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Bill to ban slaughter passes in Illinois, signed by Gov. 5/24 - update p. 27

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  • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
    they are back at it, trying to shut perfectly legal, extremely well regulated industries on a whim and ignorance.
    An industry is only legal until it's banned. Now it's perfectly ILLEGAL in Illinois.

    "Extremely well regulated" - please show me a single regulation (i.e. a law that is enforced) governing meat horses which is written to protect the HORSES not the meat.

    "on a whim" implies it's done on impusle, without thought. However, this "whim" has been slowly building for decades. Now only has there been a great deal of thought about this, us "cockroaches" have worked our butts off starting & funding rescues and educating owners so horses have somewhere to go.

    Unfortunately, we are fighting successful, tax exempt organizations with all the money and time to spend in causes of the moment and happen to be their perfect money making issue right now.
    Who are these organizations who are overflowing with money and time and have nothing better to do?

    I see a wide spectrum of large groups (HSUS), regional rescue groups, animal protection organizations, alliances, and individuals fighting with money they had to work to raise. Just because an org is a non-profit doesn't mean the money floods in and they have no budget.

    The fight is against multi-national corporations who have lawyers and lobbyists on staff. We also fight the AQHA who is the biggest breeders (and whose horses are the highest % killed), so we're fighting some big money breeding interests.

    BIG money is to be make by a few parties if it's kept legal; no money is to be made by HSUS or rescue groups if it's banned.

    I don't know who is going to "win", but I am afraid the horses are the forgotten item here.
    Do you truly believe if the horses could talk, they'd say "please slaughter me"?

    A horse in a field still has a chance at being rescued, unlike one going to slaughter.

    This ban is proposed is NOT in the best interest of horses.
    Please explain, citing your sources.

    Please clearly show how it directly helps the horses if it's banned. We've already established neglect/abandonment doesn't spike when horse slaughter bottoms out, so please show us your evidence.

    I don't know how some of all those people for THIS ban sleep at night.
    We don't because we have images of horses being chained up burned into our minds: knocked down but not dead, neck cut open, and the horse is still breathing & heart still beating. We've seen the videos of horses so injured to walk being 'motivated' to leave a trailer with a cattle prod or 2x4.

    I have images of the brokers' pens and auctions seared into my memory. Lines of animals who will never get vet care because they're 'just meat', standing around sick and with open wounds. I see this firsthand, not through some edited video clip. Please come with me to New Holland auction or come look at some of the slaughterbound rescue horses that are donated to Equihab.

    Once you've seen some this through your own eyes, you will not sleep well again, either.
    Veterinarians for Equine Welfare

    Comment


    • Originally posted by J Swan View Post
      Let's not forget about the pigs....<image>
      Thanks for posting the photo of Trent Loos ! It was a good laugh.
      Veterinarians for Equine Welfare

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MayS View Post
        An industry is only legal until it's banned. Now it's perfectly ILLEGAL in Illinois.

        "Extremely well regulated" - please show me a single regulation (i.e. a law that is enforced) governing meat horses which is written to protect the HORSES not the meat.

        "on a whim" implies it's done on impusle, without thought. However, this "whim" has been slowly building for decades. Now only has there been a great deal of thought about this, us "cockroaches" have worked our butts off starting & funding rescues and educating owners so horses have somewhere to go.



        Who are these organizations who are overflowing with money and time and have nothing better to do?

        I see a wide spectrum of large groups (HSUS), regional rescue groups, animal protection organizations, alliances, and individuals fighting with money they had to work to raise. Just because an org is a non-profit doesn't mean the money floods in and they have no budget.

        The fight is against multi-national corporations who have lawyers and lobbyists on staff. We also fight the AQHA who is the biggest breeders (and whose horses are the highest % killed), so we're fighting some big money breeding interests.

        BIG money is to be make by a few parties if it's kept legal; no money is to be made by HSUS or rescue groups if it's banned.



