Anyone sent their horse to a "cowboy" to have an issue fixed?

[Paddys Mom]

Well, I had a cowgirl start my then 3 year old. SHe had him 90 days. I took him home and we were doing fine, then DST ended - and I ended up on the ground. He wouldn't let me mount him from the mounting block.... and if I did manage to get him to stand still long enought to mount, he'd take about one step from the mounting block and explode. Aaargh. I called the cowgirl and took him back. She worked with him when I first arrived, and "fixed" at least for the moment, the mounting issue. However, he didn't even TRY to buck with her, and she felt that it was something he didn't try with her - his trainer - but was testing me with. She gave me some ground work exercises, and a way to cope with his bucking (pulling his head up and booting him forward was NOT sufficient), and we went home after a long weekend, and haven't had any major issues since. He kept testing me for a while, but when he reached fully age 4, he's evolved (!) to merely doing normal horsey spooks, rather than illustrating his talent for a job at the NFR. He's 5.5 now, and while he's a bit touchy at present - we're rehabbing from a slight ligament tweak and he is not getting enough exercise, but vet has limited him to 30 min walking under saddle per day - over-all he's behaving well. I would not hesitate to go back to her if I needed help for non-dressage issues. (She has taken dressage lessons from my instructor on her "working ranch horse" show horse.)

This was similar to my experience except that the mare and I never got it worked out for ourselves. She was fine for the trainer but always tested me. I sold her.

[katarine]

That just sounds like a normal horse who needs a good steady person to start them for the first 60-90 days. That's just a horse being a horse.

Rates vary by region and resources. Expect to pay around 700/month.

[Woodland]

This was similar to my experience except that the mare and I never got it worked out for ourselves. She was fine for the trainer but always tested me. I sold her.

I happens. Some horses can get your number and never work out for you. I always look at it this way. Some horses speak Spanish but their owners speak Portuguese - close but not quite on the same page. A good trainer is fluent in all languages - that is why they are a trainer.

[Catalina]

-a more Alpha mare you have never met. She was resistant at every turn.

I had one of those too. She completely had my number and I was too old and too afraid of getting hurt to deal with her. I sent her off to a "cowboy" for six weeks (at $550 a month). The mare I got back was completely different from the one I sent. She was rideable, willing, and, as the years went by, a total blast to ride. A good cowboy is more then worth the money.

[chaltagor]

Horse is really nervous under saddle and rearing/bolting when dismounted. Vet has ruled out pain as the cause.

What horse? The one in the OP? How do you know?

[birdsong]

Here it can mean that a cowboy will use him on the ranch for a while. Ridden long days regularly tends to make them forget about acting up. They get serious quickly and learn to conserve that wasted energy.

A good retired cow horse, generally around 8 years old, is one that is level and no-nonsense...and a great find.

[KPF]

I sent one to an NH cowboy trainer for 60 days. Was it worth it? Nope.

Horse was calm when I tried him at the seller's farm, but after I brought him home, he was a nervous wreck. Scared of everything, including his shadow-- yep, really. I sent him to the NH guy to be "desensitized" and trainer did all kinds of round pen work and trail rode him. I rode him once at his place and he seemed a little better.

Got him home and he was still SCARED OF THE HOSE when I filled his bucket in the stall. Literally. Dumb me continued to ride him, was hacking out at a walk at home and Mr. Spooky bolted and I came off and broke my back. No clue what scared him.

Needless to say, that sealed the deal for me and he went on down the road to a new owner, with full disclosure of his issues. I think he had a screw loose and no amount of NH stuff or whatever would've fixed him. Sounds evil of me but I never followed up to see what became of him, I honestly didn't care. He damn near put me in a wheelchair for the rest of my life. I'm convinced that, like people, a certain percentage of the equine population is crazy.

[oldenmare]

KPF makes a good point - find out how much time is spent working the horse OUTSIDE of a round pen. Ask if you can come watch sessions with the horse and see how trainer responds...

A real trainer may use a round pen at first, but within a few days (IF that long) will have the horse working outside - in the ring, in fields, on trails.

