Erin since it cannot be documented as true and the preponderance of the evidence says it is not true then it gets thrown out of court.
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The issue is SAFER than Kerry could or would do. Personal opinion and judgment. There is nothing on the record to confirm we would be safe at all with Kerry. There is evidence that we might be safe with Bush.Comment
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Snowbird: Teresa Heinz Kerry controls a foundation that was created from the sale of the Heinz Corporation many years ago. She took it over when her husband, a Republican senator, died in a plane crash. She has no connection with the public company and never has.
Though it has nothing to do with the topic at hand, here is an interesting quote from the Los Angeles Times about the early days of HJ Heinz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The progressive views of family patriarch H.J. Heinz were out of sync with early 20th century capitalism. He provided employees with medical care and adult education. Some of his factories had rooftop gardens where workers could relax.
It was in this era that armed guards for U.S. Steel killed 10 employees during the infamous 1892 Homestead strike at a plant in Pittsburgh. In a move laden with symbolism, Heinz Kerry would later purchase the abandoned U.S. Steel plant and turn it into a public park.
"He treated his workers better than anybody I have seen in the early 20th century," Nancy Koehn, a historian at Harvard Business School, said of H.J. Heinz. "He was the real deal."
H.J. Heinz was branded a traitor in some sectors of the food industry because he supported government intervention to ensure minimum safety standards. As food-processing scandals raged in the background, he pushed hard for the Pure Food and Drug Act of 1906, which created the Food and Drug Administration (news - web sites).
His son Howard, also deeply involved in public service, was sent to the Middle East by the Wilson administration after World War I to head famine-relief efforts. On the day H.J. Heinz died, Howard was delivering 30,000 tons of food to the region, where he witnessed the unfolding genocide that took the lives of 1.5 million Armenians.
Howard tried to get Wilson to send troops to halt the slaughter in harsh, remote areas of eastern Turkey and Armenia. In a dispatch to the president, he wrote, "I do not believe America, when she knows the truth, will be satisfied to have all our ideals of humanity thrown to one side while these people are murdered."
His pleas were ignored.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
linkIf you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony SnicketComment
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Well Snowbird, I can officially say I cannot make heads or tails of your post and haven't a clue what you are talking about in virtually any paragraph you wrote, least of all the one directed at me.
Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.
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I'm not putting down religion: Christian, Buddist, Hindu, Islamic, Jewish,....... but I don't think that the moonies are too far removed from davidians
faith is a wonderful gift but I don't believe that ANY religion should be used as justification for murder (in any form)Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)
The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”Comment
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Poltroon - Heinz-Kerry is connected to the Tides Foundation which contributes money to the radical left and has ties to Islamic (ie: Hamas) terroists.
What a foundation to be involved in!Comment
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I think believing in *all* religions as a way to hedge your bets against eternal damnation is an interesting definition of faith.
And what better way to say, "Nearer my God to thee" than to follow a religious leader who says he is the Supreme Deity, here on Earth among us?
You go, Rev. Sun Young Moon!
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Horseless in GA --
You might want to check out this link....
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/tides.aspComment
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but HeyYouNags - Koresh was better looking than Moon -- if you are going to follow that type of leader.......
Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)
The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”Comment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HeyYouNags:
I think believing in *all* religions as a way to hedge your bets against eternal damnation is an interesting definition of faith.
And what better way to say, "Nearer my God to thee" than to follow a religious leader who says he is the Supreme Deity, here on Earth among us?
You go, Rev. Sun Young Moon! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
AND gets a deification ceremony in the Capitol Rotunda, complete with crowing ceremony and a republican honor guard!
Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.
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Oh come on now...
Is this REALLY how we're going to decide who to vote for? Whether or not a candidate's WIFE might have made a contribution to a sketchy charity ages ago? Whether or not a candidate was in Cambodia on Christmas or the day after Christmas 30 years ago??
Come on. There's plenty of whacko drivel out there on the left too, but that's not what I bring into my conversations when I talk politics with people who disagree with me. I might forward the stuff to my liberal friends and we'll get a chuckle out of it (Bush's bulge, anyone?) but I'm not going to cite those things as reasons why I won't vote for the guy.
