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Random color comment

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  • Random color comment

    I remembered a horse that a friend of mine had from my younger days and looked up that horse on the pedigree site, the horse is now long dead. No age related jokes plz.

    One thing I remembered is this particular horse is black, one of my favorite colors in a horse. Since I like to look at bloodlines I looked to see where the color came from. If everything is right in the pedigree the horse that passed that gene down was born 6 generations before. No other black horses in the line, mostly chestnuts.

    Wierd. Im pretty sure I dont have anything from my greatgreatgreat grandparents!
    “Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.” Peter Drucker

  • #2
    What about bays?


    • #3
      If both parents of this horse were listed as chestnuts, and there were no blacks or bays for many generations, then there is a mistake somewhere. 2 chestnuts bred together will always produce a chestnut foal. A bay or black horse cannot have 2 chestnut parents.

      If the site was pedigree query, remember that the info there is user-entered and can be incorrect. The colors may be wrong or the horse's pedigree may be entered incorrectly.

      Red/chestnut (e) is the recessive gene. Now, red can hide for generations.

      Black (E) is the dominant gene. If it is there, it will be expressed. It doesn't hide.

      Now if a black horse has an agouti gene (A) or two, the horse will appear as a bay because agouti pushes the black coloring to the points. A red horse can also have agouti, but in that case you will not see the gene as there is no black pigment for it to act on. Agouti can be hidden for years in chestnut horses and eventually pop up visibly when a black horse breeds into the line.


      • Original Poster

        There were a few bays a few gens away. But this horses parenst were listed as chestnut. The info is entered by the breed assoc so if there was a mistake it came from the owners.
        “Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.” Peter Drucker


        • #5
          Well then someone made a mistake somewhere... or dad wasn't who they thought he was... or else the horse is a genetic mutant


          • #6
            What breed was it? Could the black horse really have been black chestnut? (I have seen a Morgan that was this color and most people would have called him simply black)


            • Original Poster

              The people that bred this horse are wellknown breeders. A mistake is possible but not easily made.

              What is a black chestnut?
              “Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.” Peter Drucker


              • #8
                There are some pics of black chestnuts near the bottom of this page: http://www.ultimatehorsesite.com/colors/chestnut.html

                It's a really really really really dark liver chestnut that almost appears black. So I suppose that's a possibility since genetically the horse would still be chestnut (ee) but could seem to be black in appearance.


                • #9
                  This horse is chestnut. http://www.morgancolors.com/merwinsallabreeze.jpg

                  Horses being so dark they "look black" aren't terribly common, but they arent impossible either.

                  Also it is possible that a parent was actually Wild Bay (a bay with VERY low black points) and thus was registered chestnut, but really wasn't.
                  Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!


                  • Original Poster

                    IIRC the horse was pretty dark w/ no white. RMT maybe like yuor picture but not as light as furlong47.

                    Can bay x chestnut = black?
                    “Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.” Peter Drucker


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JohnDeere View Post

                      Can bay x chestnut = black?