        Do you truly believe if the horses could talk, they'd say "please slaughter me"?

        A horse in a field still has a chance at being rescued, unlike one going to slaughter.



        Please explain, citing your sources.

        Please clearly show how it directly helps the horses if it's banned. We've already established neglect/abandonment doesn't spike when horse slaughter bottoms out, so please show us your evidence.



        We don't because we have images of horses being chained up burned into our minds: knocked down but not dead, neck cut open, and the horse is still breathing & heart still beating. We've seen the videos of horses so injured to walk being 'motivated' to leave a trailer with a cattle prod or 2x4.

        I have images of the brokers' pens and auctions seared into my memory. Lines of animals who will never get vet care because they're 'just meat', standing around sick and with open wounds. I see this firsthand, not through some edited video clip. Please come with me to New Holland auction or come look at some of the slaughterbound rescue horses that are donated to Equihab.

        Once you've seen some this through your own eyes, you will not sleep well again, either.
        Again, you are talking ABUSE, which if and when it happens it is ILLEGAL already.

        Why not document the abuse and work on THAT?

        You know the answer and I do, has been said plenty.

        You want to ban cars, because some people drive drunk?

        And yes, this bill to ban horse slaughter, AS PROPOSED, no way around it you care to spin it, IS NOT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE HORSES the salughter system has been taking care of.

        Moot question, anyway, because it seems that it is politics as usual now, doesn't has much to do with anything else, when it gets where it is now.
        The wheeling and dealing will be done and the more powerful or with more interests to defend or bow to or trade for will be the "winner" in this game and the horses and rest of us will have to live with the consequences, whatever they may be.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
          Will comment, again on a few little details of the many disputable ones you present:
          There are no real "kill buyers", those are traders that buy many horses.
          They go thru all those horses and the ones they can sell for using horses are their money makers.
          The others no one has use for, there is no market for them, those they do take to the slaughter plant and sell them for less than they could if they were horses that someone wanted.
          The definition of kill buyer is someone who buys for resale to slaughter.

          Not all traders will sell to slaughter. Neither will all breeders or sale barns.

          Those of you that see abuses, report them.
          What happens behind closed doors is INSPECTED and REGULATED heavily, horse slaughter being one of the more regulated industries there is.
          Please show me these regulations that protect the horses from suffering.

          The industry is regulated for MEAT safety. Doesn't matter if the horse was made to stand on a 1000 mile truck ride, totally foundering and barely able to stand.

          The reason it is not open to the public is because the "public" that wants to get in there is people that are after closing the plants, with an agenda to destroy the industry.
          The "public" wouldn't need an "agenda" if the plants & killpens had nothing to hide.

          What is this "agenda"? A secret conspiracy to shut down the horse slaughter industry for some reason other than to protect the horses? Please enlighten me.

          Guess that you attack them for years, even burn them down and attack those owning the plants and working there personally and now condemn them because they are defensive and don't let you in? Duh!
          I am physically attacking anyone.

          Most of us are so disgusted by the horse slaughter industry because we DON'T like unnecessary suffering and we don't like violence.

          Can you cite a news stories of the plant workers being attacked? That's news to me.
          Veterinarians for Equine Welfare

          Comment


          • Originally posted by MayS View Post
            So the anti-slaughter people can never ban slaughter because it's too big of a business in this country... but you do think the anti-slaughter people COULD get laws passed and enforced against this same big business? It's harder to enforce lots of little regulations when most of the dirty end of this busienss is done behind closed doors or privacy fences.

            Are you aware the few laws that are out there to protect slaughterbound horses are rarely if ever enforced? Nobody actively polices the laws; it usually takes a citizen to call in a complaint. Trouble is feedlots and killplants are closed to outside view, so nobody is there to complain. We also face local law enforcement who either won't enforce laws on "livestock" (slaughterbound horses) or they defer it to the USDA (which is a meat safety agency, not a living horse protection one).

