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Bill to ban slaughter passes in Illinois, signed by Gov. 5/24 - update p. 27

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  • Originally posted by Dalfan View Post
    I didn't say they THINK like people, that's the point. They don't have the brain power some of us have to see and understand what is about to happen to them, whereas humans can reason it out. All they have is their inherent natural instincts. Humans wouldn't smell the blood and fear, horses would. Talk about someone that needs an education regarding the NATURAL instincts that horses possess, and for that matter, most other animals would have the same hightened senses and instincts.

    Are you actually gonna tell me that horses cannot sense fear? In a rider? A handler? A herd member?


    Exactly.
    Horses can smell and know to filter when all they smell matters and how to react to it, they don't try to intellectualize it.
    Horses are fearful in many places, the slaughterhouse no different, just one more.
    Horses have learned to deal with their fears fine, be it at the vets, a sale barn, running hard to handle horses thru the cattle chute for their Coggins, a show ground, any place according to their experiences.

    According to the ones that told me, horses were quieter going down the chutes at the slaughterhouse than in other places horses are handled thru chutes, wich surprises those that expected wild action there, as the propaganda tells it.
    Of course, if nothing else, the plant wants them to go easy because that makes the job of handling them better for the plant, even if they didn't care about the horses, as you say.

    PEOPLE know what a slaughterhouse is. HORSES don't.
    We make all those stories up about how horses ought to feel there, but they don't, sorry, horses don't think that way.

    Comment


    • My friend who actually took a horse to a slaughter house under the idea that it was a humane way to end a horse's life and cover her vet bills was horrified at the REEK of blood and the stink of the place. (which I believe is one reason why that one neighborhood wanted to shut the one slaughterhouse down.) My friend who is a very accomplished horsewoman and trainer, also commented at the unease and tension of the horses...they were crowded into small pens and they could also smell the stench of the place and hear the noises of horses in distress inside. She swore after her visit there to never put another horse through an end like that and the look on her face as she told the story, convinced me she meant it. They may be animals but they can sense danger and fear it. They may not understand death as we do, but they do fear being killed or hurt.

      Comment


      • According to the ones that told me, horses were quieter going down the chutes at the slaughterhouse than in other places horses are handled thru chutes, wich surprises those that expected wild action there, as the propaganda tells it.
        Of course, if nothing else, the plant wants them to go easy because that makes the job of handling them better for the plant, even if they didn't care about the horses, as you say.
        "The ones that told you". Hearsay. And propaganda. Of course they would like everyone to think it's just no big deal, just a nice walk and the horse has no idea (or sense) of what's coming. Sorry, I've seen the videos, as many have also. No amount of your drivel for the slaughter industry can change that. You must be truly desensitized to the process to not have a care for what the horse is going through.

        Of course they don't know what a SH is. Who said that? But they can sense the fear and smell the blood (and other things).

        Bluey;horses are extremely sensitive to their environments and their fellows. Have you ever been in a barn and a horse casts himself, or has a fit, or scrabbles about in the walkways, or is in some way distressed? Have you noticed the reactions/behaviors of his barnmates? Have you noticed that they know something is going on? A concern on their part?
        *** 4 More Years ***
        *** 4 More Years ***

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Daydream Believer View Post
          My friend who actually took a horse to a slaughter house under the idea that it was a humane way to end a horse's life was horrified at the REEK of blood and the stink of the place. (which I believe is one reason why that one neighborhood wanted to shut the one slaughterhouse down.) My friend who is a very accomplished horsewoman and trainer, also commented at the unease and tension of the horses...they were crowded into small pens and they could also smell the stench of the place and hear the noises of horses in distress inside. She swore after her visit there to never put another horse through an end like that and the look on her face as she told the story, convinced me she meant it. They may be animals but they can sense danger and fear it. They may not understand death as we do, but they do fear being killed or hurt.
          Your friend's impression against those of several I have talked to, that went there to look for a stolen horse, not prepared for what was there and told that it was not at all like your friend said.
          Guess that they went a different times.

          Comment


          • Your friend's impression against those of several I have talked to, that went there to look for a stolen horse, not prepared for what was there and told that it was not at all like your friend said.
            Of course not. I would never expect a story from you that does not put a good and descent light on the SH's and the process. No surprise there.

