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Another thread about rearing---AND strangers teaching horses bad habits.

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  • Another thread about rearing---AND strangers teaching horses bad habits.

    I'm soooooooooooo angry. My horses are backed up against a public road, very often visited by people. Most, just come up and throw carrots/apples and such into the paddocks. WELL, I was out there the other day and this guy was really close to the fence with one of my colts with my colts neck wrapped around his body. I went to check things out and the guy was holding a carrot behind his back and letting this colt push on him, lean on him and tug on him and his clothes!!!!!!!!! I said, oh gosh don't let him do that!! Your teaching a COLT bad habbits! Your rewarding him for being pushy! He just laughed and said how much he loved him. I immediatly moved him out of there to a new area. After 3 days in the barn (he was getting turned out into the arena for play and some free lunging), he really needed to have some outside time. I found out from some of the care takers the guy has been coming over 2 times a day!!!!!!!!! UGH!!! My husband 2 weeks ago found a 12 PCK of BEER in his paddock!!!!!!!!!!! Like someone was out there for a night and drank. I'm getting concerned now because: my colt ran up to me and when putting the halter on pushed into me, I got big and asked him to back off with attitude and driving hands. He REARED!! When I got the halter on him he put his nose on me and got a bit pushy again---I made him back out of my space---he reared again!!!! I got a stud chain----and we had a space lesson in which he reared up several more times and got away twice! After, I took him into the arena and worked him, to include, but not limited to, making him do some yeilding of the hind quarters, backing with me, backing away when asking and other submissive things, I made him then spent 4 hours tied up because I didn't want my attitude to conflict with work. He was working good, but I was really feeling he needed some more handling time. So, from what I have learned from my cowboy friends, I tied him up. Now, here I am. I don't know if I made this worse---or better. This guy has ruined my sweet quiet easy going kind boy. ERRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

    PLEASE, any ideas???????????????? I absolutly am so depressed about this and angry. I need help and need it fast. Should I send him into training with people who are used to this? (Cowboys, ones that are brake and know how to handle this--because no dressage trainer I know is going to take this boy--too risky for their lively hood...since they mostly train-trained horses and this isn't on their catalog for types of horses to take in.). I'm so disgusted. It is very frightening to see a horse do this. He is now off his grain for a while and will be going to work for a while. He is 2. I'm also wondering if this would now be a common reaction--since he is so good at it now.

    I have him in the barn away from any public feeding....taking him off grain (because I think that is part of the problem. He has this hotish attitude lately, I think it could be from going from 1 cup of TC lite, to 3.5lbs of stratagy this last week. He has been on this for a week.) ---I will just will get his vit./BOSS/Flax. and start with 1 cup again. I only was feeding so much Stratagy, because he all the sudden sprouted in his hind end and I thought he may need a bit more fuel and wanted to add weight for the show ring. NOT WORTH IT! I'm so depressed. I have never ever never had a horse with a rearing problem---but, have seen friends with this problem and crindged. I have had horses for around 27 years and have raised over 60 foals....with no such problems, including colts raised to very well mannered stallions. ???????? I feel like a total amature as far as this is concerned. It is new to me.....not having a colt, but the rearing problem....I have NEVER had a "rearing" problem. He doesn't just go half way up....he goes completely UP.
    Last edited by Horsecrazy27; Apr. 16, 2007, 10:39 PM. Reason: Edited to make things more clear.
    *Better to have loved than to have never loved at all.*
    ALWAYS Blessings NEVER losses.

  • #2
    Put some serious barbed/razor wire between the fence and the road. Works like a charm for me. Though in my case, it's used for animals and not people but the result is the same.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      I don't think this picky City would allow that.......I'm going to check on the hot wire.....but, the same thing. I don't know if the City will allow it =-or the barn owner. .

      What a shame this has come to this.
      *Better to have loved than to have never loved at all.*
      ALWAYS Blessings NEVER losses.