            They've been asked, begged, and demanded to reform for years. They will not. If we care about the horses' well being, we have no choice but to ban it outright. These folks cannot be trusted to be looking out for the best interests of the horses in their care.

            How is it a waste of time? Most of the people objecting to slaughter are objecting to the horrific handling & care the animals recieve prior to their death. Banning it ends this completely. No more loopholes or just hiding it. It's illegal, plain and simple, and they can no longer get by arguing they're "just livestock".
            Ahhhhh! Yes, finally an answer and a feedback that is not emotional. In fact a very wise and thought out explanation. I commend you for your view on this situation. Yes, I truly believe that there are laws on the books already to inforce regulations on these slaughter houses. I also believe there are already laws on the books for regulating the transportation and control of the feedlots that house the horses before slaughter. Making new laws and banning the whole process is just going to end up like all the laws we already have in place. One day a loop hole will be found and exploited.
            Maybe it takes us citizens to enforce the laws we already have in place. Forget about asking and begging for reforms. We are people with, I hope democracy on our side. We the people need to enforce the laws and regulations. We the people need to re-educate our law enforcement agencies, to help them stop the wrong doing of this business. Is this an easy process, hell no! But you anti-slaughter people want to take the easy way out and just get another law passed to, you think, ban the whole process. I have spoken with truck drivers who haul horses to the slaughter yard. I have spoken to killer buyers. I have spoken to slaughter house employees. I have spoken with people who raise horses just strictly for food purposes. Not all are horse haters. Not all just look at the bottom line. Yes, these folks are just trying to make a living like you and I. Alot of these folks will bring horses they feel are worth finding a good home for back home to re-sell. I have helped killer buyers bring horses back to their farms because they did not want to see (certain) horses destroyed. Horses that were pregnant at the slaughter yards that were taken out and sold to people who were at these yards to buy them, so they would not get the knife. It is business folks, pure business. Half of you folks would not make it in the real world of business. Why, because of your emotions. Maybe that is a good thing. I can say this though, it is because of the female gender horses are even still around today.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by MayS View Post
              The definition of kill buyer is someone who buys for resale to slaughter.

              Not all traders will sell to slaughter. Neither will all breeders or sale barns.



              Please show me these regulations that protect the horses from suffering.

              The industry is regulated for MEAT safety. Doesn't matter if the horse was made to stand on a 1000 mile truck ride, totally foundering and barely able to stand.



              The "public" wouldn't need an "agenda" if the plants & killpens had nothing to hide.

              What is this "agenda"? A secret conspiracy to shut down the horse slaughter industry for some reason other than to protect the horses? Please enlighten me.



              I am physically attacking anyone.

              Most of us are so disgusted by the horse slaughter industry because we DON'T like unnecessary suffering and we don't like violence.

              Can you cite a news stories of the plant workers being attacked? That's news to me.

              You want more regulations to protect horses? How about working for that?
              You keep asking questions that have been answered time and again and again, most right on this thread.

              People are agains slaughter in general because it is sad to kill anything.
              That is the way the world works and now want to change it and that's fine.
              But, as proposed with this bill, that IS NOT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF HORSES, that is why the AQHA and so many, by now over 200 well respected associations, that have done studies about this issues, are NOT supporting this bill.

              All else you keep bringing up is not part of this bill.
              You are taking about abuses, why not work on that?

              You say you yourself saw abuse at the slaughterplant?
              I thought you said no one can go in there?
              I have talked to those that have been there and they didn't see any abuse.

              Why not protest abuse when you saw it, make the system better?

              The alternatives presented if and when slaughter is illegal are not sensible, reasonable and in the best interest of those horses slaughter was processing.

              The stories of how people in the TX plant were harrased personally when they finally had to sell to foreign interest are, I am sure, of public record.