            And, of course, ONLY your friends have it right, and are unbiased, propaganda-free with no agenda. Everyone else's story's of horrific, cruel conditions are just BS from the anti's. Right?
            *** 4 More Years ***
            *** 4 More Years ***

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Dalfan View Post
              You need to take MayS up on her offer to accompany her to New Holland. See what is going through the pens.
              LOL. How many times has she been invited to do just that over the past year? All expenses paid even.
              Ain't gonna happen.
              ************************
              \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

              Comment


              • Bluey...I trust this lady completely...I know her pretty well and respect her immensely...I don't know your friends. You will never convince me that she was lying nor that she has any reason to lie. She was ashamed of her choice to take her mare there and she told me why she'd never do it again.

                Comment


                • Why is it

                  Originally posted by Dalfan View Post
                  Of course not. I would never expect a story from you that does not put a good and descent light on the SH's and the process. No surprise there.

                  And, of course, ONLY your friends have it right, and are unbiased, propaganda-free with no agenda. Everyone else's story's of horrific, cruel conditions are just BS from the anti's. Right?
                  Your always right and Bluey is wrong.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Daydream Believer View Post
                    Bluey...I trust this lady completely...I know her pretty well and respect her immensely...I don't know your friends. You will never convince me that she was lying nor that she has any reason to lie. She was ashamed of her choice to take her mare there and she told me why she'd never do it again.
                    Why would she take her mare there? That doesn't make sense anyway.
                    I nevere said I doubt her story, just her impressions of it, under the circumstances.
                    Of course she would be shocked, slaughterhouses are undestandably shocking and gruesome, if that is what you want to look for, but that doesn't make them abusive or an improper way of disposing of the horses no one wants.

                    Some day maybe we will have an ideal world where no one dies, no one has to live off others, where everything will be balanced perfectly, not too much of anything, or too little.
                    We won't be raising any more animals for our uses, the few around will be free to go and come in preserves, etc.
                    Until then, raising and using many of our animals thru slaughter is the way the world works and will still for long time, because it makes sense to do so.

                    Comment


                    • Your always right and Bluey is wrong.
                      You need to ask bluey why she is doubting and questioning the posters' story. Here;

                      Why would she take her mare there? That doesn't make sense anyway.
                      I nevere said I doubt her story, just her impressions of it, under the circumstances.
                      Obviously, if others come away with a different impression of their experiences, it's just not accurate, right?

                      And just as bluey can post an opinion, so can I. Not a question of right or wrong, just some statements that need to be....addressed.
                      *** 4 More Years ***
                      *** 4 More Years ***

                      Comment


                      • Why is it;

                        Your always right and Bluey is wrong.
                        You never ask bluey that question?
                        *** 4 More Years ***
                        *** 4 More Years ***

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                          Why would she take her mare there? That doesn't make sense anyway.
                          She told me she wracked up some huge vet bills caring for an injury on this mare and it was clear that the mare would not be even breeding sound again...so she had to put her down anyway. She thought perhaps selling her for meat would help her recoup expenses and be a humane way to end her life. She said she was very mistaken about the humane part of the slaughterhouse end and was ashamed of having taken her there just to get a little money out of her.

                          This lady is a rancher, breeder and runs a large dude string in East Texas and well known in our registry. She is in business and it was a business decision that led her to do that versus just put the mare down...but her conscience after her visit would not let her ever do it again.

                          She also commented on the STENCH of the place...and that is one reason why the town of Kaufman was trying to close down that slaughter house there for a long time.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                            According to the ones that told me, horses were quieter going down the chutes at the slaughterhouse than in other places horses are handled thru chutes, wich surprises those that expected wild action there, as the propaganda tells it.
                            Of course, if nothing else, the plant wants them to go easy because that makes the job of handling them better for the plant, even if they didn't care about the horses, as you say.

                            PEOPLE know what a slaughterhouse is. HORSES don't.
                            We make all those stories up about how horses ought to feel there, but they don't, sorry, horses don't think that way.

                            really? then why are there documented cases of plants being fined for whipping and beating the horses to move them along, and cases of horses trying to flee - if they are so calm and happy about the process?

                            Comment


                            • I'm just a little tired of hearing about all the "unwanted" horses - my mare IS wanted, by me, right now, and is probably dead because two women had the opportunity to sell her in a local kill buyer market and make a quick buck,
                              against my express wishes. I'd pay thousands to get her back right now. You yourself, Bluey, refer to friend of yours who went looking for a stolen horse at a slaughterhouse. Fraud and theft are real, and they exist in part because of the very presence of this industry. I'm very aware of the will-full ignorance of many horse owners, especially in the TB racing industry, who choose not to know what happens to their horses at the end of their useful (read money making) careers. However, it's not so clear to me that - were more owners held accountable for their choices by the relevant industries e.g. racing owners being required to publicly report the final sale/gift of their horse, that there would be far fewer horses NEEDLESSLY sent to slaughter.