A more "yahoo" trainer (my name for the aforementioned "yeawho" type) - only uses the roundpen which is why the horse never moves on in the real world...

I also agree that horse may need to be seen by a chiropractor if possible. The ONLY time my big guy ever acts up is when his back is ouchy.... something vets rarely check, IME.

[Lord Helpus]

I own Sandy M's kind of horse -- He would take 2 steps and explode. Fold in half and come up through the saddle like a volcano. My first 2 rides on him and I never made the 8 second buzzer. 2 concussions, broken arm and broken ribs.

This was NOT just a young horse who needed work. This was a horse with a real problem. (Not physical. I spent $$$$ ruling out all physical problems.)

Off he went to a NH lady -- for 3 months and $3000; she got him "looking at her out of both his eyes". Result: he flung both of us to the ground. So much for NH and my $3000.

Off to the nearby cutting horse trainer. Thank God! The man knew what he was doing and how to deal with problem horses. He kept his staff safe and my horse safe and he got the job done.

He has a 16.2h "pony" which my horse (16.2h 3 year old) was hitched to daily (via rope from halter to saddle horn) and Petey was forced to go and stop and turn and stop whenever the cowboy and his horse did. He did not like it, he resisted, but to no avail.

Then a Western saddle was added and this was repeated until Petey ignored the saddle.

Then a rider was added. Petey had no chance to bolt or buck. His head was in the cowboy's lap. He was captive.

His riding time was only part of his total training. He was put on the walker with a saddle on and stayed on it until it was time for him to be taken to the ring. 30 minutes, 90 minutes, whatever. -- He did what he was told until he was allowed to do something else.

Same thing after his ride. Each horse was led over to the wash rack, hosed off and then tied to a rail to dry. They stood there until someone came to get them and put them in their stalls. From 30 minutes to 3 hours. At a cowboy's place, horses are horses: they stay where they are put until you go get them. Period.

What really "cured" Petey was this philosophy of "You're a horse. Get over yourself".

He was a hard nut because of all the years I had spoiled him (and the NH lady had coochie-coo'd him and tried to bribe him into being good). It took the cowboy 4 months before I could ride him under supervision and 2 more months before he could come home.

I was told not just how to ride him, but how to treat him. Patting him was not OK. He was not to be rewarded for doing his job He was expected to do his job. (Yea, right. Like that was gonna happen. Like I could actually NOT pat my horse. )

But we have gotten along well, with only a blip or 2 since then. And I have the skills to work through it. If not, I can cart his butt right back there for a freshener.

To remind him that he. is. just. a. horse.

(instead of my precious pookie )

To me, THAT's what a cowboy is: no frills, no fuss -- just treat the horse like a horse whose job it is to be man's beast of burden. A cowboy does not do anything harmful. He just has an attitude that we HJ people don't: The horse will do what we want it to do because otherwise it is a useless chunk of Alpo on the hoof. The horse does not argue. No option.

The cost was $500/month for board and training. They have now gone to $600 because I told them they were far too cheap.

[Bats79]

The cost was $500/month for board and training. They have now gone to $600 because I told them they were far too cheap.

You cannot get this type of training in Australia for under US1,000 per month. Not anywhere as far as I can tell.

[mvp]

Horse training is not rocket science

Absolutely send your horse to a good pro (wearing any clothing-- but a nice butt in a pair of wranglers doesn't hurt to ol' eyes.)

If the pro says all will be cured on the ground, and you have an under saddle problem, that's not the one I'd choose. If the cowboy won't get on, I can't.

If the pro can't explain what he's doing and why, pick another. Most will want you to be involved. If you won't or can't do some version of what he does and get the same results, then either your horse isn't finished yet or you need to choose another pro, or you need to look at your own side of things.

For horses who need to be shown a boundary, no 30-day cure will work if you don't continue with the new set of rules the cowboy set up for your horse.

Also, I know some horses can be very tough and smart, but I don't get the "she has my number. Game over" phenomenon. We are so much smarter than they are. Why not change your number until the horse stops looking and accepts her job?