              We will just have to agree to disagree that abuse should be stopped by making the whole industry illegal and trying to find another reasonable way to handle all those unwanted horses it was using.
              Don't give me the line that those were wanted horses, because we already discussed that.
              We know that any one horse you "save" from the slaughterhouse bound truck is taking a home another horse will then go begging for.
              That is playing musical chairs with horses, the horse industry being as it is a mature market, definitively not expanding, if not shrinking, with only so many homes for what is produced.
              Someone, somewhere, is going to have to take up those excess horses and either feed them or euthanize them at society's cost.
              How is that better than a slaughter system?

              No, these discussions don't go any place.
              We will have to see what happens and then live with the consequences, as we are now, with all those horses going to Mexico, thanks to heedlessly closing the plants in the USA.

              Comment


              • Hey now - don't go insulting my pig. He's very sensitive, you know.

                Originally posted by MayS View Post
                Thanks for posting the photo of Trent Loos ! It was a good laugh.
                Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                -Rudyard Kipling

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                  The stories of how people in the TX plant were harrased personally when they finally had to sell to foreign interest are, I am sure, of public record.
                  I have looked and can't find anything. Nothing on the internet, nothing in the library.

                  Do I have to make a public records request from the law enforcement agencies nearest the Texas plants? Not a problem, because that's what I do for a living. I would just think that if it was as big a problem as is being purported, there would be something a little more accessible to the general public.
                  DON'T MAKE ME COME DOWN THERE!!! - God

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Lildunhorse View Post
                    I have looked and can't find anything. Nothing on the internet, nothing in the library.

                    Do I have to make a public records request from the law enforcement agencies nearest the Texas plants? Not a problem, because that's what I do for a living. I would just think that if it was as big a problem as is being purported, there would be something a little more accessible to the general public.
                    Don't know what your interest in that is, but if I wanted to know bad enough, I would find who the last owners were before foreign parties bought them out and then check records for a year or two before that with those names.

                    If the matter got serious enough to be a criminal case, something I don't remember, you may get questioned why you want to know, as such information should be flagged.
                    I think that today anyone that may be involved with something that touches into our homegrown terrorists of the animal rights activists persuasion rings bells and gets checked, just in case.

                    Comment


                    • Wellll....ummmm..

                      My interest in it is because I keep reading how us anti-slaughter types threatened and harassed people until the plants were either sold or closed. Last time I asked for specifics, I couldn't even get a general idea as to what part of whatever state it was supposed to be where it happened.

                      If I see the same claim being made over and over, I'd like some facts to back it up, even if I have to go on a treasure hunt to find it.

                      Of course, if there is an active criminal case as a result, I can always get court records. If not and the investigation is closed, I can still request a detailed list of any L.E. involvement with the particular plants and/or staff/executives of the same.
                      DON'T MAKE ME COME DOWN THERE!!! - God

                      Comment


                      • I have talked to those that have been there and they didn't see any abuse.
                        Of course they haven't. To them there is nothing wrong with slaughtering a horse - just livestock to them. Nothing abusive about slaughtering the sick, crippled, blind, broken and young that make the grueling and inhumane journey that ends with a hammer to the head. Get real.
                        *** 4 More Years ***
                        *** 4 More Years ***

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Dalfan View Post
                          Of course they haven't. To them there is nothing wrong with slaughtering a horse - just livestock to them. Nothing abusive about slaughtering the sick, crippled, blind, broken and young that make the grueling and inhumane journey that ends with a hammer to the head. Get real.
                          Get real, there are all kinds of horses ending there and many are nice, young and healthy and go down the line no different than they do down a BLM chute, except calmer, since they are not all scared of humans, as the feral horses are.

                          Yes, that alone is sad that it is an ending to life, but it is not abuse, as so many think and repeat here, from hearsay that doesn't know any better.

                          Get real, indeed. That is something those for the ban are sorely lacking, a sense of reality.

