill will do is cause (perhaps fewer, perhaps not) horses to suffer far more in Mexico.

    Comment


    • #82
      I'm here a bit late but fabulous news...so happy. Like I've said, we're going to win this one - across the board.

      Comment


      • #83
        Originally posted by citydog View Post
        No. It's not. It might be rather less popular/common than meat from other species, but it's not a delicacy, and it's not particularly expensive. As with any other meat, the prices vary according to the cut, in my experience (I have lived in and traveled extensively in Europe) it is perhaps slightly more expensive than the equivalent cuts of beef. Prices (horsemeat) went rather high during the height of the mad cow scare, though.

        There are plenty of valid arguments on both sides of the slaughter debate, there really is no need to resort to erroneous class war tactics.

        That federal bill better pass and quick, or all this bill will do is cause (perhaps fewer, perhaps not) horses to suffer far more in Mexico.
        what does horsemeat taste like... and who cares how much more the horses suffer in Mexico... wait... are you saying Mexicans do not care about the horses?

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        • #84
          I guess my point is I really don't see the logic behind banning a business so that there will be less then 1% for another one.
          Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

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          • #85
            That is not the logic behind the banning.
            It is one aspect of the potential impact of the ban.

            The reason for wanting the ban, as has been repeated over and over, is about laws/regulations that get ignored at best, and the inhumanity of the entire process, similar to that of the other animals you report and about putting a collective foot down after years and years of the industry having it their way regardless of what was legal.

            But then, you already knew that.
            Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

            http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

            Comment


            • #86
              And you already knew the reasons the other side is against the proposed ban.

              Tell me is there a point in time when you would feel the ban in Ill. and Tx. turns out to be a bad deal? Meaning if the fed. gov. does not pass the fed ban preventing horses to go out of country.

              Is there a point where you'd think maybe sending them to Mex wasn't such a good idea. 1 year, 3 years, 5 years?
              Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

              Comment


              • #87
                honestly. . .

                You know, I have read so many of these threads -- same arguments, same personal attacks and insults. While I "enjoy" it as much as the next person, in thinking about this today I had a thought about the industry that we are dealing with here.

                WE have moral objections to horses being slaughtered. The anti-slaughter side can't imagine how a horse lover could support an industry that promotes and supports such cruelty and inhumanity to animals that we love. We see the violations, the slaughter of pregnant mares as an abomination.

                The pro-slaughter side claims to have concerns about the overall welfare of horses and the possible neglect that could result if slaughter is banned. (I will not attempt to detail all of your arguments because a) it has been done to death and b) I'm not on your side and I would hate to get flamed for misrepresenting your arguments).

                Even if we have different ideas about slaughter the common thread here is that we all (presumably) care about horses and their welfare (i.e. we don't want them to be slaughtered, abused, neglected, sent to Mexico). What we lose sight of here while we are scratching each others' eyes out there is an industry who doesn't really care what we have to say.

                The slaughter industry for so long has operated with reckless abandon, assuming that most American could care less about how their meat got to the table -- they just want it to get there. Suddenly, in a shocking move, people started to care about animals differently and the industry couldn't operate the way it once did. Good god, people were paying attention and pesky humane changes needed to be made!

                NOW, some upstarts come along and say that they don't want a specific group of animals slaughtered. Banning slaughter matters to many of us because we love horses. The slaughter industry doesn't care about horses. It doesn't care about the abuse and neglect of unwanted horses.

                If horse slaughter were banned tomorrow, profit wise, it probably wouldn't mean much to the slaughter industry in the grand scheme of things. Yes, some kill buyers might be impacted, some people might have to get new jobs, etc but to the overall industry those people are no big deal. What IS a big deal is that there would be an unprecidented limitation on an industry that, in their minds, could have sweeping implications down the road.

                What if this change leads to other changes? Now, of course, the slaughter industry wants to scare you with the idea that next thing you know they will ban the slaughter of cows and we will all be eating lettuce for the rest of our lives. This is not going to happen. It is much more likely that this might open the door to further restrictions that might impact the industry on a greater financial and practical level.

                For many of US, horse slaughter is a moral issue. For the INDUSTRY, it is a very practical one. We would do well to remember this on both sides. While the industry may do a "good" job parrotting the rhetoric of "unwanted horses" and the need for "horse harvesting" for the greater good of equines and their owners, we must remember that "care" for horses is not their concern or their goal (e.g. horses are meat on the hoof not animals worthy of respect or even decent treatment). A focus on care for horses is only their rhetorical means to tap into a certain segment of the horse industry. It is only care and concern for their own necks that drive them.
                When life gives you lemons. . .say &%^# you lemons! And throw those lemons back in life's face so that it will be afraid of you and won't try that crap again!

                Comment


                • #88
                  Mexico

                  what does horsemeat taste like... and who cares how much more the horses suffer in Mexico... wait... are you saying Mexicans do not care about the horses?
                  Reply With Quote
                  The Mexican's care about how tender the meat is and they believe if they use this mehod, it will be more tender:


                  We must get HR 503 and S 311 passed. Please call your senators and reps!

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    here is the link: http://www.hsus.org/video_clips/hors...r_cruelty.html

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Originally posted by MJNYC View Post
                      The Mexican's care about how tender the meat is and they believe if they use this mehod, it will be more tender:


                      We must get HR 503 and S 311 passed. Please call your senators and reps!
                      I refuse to look at any video that has anything to do with this subject... but why does everyone think that horses are worse off going to Mexico? Warning... this may or may not be a loaded question.

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Originally posted by county View Post
                        And you already knew the reasons the other side is against the proposed ban.