      Comment


      • #4
        Isn't that man trespassing? I believe that is illegal. Next time you see him out in the field, call the police.
        "There are only two emotions that belong in the saddle; one is a sense of humour and the other is patience."

        Comment


        • #5
          First... I hope I understood correctly... it sounds like the horse is boarded? Is that correct?

          Honestly, if it's not resolved quickly and there isn't an option for another pasture in a different area, etc, I'd move the horse.

          Now if you owned the barn, I'd look into other options, but since you don't you don't have a lot of options.

          It's just not worth ruining your horse...
          http://www.leakycreek.com/
          http://leakycreek.wordpress.com/ Rainbows & Mourning Doves Blog
          John P. Smith II 1973-2009 Love Always
          Father, Husband, Friend, Firefighter- Cancer Sucks- Cure Melanoma

          Comment


          • #6
            Maybe I'm not familiar with your training methods, but what good does it do to make a horse stand tied up for four hours? Timeouts don't really work for animals, because they don't have a concept of right and wrong and punishment doesn't really work unless dealt out immediately after the action. The horse is just going to see you as that lady who made him stand tied up for four hours for no reason and try to evade you even more.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by anabug View Post
              Maybe I'm not familiar with your training methods, but what good does it do to make a horse stand tied up for four hours?

              I was wondering about this too.


              This horse has learned that rearing gets him out of what he doesn't want to do - the time for correction was right after the event (had he done that to me, it would have been a quick short pop, and a "Quit!", and probably some work time to re-establish the ground manners. A 'time out' doesn't do anything productive that I can see.
              Euthanasia is taking their pain away and making it your own. ~ Laurierace

              Comment


              • #8
                He probably reared as an "outburst behavior" to being told something he couldn't do.

                Make him realize this was a terrible idea. Fend him off any means possible. Yelling and throwing something like a rubber feed pan at them has worked for me.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well, it sounds as if you are doing as much as you can to squelch this colt's bad behavior (taking away the grain is a good idea for the time being).

                  The only other things I might suggest are:

                  Buying a "Be Nice" halter for your colt and leading him with that. Do not tie him up wearing that halter though! When he tries to rear it will put pressure on his poll, when he comes comes down it will release pressure. He could be seriously injured if you try to tie him with that halter and he panics--so don't do it!

                  Try to do something about this dimbulb who is visiting your horse twice a day. Talk to the barn owner, and with the police if you have to about the situation. Someone is going to get hurt--the guy, or your colt. You need to stop this person now!

                  Tieing the horse up isn't going to hurt anything. It'll teach your horse patience!

                  I would give the colt a few days to see what your changes (no grain, working with him) will do. It could just be a phase that he is going through.... Is he gelded????
                  "I'm not much into conspiracy theories but if everyone thinks alike you don't need a plot!" ~person from another bulletin board whose name has been long forgotten~

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A lot of babies rear when their feet get "stuck". It usually happens when you ask them to back or yield, and they haven't quite figured out that they can. As long as you're not in danger, just calmly work through it by continuing to ask the horse to back or yield and rewarding the correct answer. Getting mad because they reared solves nothing. The one exception is when they are crystal clear about what's being ask and just decide to say, "No!" That's when you get after their haunch (support base for the rear - they can't move it and stay up and very effectively) or try to get him in the chest on the way up. A good whack in the chest at the beginning of the rear is difficult to time though and requires being very close to the horse.