                          Comment


                          • Oh God

                            Originally posted by Dalfan View Post
                            Of course they haven't. To them there is nothing wrong with slaughtering a horse - just livestock to them. Nothing abusive about slaughtering the sick, crippled, blind, broken and young that make the grueling and inhumane journey that ends with a hammer to the head. Get real.
                            You get real They dont slaughter sick old broken down horses, Theres no money in it. Would you want to eat a crippled old sick skinny cow???
                            I knew the moon was full, it was only a matter of time before this popped up again!
                            Interesting how it falls silent when the houses were closed. But not a word about all the ones that are being transported to Canada.
                            For christs sakes you people start worrying about the imagration bill they are trying to pass in this country! If it gets passed the horses will be the least of your worries. Start worrying about your country and the people and what that bill will do to you.

                            Comment


                            • except calmer, since they are not all scared of humans, as the feral horses are.
                              Right. They just walk down that line like it's a stroll on the trail. Right - they don't smell the fear and the blood from those going before them. Who do you really think you're kidding?
                              *** 4 More Years ***
                              *** 4 More Years ***

                              Comment


                              • You get real They dont slaughter sick old broken down horses,
                                Really? How about all the TB's crippled/broken down from the track that go straight to the kill houses? How about those horrific transport wrecks crammed full of horses. Where are they going? To the feedlot to get fattened up? They still must endure a grueling and inhumane trip to get there.

                                So - all the horses that go to slaughter are just healthy, sound, unwanted horses, right?

                                You need to take MayS up on her offer to accompany her to New Holland. See what is going through the pens.

                                Immigration? Start calling your Senators and Congressmen - NOW.
                                *** 4 More Years ***
                                *** 4 More Years ***

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Sannois View Post
                                  For christs sakes you people start worrying about the imagration bill they are trying to pass in this country! If it gets passed the horses will be the least of your worries. Start worrying about your country and the people and what that bill will do to you.
                                  Hey, I'd be happy to discuss that with you too, if you can figure out how to make it horse related. Otherwise, it ain't gonna fly with the moderators.
                                  DON'T MAKE ME COME DOWN THERE!!! - God

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Dalfan View Post
                                    Right. They just walk down that line like it's a stroll on the trail. Right - they don't smell the fear and the blood from those going before them. Who do you really think you're kidding?
                                    They don't smell it any worse than at the vets.
                                    Horses don't THINK like people do.
                                    That is where people that don't know that do horses a disservice, not understanding them.

                                    You must have been reading again on those animal rights sites, with their heartwrenching fictional stories of horses thinking as humans going down the chutes etc.
                                    Makes for good fiction, but fiction is all that is, sorry.
                                    Such stories bring in support, donations and votes, but sorry again, it is not how horses think, it is meant to impress people and evidently did.

                                    Comment


                                    • [QUOTE=Bluey;2474984]They don't smell it any worse than at the vets.

                                      Just what kind of vet are you sending your animals to?

                                      Comment


                                      • [QUOTE=Blueshadow;2474998]
                                        Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                        They don't smell it any worse than at the vets.

                                        Just what kind of vet are you sending your animals to?
                                        Horses smell considerably better than people do and so they can smell what went on as far as operating and all that is done in vet clinics.

                                        Slaughterhouses have employees running around cleaning all the time and washing everything down also, something those that say have been there forget to mention.

                                        Remember, that was a contention for closing the plant in TX, the water they were using cleaning up so much?

                                        Comment


                                        • Horses don't THINK like people do.
                                          That is where people that don't know that do horses a disservice, not understanding them.
                                          I didn't say they THINK like people, that's the point. They don't have the brain power some of us have to see and understand what is about to happen to them, whereas humans can reason it out. All they have is their inherent natural instincts. Humans wouldn't smell the blood and fear, horses would. Talk about someone that needs an education regarding the NATURAL instincts that horses possess, and for that matter, most other animals would have the same hightened senses and instincts.

                                          Are you actually gonna tell me that horses cannot sense fear? In a rider? A handler? A herd member?
                                          *** 4 More Years ***
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