• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Elderly Owner/Horse=Euthanasia Debate with BO

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    [QUOTE=spurgirl;4478830]OK, To clarify a few things/QUOTE]

    Thanks for adding more info. Glad to know that there isn't anything odd going on. You just never know.

    I know no one wants to be the bad guy - and I know that these decisions can be hard on families. The attorney in fact may feel horrible about putting mom's old horse down - knowing that mom isn't far behind - it's just really emotional and draining and guilt ridden.

    I think having a vet's evaluation is going to give the atty in fact the objective, realistic advice that they need to make the decision. (Which appears to be a perfectly reasonable one).

    What you might suggest is that the tack be given to a local horse rescue or therapeutic riding school - where it can be used to bring happiness to another horse and rider - just like the happiness the mother experienced with horses.

    Softening the blow of a difficult decision. The patient may not be able to understand what has happened, but the horse is in no danger or pain, the mother is not at risk, and the family can bring happiness to others.

    Full circle.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #42
      I talked to one of the children this afternoon. They are probably going to have an evaluation done soon, especially to see how arthritic he is. Winters here are not severe snow-wise, but we are near the coast, and the dampness is horrible when you have arthritis (I know, I have it)....I offered trailering, and a dignified burial on my farm, if the BO refuses to allow it there. I also requested any pictures they may have, as my daughter could probably make up a nice scrapbook for owner (we did one for the 50+ year 4H club they ran). I know she looks at that often, even though she can't remember the names and places anymore....Thanks to those who mentioned some type of memory book.

      I told them I would Ebay the tack if they would like, or try to sell it locally... I didn't think of donating to a theraputic facility, but that's a wonderful idea. I know the saddle was a nice deep seated Stubben of some age, so it would be super comfy for those with special needs. There is a reputable place near here, and if permission is granted, I'll do that.

      It's all so sad....Just seven years ago this woman, her twin sister, and their steeds would do trail rides, hunter paces-miles and miles long. The sis and her horse have passed, as has the husband. Add her acute memory loss, and all the infirmities...it's so hard to remember the wonderful times, when harsh reality has invaded so cruelly.

      Thanks again for all the ideas and kind thoughts.

      Comment


      • #43
        She is so fortunate to have you on her side, looking out on her behalf and for her beloved horse. Good luck with getting her horse checked out and something decided.

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by AiryFairy View Post
          There's dignity, which is likely already gone, and there is compassion to cushion the indignities of Alzheimer's to avoid unnecessary distress. A white lie, or a more palatable story that they won't remember long term anyway but will react less stressfully to will do no harm nor will it take away any dignity. There is something to be said for making a bad situation as easy as possible to spare the woman any painful news.

          And yes, I have been there. When my grandmother repeatedly asked when her husband was coming home in the weeks after he died, we finally stopped telling her that he had died when she reacted each time (several times an hour) like it was the first time she'd heard it and was nearly hysterical. We then said "he's coming in a little while", to which her reaction was "ok", and that was it. She still asked ten times a day, it was just a less stressful answer to which she didn't react violently, it was much easier on her.
          I agree with you 100%- a white lie, a palatable story is kind. Where I was going (and dropped the ball) is that we never know exactly if *that moment* we tell a bold face lie is the one moment in that day when the affected person is lucid. This is true during early to mid-level dementia. Unfortunately as many of us have already experienced, there can come a time when nothing is comprehended. From the OP's observations I did not sense that the infirm woman being discussed was at end phase dementia.

          One thing is for sure, this post is overflowing with compassion and concern isnt' it?? Good horse folks are one of kind.

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by BabyGreen View Post
            Unfortunately, I've seen situations where families of elderly people try to maximize the estate by talking/strong-arming parents into selling assests or getting rid of expenses. Unless the horse is really at the end of its life, I'd like to see it stay where it is. Maybe the elderly mother should have a court-appointed guardian to look after herinterests. Board for a horse is nothing compared to nursing home care. The children should have enough respect for the parent to agree to this.
            I haven't finished this thread yet but wholeheartedly agree - it's very sad what people do to thier elderly relatives to slow the drain on the estate down.

            If this woman is of the means then the horse should stay right where it is on the off chance that her owner gets that one last opportunity to see him and perhaps sit on him. Unless I misread, it sounds like she did this not too long ago. How could relatives break this woman's heart unnecessarily because it doesn't make financial sense for them? She might have one clear headed day where she is able to go enjoy her boy again. She has been with him longer than many people are ever married. How could anyone take that away from her?

            It sounds like she is declining but is still able to go to church and be active on some level. why not make sure her old buddy is there for her to visit as it doesn't sound like she will be able to do so for much longer anyway.

            I would take him in as a buddy for my filly for the food/vet/trims and burying him elsewhere when the time is necessary. My barn is probably not suitable though, two stall used as a run in, cold winters...

            Comment


            • #46
              Apparently, this horse isn't doing well. An outside source needs to be brought in to evaluate the horse. An unbiased, third opinion would be a great idea. Explain the situation and be honest.

              A little white lie won't hurt her in her situation. It would be the kindest thing to be done.

              As far as the horse is concerned, the right thing will be done. Putting them down a day too soon is far kinder than a day to late. Plan a nice quiet day and put him at ease.

              Put the needs of the horse first, and the right thing will be done!

              How kind of you for keeping the woman, family, BO, and the horse in mind. Your are far kinder than many!
              Life is too short to argue with a mare! Just don't engage! It is much easier that way!

              Have fun, be safe, and let the mare think it is her idea!