                    I think a lot of ground work with this colt will get you over the hump. I suspect since he's rearing that he may respond to new requests and lessons with that same tactic. I've had one horse like that - quite dominant and bullying on the ground. What it boiled down to is that she really didn't have the confidence to try. Every new request was met with a tantrum first and thinking second when I didn't remove the pressure. She got it, and all is well. But I would still describe working with her as trying to cultivate an "I can" attitude versus allowing her to become overly frustrated. Some horses are just like that.
                    "I did know once, only I've sort of forgotten." - Winnie the Pooh

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      anabug and carosel..... I did correct him immediatly!! I did work him immediatly and working with submissive tacticts. I corrected him with a snatch on the lead rope and "HEY" in my "be ware--your in trouble" type of voice. Which is why once he reared he also spun to run. I worked with him for an HOUR after the incident, but felt he could use some alone time and we call it the "patience pole". I did great at holding him and basically trying to get him to move his rear feet to throw him off balance, he did get away twice. But, he reared around 12 times!!! I put the stud chain on him, to have it "bite" him if he reared--he did, it did and he looked at me like "how'd you do that?" It was a bad day. I must say, I kept my attitude in check, temper in check and had my thinking cap on, on how to fix this. Tying.....maybe it is an Arizona thing----or a Qtr horse thing, but it is a way of teaching him patience, standing, and a way to have the horse be controlled with out working him. If you drive around here, he see Qtr horse farms with horses tied up all day long.....I learned this from a guy that I dated who was a cowboy and also his family raised TB's for the track. Their horses were always complimented on behavior. It is a training tool. He actually hasn't spent much time tied----all my other youngsters have. This place isn't really set up for it. So, he was tied in his stall.

                      GRA.... YES, I would say he is trespassing, but it is a public facility???? I have never caught him out there drinking beer, just saw the cans. BUT, if I did, I would call the cops. I think he has tried to ride my older guy...because he has been acting funny too.

                      I AM BOARDING these horses and there is not much "pasture" places here in AZ.....this is actually one of the last in this immed. area---if not the last. There is a place down the road, but they are 700 a month. OUCH. I have 7 horses.

                      I don't want to tick this guy off either and have him hurt my horses.

                      GOSH, I can't wait till our ranch is done. This is getting so old. I have another 9 months. GULP!
                      *Better to have loved than to have never loved at all.*
                      ALWAYS Blessings NEVER losses.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Hi Cherry and Aggie...

                        he is a colt==not gelded yet, because he had a lot of promise.

                        I'm going to give him a few weeks to straighten out.....

                        I think it is a bit of both things described, a "NO" and maybe his feet were stuck. When asking to back, he stands first wtih a question on his face, then asking harder, he looks agrivated that I would ask, then I ask harder and I want serious backing and he goes up. I use some of PP on him and of course lots of normal stuff....that I have done my whole life.....

                        Again, I have raised lots of horses, so believe me, I have a GREAT, "QUIT" voice. LOL

                        I will change my attitude more--as I agree with Aggie about that and will see what I come up with.

                        HORSES. LOL
                        *Better to have loved than to have never loved at all.*
                        ALWAYS Blessings NEVER losses.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ah yes - the old Rock, meet hard place...

                          Especially seeing the latest act of horse 'abuse' that was posted... *shudder*

                          F'ing sickos out there... *shudder*
                          Euthanasia is taking their pain away and making it your own. ~ Laurierace

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It doesn't really matter if it's a public place (which I'm not sure if it is....depends on where you are.) the horses themselves are PRIVATE property, and shouldn't be touched.

                            There's nothing wrong with stringing up a little electric wire, offer to do it for your barn owner. The minor expense is worth it, in my opinion. I personally am horrified that your barn owner has allowed it to continue....TWICE A DAY??? Thats a lot of time to come look at someone else's horses, especially when you're no longer a five year old.

                            Write yourself up a nice contact, saying that the horse is worth $40,000, and if the man does anything that results in harm coming to the horse, he is responsible for all vet bills and the $40,000 price tag. Doesn't have to be real, but maybe you walking over there and letting him take a look-see at it will make him go find someone else's horses to bother.


                            I mean, good god, think of the liability that him riding your older horse creates?! What if he falls? You know he's not going to go "Oh, whoops, shouldn't have been on the horse in the first place!" It's going to be "Your horse is a dangerous killer and bucked me off...I want compensation!"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Since you've raised lots of horses, then you know that some young ones -- especially colts -- will rear when they're excited and you correct them. You also must know that 2 is the age when they'll really starting pushing the boundaries. They do it with other horses and they do it with humans, too. I haven't raised nearly as many youngsters as you have and I've had several who did the same thing. Nobody was playing with them. It's just part of being a youngster for some horses. But it has to be nipped in the bud. And you still need to move him to somewhere Mr. Friendly can't get at him.