                        Tell me is there a point in time when you would feel the ban in Ill. and Tx. turns out to be a bad deal? Meaning if the fed. gov. does not pass the fed ban preventing horses to go out of country.

                        Is there a point where you'd think maybe sending them to Mex wasn't such a good idea. 1 year, 3 years, 5 years?
                        NIMBYs don't care, as long as they can't see it.

                        I don't see the laws banning export being passed:

                        The United States has a huge trade deficit, from all the good stuff we want cheap. There is not nearly enough demand for American goods in the world.

                        For those who have flunked economics, more good coming in than going out means more money going out and not coming in like your own check book - that's bad! It brings along all the fun stuff like inflation and recession...horse in a small box, frozen brings more money than same horse on trailer to a cheap sale or plant....but every little thing counts.

                        As to closing the border - You do read the news?! We are talking about a border that is unable to keep semi loads of drugs out or similar if not bigger shipments of drug money in. What makes you think they get all huffy over a few trucks with cheap horse?!

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Originally posted by xegeba View Post
                          I refuse to look at any video that has anything to do with this subject... but why does everyone think that horses are worse off going to Mexico? Warning... this may or may not be a loaded question.
                          Well, you need to watch the video, but basically the horse is stabbed in the neck, severing the spinal cord, rendering it unable to move, yet fully conscious of its surroundings.

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                            As to closing the border - You do read the news?! We are talking about a border that is unable to keep semi loads of drugs out or similar if not bigger shipments of drug money in. What makes you think they get all huffy over a few trucks with cheap horse?!
                            Well first of all how many loads will be going to Mexico?
                            Certainly Mexico can not pay whatever would make it profitable for those who do this to ship the 139,000+ that was slaughtered last year all the way to Mexico. So lets say only 10% go to Mexico, since the price of gas (which effects the bottom line) limits ALL of them going. That to me is alot better than status Quo.

                            Then if the ban goes into effect horses going out of country will need all kinds of pricey paperwork and proof of ownership and health. That cuts into the profit a bit more and certainly makes it more work to ship those horses and further reduces the number being shipped all that way.

                            There will always be people who want to break or bend the rules... but it's time to tell these people that we are done ignoring what they are doing every day right here to these animals.
                            Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                            http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              I have never posted on this subject.

                              The video is not for the faint of heart by any means (insert barf icon here) So horrible

                              On the other note.. I bet slaughter will always be around. If not here in the good ole USA it will happen else where. Horses will go across to Mex and Ca. Just like someone said before if all the illegals can get across to the USA the horses will make it into Mex. If any money at all (even if it is not much) can be made someone will find a way to do it.

                              I will not say if I am pro or not but I wanted to say that we are a bezillion years from no slaughter at all.
                              Draumr Hesta Farm
                              "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
                              Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Angela you seem to think all the horses in the U.S. are far from Mex. and Can. fact is its closer to haul many of them to those places then to the U.S. plants.
                                Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Horse slaughter plants good for US NOT!!!

                                  These foreign owned slaughtering houses operate at a loss in the US and reap the rewards overseas end result they pay no US taxes. Dallas Crown's tax returns are public record for 2004 because they were subpoenaed in a lawsuit. I think they paid $5.00 in US tax on over 12 MILLION in revenue. On top of that Americans paid 5 MILLION to inspect the meat that we DON'T eat by the way. Boy wish there were more foreign owned corps in the US like this WOW 5 bucks minus the 5 MILLION and it looks like the US only lost about $4,999,995. that year!!!!! Sheeeeshhhh!

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
                                    Well first of all how many loads will be going to Mexico?
                                    Certainly Mexico can not pay whatever would make it profitable for those who do this to ship the 139,000+ that was slaughtered last year all the way to Mexico. So lets say only 10% go to Mexico, since the price of gas (which effects the bottom line) limits ALL of them going. That to me is alot better than status Quo.

                                    Then if the ban goes into effect horses going out of country will need all kinds of pricey paperwork and proof of ownership and health. That cuts into the profit a bit more and certainly makes it more work to ship those horses and further reduces the number being shipped all that way.

                                    There will always be people who want to break or bend the rules... but it's time to tell these people that we are done ignoring what they are doing every day right here to these animals.

                                    The added cost of fuel is offset by the horses not costing anything.

                                    Have you seen the numbers posted on the other thread? The export numbers while the plants were down? How can you sit there and say it's better than the status quo?! Mexico is not up to par on regulations regarding the treatment of animals - they don't even treat their people well! How can you gloat and rejoice, knowing that the animals you claim to love and care for are now on the way to a longer trip and an end with little to no regulations? How can you sleep at night? They were not killed in the US - big deal!

                                    And even if a ban is to pass - guess what! They won't go straight to the slaughter house, they will make yet another stop, will be handled some more, and run through yet another sale...

                                    And if you do get to top the export of horses you will cause a backlash for the honest to goodness horse owners who want to enjoy their animals, go to shows and such. Because under the law a horse is a horse of course of course.

                                    And no
                                    Horse meat is not a delicacy. It is and has been regarded as cheap meat, poor peoples food. They sell it at separate shops so you know you are getting horse, and don't pay extra for it as 'beef'

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      So how much did the IRS and U.S. Gov. say they were supposed to pay? How much do U.S. companies pay out to the countries they do business in?
                                      Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        What is the push in Washington to rush through the national slaughter ban now that horse's *aren't* being slaughtered in the United States????

                                        Ummm, maybe because the bill will prohibit the transportation of horses to slaughter (which will include Canada and Mexico)???

                                        Dawn

                                        Comment


                                        • Theres a rush in Wash. to vote on a federal ban? A rush by whom? Sure isn't the politicians theres been no indication I've seen there in any hurry at all.
                                          Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

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