[katarine]

Also, I know some horses can be very tough and smart, but I don't get the "she has my number. Game over" phenomenon. We are so much smarter than they are. Why not change your number until the horse stops looking and accepts her job?

Because it just isn't a personality match. Friend of mine got a nice, pretty 6 YO mare free b/c to the owner, she was dangerous. Owner had managed to freeze up and flip the mare over on her. Mare is actually fine- a TITCH spoiled but nothing ample saddle pads and consistent fair work won't improve. Mare just needs leadership, no petting and fussing and spoiling her. Me, I don't find it cute that the mare was taught to swing her butt to you to ask you to scratch it. Me, I say I tied you there to tack you up, scoot your ass back over where I left it. But former owner just thought it was sweet and precious. So, I sold former owner a lazy gelding who will never dream of getting bothered about anything, it's too much work, and he's polite about accepting treats.

MVP your post assumes all people can, and want to be, the leader. Some just won't or can't, step up.

[birdsong]

I own Sandy M's kind of horse -- He would take 2 steps and explode. Fold in half and come up through the saddle like a volcano. My first 2 rides on him and I never made the 8 second buzzer. 2 concussions, broken arm and broken ribs.

This was NOT just a young horse who needed work. This was a horse with a real problem. (Not physical. I spent $$$$ ruling out all physical problems.)

Off he went to a NH lady -- for 3 months and $3000; she got him "looking at her out of both his eyes". Result: he flung both of us to the ground. So much for NH and my $3000.

Off to the nearby cutting horse trainer. Thank God! The man knew what he was doing and how to deal with problem horses. He kept his staff safe and my horse safe and he got the job done.

He has a 16.2h "pony" which my horse (16.2h 3 year old) was hitched to daily (via rope from halter to saddle horn) and Petey was forced to go and stop and turn and stop whenever the cowboy and his horse did. He did not like it, he resisted, but to no avail.

Then a Western saddle was added and this was repeated until Petey ignored the saddle.

Then a rider was added. Petey had no chance to bolt or buck. His head was in the cowboy's lap. He was captive.

His riding time was only part of his total training. He was put on the walker with a saddle on and stayed on it until it was time for him to be taken to the ring. 30 minutes, 90 minutes, whatever. -- He did what he was told until he was allowed to do something else.

Same thing after his ride. Each horse was led over to the wash rack, hosed off and then tied to a rail to dry. They stood there until someone came to get them and put them in their stalls. From 30 minutes to 3 hours. At a cowboy's place, horses are horses: they stay where they are put until you go get them. Period.

What really "cured" Petey was this philosophy of "You're a horse. Get over yourself".

He was a hard nut because of all the years I had spoiled him (and the NH lady had coochie-coo'd him and tried to bribe him into being good). It took the cowboy 4 months before I could ride him under supervision and 2 more months before he could come home.

I was told not just how to ride him, but how to treat him. Patting him was not OK. He was not to be rewarded for doing his job He was expected to do his job. (Yea, right. Like that was gonna happen. Like I could actually NOT pat my horse. )

But we have gotten along well, with only a blip or 2 since then. And I have the skills to work through it. If not, I can cart his butt right back there for a freshener.

To remind him that he. is. just. a. horse.

(instead of my precious pookie )

To me, THAT's what a cowboy is: no frills, no fuss -- just treat the horse like a horse whose job it is to be man's beast of burden. A cowboy does not do anything harmful. He just has an attitude that we HJ people don't: The horse will do what we want it to do because otherwise it is a useless chunk of Alpo on the hoof. The horse does not argue. No option.

The cost was $500/month for board and training. They have now gone to $600 because I told them they were far too cheap.

When you pass a QH training ranch and you see horses tied out...they are being taught patience!!
I took one of mine to a local trainer exactly as you described...after being worked , walked, hosed, he was then tied in his stall or to a hitching post ...daily. I took him the next day after one of his little explosions that resulted in broken ribs.
People who want to criticize QH trainers are really clueless to the philosophy. These guys usually end up with a finished horse that is sensible and mostly safe.
Too many people treat their horses like "Fluffy" and mince around them allowing them to get away with everything.