                              If it's a chronic problem, you'll find out next time you work with him. If you're not comfortable dealing with it, find someone who will work with him calmly and firmly. Something tells me you both got way too wound up and that's why he kept going up.

                              And don't for one second believe that the colt connected his 4-hour stint at the "patience pole" with his previous pushy behavior. If you want to teach a horse to tie and stand quietly that way, fine. But don't do it because he has misbehaved.
                              Last edited by mp; Apr. 16, 2007, 04:09 PM.
                              __________________________
                              "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                              the best day in ten years,
                              you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by anabug View Post
                                Maybe I'm not familiar with your training methods, but what good does it do to make a horse stand tied up for four hours? Timeouts don't really work for animals, because they don't have a concept of right and wrong and punishment doesn't really work unless dealt out immediately after the action. The horse is just going to see you as that lady who made him stand tied up for four hours for no reason and try to evade you even more.
                                I was wondering the same thing.
                                Also, why take the horse off grain. It sounds like this a behavioral issue and not a feed issue.
                                I personally do not see how restraining your horse and depriving it of grain is going to solve your problem.
                                Training, not punishment is called for here.

                                I agree with the poster that said next time you catch this person out there to call the police has the right idea.

                                I would move my horse to another pature if possible. If this isn't possible, I would find another barn to board at.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I don't think tying him up right after you got firm with him is going to help the situation. If he gets in your space, use your body to block him and it needs to be a firm block, but don't look at him in the eyes when you do it. If you don't look at him in the eyes, he will think it was his fault, which it was. And he will then think...man I better not do that again or I will run into her arm or whatever you used as your block.

                                  And a stud chain is surely not going to help. As a matter of fact, I KNOW it will only make the situation worse. The be nice halter is a very good tool, and Parelli also makes a really good natural halter ( that I prefer ) with their lead rope as well.

                                  Getting frusturated will only get you more angry and your colt more afraid of you. Horses know when they have gotten a human frusturated! And then in turn, he will only start to push you around and dominant you more.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Parelligirl82 View Post
                                    If he gets in your space, use your body to block him and it needs to be a firm block, but don't look at him in the eyes when you do it. If you don't look at him in the eyes, he will think it was his fault, which it was. And he will then think...man I better not do that again or I will run into her arm or whatever you used as your block.
                                    .
                                    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
                                    -George Morris

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Parelligirl82 View Post
                                      If he gets in your space, use your body to block him and it needs to be a firm block, but don't look at him in the eyes when you do it. If you don't look at him in the eyes, he will think it was his fault, which it was. And he will then think...man I better not do that again or I will run into her arm or whatever you used as your block.
                                      I wouldn't have too much problem with this advice if it were applied to a calm, attentive, generally well-behaved, well-broke horse that doesn't have any inclination to tread over human flesh. But we are talking about a 2 year old colt, whose testosterone levels are beginning to kick into full gear on top of the fact that he's entering the terrible twos. Body blocking this type of horse is an invitation for injury.
                                      "I did know once, only I've sort of forgotten." - Winnie the Pooh

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        If you do not have the knowledge (which most people do not) for a 2 year old stud colt, then you have no business having one. PERIOD!!!

                                        I am an avid Natural Horsemanship follower, and since I have been studying Naturally I have NEVER seen anyone not feed their horse because it was bad, use a stud chain on their horse, tie their horse for hours because they mis-behaved. Horses DO NOT understand that kind of negative reinforcement. You have to communicate with them in a way they understand. And if you don't know how to do that whether it be a colt, a filly or a 25 year old horse...they want to be asked to do something, not told!

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