                              And I say needlessly, because I'm also seeing frequent mention of broken down racehorses being a key element of the slaughter industry's "menu". Horses that breakdown catastrophically at the racetrack, whether in the mornings or in the afternoons, are, by and large, humanely euthanized. Racehorses that have injuries that end their money-making careers, but are not lifethreatening, are sent to slaughter (along with others that are not injured, but not good racehorse prospects). Such horses can have useful lives, even as companion animals. I've owned a "broken down" racehorse for 8years now. He has no use (he cannot be ridden) except as my pet, the leader of my small herd, and the "teaser" of my mares. Lucky him, lucky me. He's a love. My Blueshadow.

                              I do think there's a "matching" problem here. Horses can find homes (as I've mentioned repeatedly on this thread over 1/4 of a million horses a year today, relative to the number that were being slaughtered 15 years, ago miraculously find homes) - we just need to improve the matching technology a little, and probably just for a short period of time following a Federal ban. Horse needs owner, owner needs horse. That's what the emergence of adoption agencies is, ultimately, about.

                              As I've also claimed before, markets work, incentives shifts, and behavior changes when regulations change our environment. It's the fundamental principle behind any regulation or policy - if we didn't believe that behavior would change following a new law or regulation, then why regulate at all? Why any law?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by kcgold View Post
                                really? then why are there documented cases of plants being fined for whipping and beating the horses to move them along, and cases of horses trying to flee - if they are so calm and happy about the process?
                                Abuse can be found every place, even in the best barns sometimes.
                                That such was documented and fined ought to tell you that it is not the way things are and was taken care of so it doesn't happen again.

                                We don't ban cars because of drunk drivers, but punish them when caught.

                                Comment


                                • It's really too bad that these threads so often degenerate into:

                                  MY side is always right and YOUR side is always wrong.
                                  MY information is always truth and YOUR information is always propaganda.
                                  X poster is always wrong and Y poster is always right.

                                  You all should be political speech writers.

                                  Comment


                                  • Blueshadow, for what you seem to say, you sold your horse, the buyers did with what was now THEIR horse what they wanted to do and no one knows where she is or are not telling.
                                    Why blame slaughter for what happen to your mare, under those circumstances?
                                    Hard to see cause and effect there.

                                    Comment


                                    • Abuse can be found every place, even in the best barns sometimes.
                                      That such was documented and fined ought to tell you that it is not the way things are and was taken care of so it doesn't happen again.

                                      We don't ban cars because of drunk drivers, but punish them when caught.
                                      Have you really truly convinced yourself that the slaughter plant horse is not a terrified, frightened, distressed animal looking to flee any way it can? Do you really believe that they just stroll on down the line, not a terrified bone in their bodies (from the blood, fear, and screaming of their fellows), just walking up pretty as you please into the box?
                                      *** 4 More Years ***
                                      *** 4 More Years ***

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Dalfan View Post
                                        Have you really truly convinced yourself that the slaughter plant horse is not a terrified, frightened, distressed animal looking to flee any way it can? Do you really believe that they just stroll on down the line, not a terrified bone in their bodies (from the blood, fear, and screaming of their fellows), just walking up pretty as you please into the box?
                                        I think that you are reading too many animal right sites with those kinds of stories, honestly.
                                        Nice writing, for fiction. Not reality for what I have seen and others have told me, sorry.
                                        You can choose to believe what you want, as I do.

                                        Comment


                                        • Please Bluey, don't even tempt me on this. I happen to be an example of someone that was defrauded of a horse, (yes, that's what it's called when you lie to someone to induce them to enter a contract that they would not otherwise - you and others may find that to be established and common practice, however, it's ILLEGAL and for good reasons) in a region beset by incentives for people to do just that, through the presence of numerous mechanisms designed for people to be able to send horses to slaughter for a small but positive profit. That was my point. You know very well I don't "blame slaughter" for what happened to my horse, or to myself.

                                          And, by the way, I am also an example of an individual who chose to provide a home for an otherwise unwanted horse - two of them actually. We exist, lots of us. Adoptions exist. People who actually love and enjoy taking care of the old and the infirm and the injured until the day they die. These horses are not all unwanted, and that should be clear from the many posts on the many other threads on this BB.

                                          Comment

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