[saultgirl]

Well, I had a cowgirl start my then 3 year old. SHe had him 90 days. I took him home and we were doing fine, then DST ended - and I ended up on the ground. He wouldn't let me mount him from the mounting block.... and if I did manage to get him to stand still long enought to mount, he'd take about one step from the mounting block and explode. Aaargh. I called the cowgirl and took him back. She worked with him when I first arrived, and "fixed" at least for the moment, the mounting issue. However, he didn't even TRY to buck with her, and she felt that it was something he didn't try with her - his trainer - but was testing me with. She gave me some ground work exercises, and a way to cope with his bucking (pulling his head up and booting him forward was NOT sufficient), and we went home after a long weekend, and haven't had any major issues since. He kept testing me for a while, but when he reached fully age 4, he's evolved (!) to merely doing normal horsey spooks, rather than illustrating his talent for a job at the NFR. He's 5.5 now, and while he's a bit touchy at present - we're rehabbing from a slight ligament tweak and he is not getting enough exercise, but vet has limited him to 30 min walking under saddle per day - over-all he's behaving well. I would not hesitate to go back to her if I needed help for non-dressage issues. (She has taken dressage lessons from my instructor on her "working ranch horse" show horse.)

What is DST and NFR?

[mvp]

Yeah, katarine, I'll be first in line behind you to acknowledge that people can't or won't become the dominant leader their horse needs. I have worked with horses that require more "reminders" about who's in charge than I want to bother with.

My point is that I don't own those horses. Nor do I think everyone should feed a horse whose personality isn't really, really pleasing to them. It just costs too much and there are too many others out there to justify the struggle.

My other point was that no "cowboy fix" works unless we continue what the dude did.

[birdsong]

NFR is the National Finals Rodeo..don't know the other one.

[katarine]

Yeah, katarine, I'll be first in line behind you to acknowledge that people can't or won't become the dominant leader their horse needs. I have worked with horses that require more "reminders" about who's in charge than I want to bother with.

My point is that I don't own those horses. Nor do I think everyone should feed a horse whose personality isn't really, really pleasing to them. It just costs too much and there are too many others out there to justify the struggle.

My other point was that no "cowboy fix" works unless we continue what the dude did.

I misunderstood you then. Your wording of change your number until the horse realizes it's his JOB, not his choice, per se, is what I was responding to. I was saying folks won't look in the mirror and decide to change THEIR own number, that's too much work/too much spine/too, SOMETHING...What you meant, sounds like, is change the HORSE's zip code (number ) and find one that you do enjoy

[katarine]

What is DST and NFR?

I'm thinking Daylight Savings Time....

[mvp]

'K- sorry for the long conversation between me and katarine.

Actually, I did mean that the human "changed her number" in the sense that we can think circles around these brutes without too much effort. If we want to keep a horse, why not just out think it? I have no opinion about whether or not any horse is worth the effort, but I did mean that it's a small one.

The most dangerous and frustratingly "stupid" or "recalcitrant" horses I have "fixed" benefitted from being given a mentally taxing job. It's hard to hatch an evil plot or make the same mistake over and over when you are busy just figuring out what the boss wants next.

Back to the topic!

[kookicat]

'K- sorry for the long conversation between me and katarine.

Actually, I did mean that the human "changed her number" in the sense that we can think circles around these brutes without too much effort. If we want to keep a horse, why not just out think it? I have no opinion about whether or not any horse is worth the effort, but I did mean that it's a small one.

The most dangerous and frustratingly "stupid" or "recalcitrant" horses I have "fixed" benefitted from being given a mentally taxing job. It's hard to hatch an evil plot or make the same mistake over and over when you are busy just figuring out what the boss wants next.

Back to the topic!

Doesn't always work- think of the older rider who mounts, horse pitches a fit and chucks her off. Next time rider mounts, is tense/worried, so horsie gets tense and worried, and chucks her off again, and it gets to be a cycle.

That sort of gut reaction you can't always change.