              Comment


              • #47
                I'm really not sure how anyone can give advice on what to do for the best with this horse when the OP hasn't seen it for a year and none of us have seen it. Maybe the horse is doing just fine for an oldie? I have horses here who are much older than this old boy and they tick along quite happily with life. Most of them have barely any teeth but I feed them correctly and they keep their weight nice and stable.

                As for people not taking old horses. Really that is a bit of a blanket statement, some people do. I did last year when I took an old boy in his 30's. He's still going strong and I still take him out for rides. He's never been a ride for novices by all accounts and he still isn't suitable for them but I enjoy riding him and he loves to go out. He only has 4 working teeth left so I feed him accordingly and he looks lovely.

                Now as to the old lady - well who knows what is best here BUT there does seem to be questions about finances, about whether the horse can survive a mild but wet winter, and whether the owner may injure herself when she rides this horse. So presumably she does still ride the horse? She obviously still knows she has a horse then? In which case, no I don't think I could ever do anything without talking to the lady. I feel that would be dreadfully wrong, regardless of her having Alzheimers, she does have the right to know what is being planned for her dear old horse. Perhaps she is lucid enough to make whatever decision is best for the horse?

                I don't know, I just think there are way too many ifs and buts here to say categorically what is the best way to deal with this situation. The vets report (providing they are a well respected, unbiased vet) is one that needs to be done. If he says horse is better off being put down then I guess that is what needs to be done. As to how to tell the old lady, if she is to be told at all, well I don't know what's best, I just know that if she were my mother I simply could not deceive and lie to her about this one thing before it has even happened. I get what people are saying about once something/someone has gone and maybe telling a little white lie, but I'm not sure I could do it.

                Comment


                • #48
                  AnnaCrew, you are brilliant! I am sorry to read that your MIL is in such a bad way, but that is so kind of you and Peter to do what you've done for her. Your insight on this other situation is very helpful, since you have experience in this very issue.
                  Last edited by sdlbredfan; Nov. 2, 2009, 10:52 PM. Reason: fix typo and remove extra word
                  Jeanie
                  RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Tif_Ann View Post
                    Understand I'm biased going into this ... we have a horse that is a result of a situation like that. Shamall is a 29 yr old Egyptian Arabian that came to my family last year. He is not "ours" ... his human is without a doubt the man who had him since he was a baby. His human is the father of one of my parents' friends. About two years ago the son approached my parents because his father has Parkinson's and was looking for somewhere for Shamall to go as he faced his declining health and inability to care for him anymore. My mother went down to meet them - but turned out to be an interview on if SHE was good enough for Shamall!! All parties agreed but it was another several months before mom finally got the call to come get Shamall.

                    The pictures of the first interview are heartbreaking. Shamall and his human share a huge bond, and the sadness that comes out of the pictures just hurts. But Shamall has a home and that's what the owner knew had to happen. Just a couple months ago they were able to spend some time together at an event we all go to. You may think that horses don't have feelings or care about people, but Shamall perked up like he hasn't in a long time when he saw his man, and was very proud to show off that he can still be ridden and is beautiful. He was a very, very happy horse. Then ... after his man left ... he was very, very grumpy. Kicking out at other horses, throwing hsi bucket around his stall, etc ... not normal behaviours for him. I may anthropomorphize too much, but it seemed obvious to everyone that he was upset and confused about where his man went.

                    That in mind - why has no one talked to the elderly owner about her own horse? She's been a horse person for 80+ years. I'm sure she's had to make tough decisions before. "Protecting" her by lying to her just doesn't seem right, now, does it? I'd talk to her, she may be willing to let him go if she's a horse person herself ... even though it's hard. It's not right for anyone else to make that decision for her.

                    Is there an option of looking into a retirement farm at a reduced rate, or like Foxtrot mentioned - can you or someone you know take him in at a reduced board and get the tack as partial payment? I see you said you don't have a stall available - do you know anyone, even people with small backyard farms, who could take him in? You'd be surprised, there are many people like my mom in there, willing to take in a horse and provide a good home until it's time to say goodbye.

                    As others have said - it sounds like a good argument can be made for euthanization in this case. But I guess I don't understand why lying to the elderly owner is the wise choice ... instead of talking to her. She may have short term memory loss - but does she completely forget she owns a horse?
                    You are so right. Talk to the owner,even if she has memory issues. Let her say what she wants. My father had Alzheimers though most of the time he was fine. He got his kids confused but he didnt get the horse stuff wrong one bit. I tested him on things that he had told me, and his answers were the same as they had always been. He couldn't name my sister, one evening after having an exhausting day, but he looked at her, and said " I know you. You rode the nice little saddle mare hell for leather across the back yard and would holler whoa when you got to the fence! That was such a nice little mare." It broke my sisters heart that Daddy remembered the horse, but not her name. The horse and my sister had the same name.

                    Talk to the owner-do it when she is well rested and feeling good. Take someone with you that is in a position to make the owners wishes happen. Take her out to the barn and take lots of pictures.
                    http://community.webshots.com/album/548368465RfewoU[/url]

                    She may not have changed the stars from their courses, but she loved a good man, and she rode good horses….author unknown

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      How sad for everyone involved...

                      As a BO, I 'adopted' one of my boarder horses who was in a similar situation. I knew the family would not do right by him. I kept him for a short time, then quietly had him put down as he was not a horse who could be re-homed. It was hard to bear this cost, but worth every penny to know that he was treated with dignity, the way his original owner would have wanted.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X