I really feel that this is pandering to the lowest common denominator. Both candidates have done plenty of things in OFFICE and on readily verifiable RECORD that should be discussed.Comment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Miss C:
Horseless in GA --
You might want to check out this link....
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/tides.asp <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Since first being published in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, CRC’s accusation has been picked up and expanded in opinion pieces in a number of newspapers, including the Wall Street Journal, the New York Post and the Washington Times. But not even these publications have leveled this allegation in actual news stories. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wait, isn't the Pittsburg Tribune-Review the one owned and operated by Mellon-Scaife? Oh my... If so, you gotta take that one with a grain of salt. Either that, or you need to also take Michael Moore as the absolute gospel of The Complete Truth About Republicans, because that is about the ONLY way you have a shot at some balance. Meanwhile the rest of us will stick with Snopes and factcheck.org for our reality based reporting.
Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.
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perhaps of interest to this discussion
see Oct 30th issue
http://www.economist.com/printedition/cover_index.cfm
http://www.economist.com/printeditio...cfm?d=20041030Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)
The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”Comment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>DMK the point is that the words we call things by don't change the truth of what they are. I am offended by this chastising of George W. because he believes what he believes but the total tolerance for the freedom of Oval Office by others who had less god reason for what they did. I'm not sure that I can respect a man for President whose church which he says he believes in tells the parishioners that it would be a sin to vote for him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Although GWB speaks about religion, he doesn't actually attend a church.
I don't really understand the Catholic hierarchy on this one. Why unborn children in the US are more important to them than live children dying in Iraq confuses me. Catholicism is also strongly against the death penalty, and yet I've never heard bishops say that should be a deciding factor in one's vote.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If someone doesn't approve of the Washington Times then do it because you don't approve and don't not approve because it's owned by a church you don't like. In fact there are two thirds of the world at any time that don't approve of any other religion but their own. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The Reverend Sun Myung Moon has sent millions of dollars of currency and also Russian nuclear submarines to North Korea.
US Intelligence believes that Moon bought the Washington Times specifically to improve his image and the image of North Korea.
Here's a fun quote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>In a speech to his followers on Aug. 4, 1996, Moon vowed to liquidate American individuality, declaring that his movement would “swallow entire America.†Moon said Americans who insisted on “their privacy and extreme individualism … will be digested.â€
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Moon is a fruitcake of the first order. I don't think he'd be your cup of tea either, Snowbird.
If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony SnicketComment
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Erin - to your previous point, as to content. let me use this example. Lets say I have a document here showing that you perform acts of self-gratification at least twice daily and I plan on publishing it. I also have at least 3 people who will state that they cannot vouch for the authenticity of it but that the content is true.
Should we all believe it?
not being snipey - just giving an example
Portia - Yes, I'll stand behind the story because if you follow the timeline of the story, the claims unraveled as fast as tehy came out. Rummy and Co are justdoing what a true leader should do, assess the situation BEFORE making assumptions. Is Kerry dong that, NOPE.
Erin - Yes, lets look at records - 20 years in the Senate, only 5 bills containing his name have come into law and those he was not a major sponsor of. Voted against military expansion and weapons projects, but FOR increasing taxes. Hmmm... what does that tell us...Love my Northampton CANTER Cutie - CessnaComment
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HeyYouNags:
I think believing in *all* religions as a way to hedge your bets against eternal damnation is an interesting definition of faith.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ned Flanders for President!
If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony SnicketComment
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It's also worth pointing out that its a minority of catholic bishops with this position. Meanwhile I am sure I can find a few born again religious leaders who think that voting for Bush is the Devil's work, so if it actually matters to you, consider that one a zero sum game.
poltroon, good point on catholicism. The whole idea of voting against one candidate for pro-life reasons, and voting for the one who is pro-death penalty is yet again, another zero sum game.Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CessnaPilot:
I also have at least 3 people who will state that they cannot vouch for the authenticity of it but that the content is true.
Should we all believe it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As this is generally the way reporters verify their stories, yes.
Have you ever seen or read "All The President's Men"? The story of how Woodward and Bernstein unraveled the Watergate scandal? They got snippets of information on and off the record and talked to people who could verify whether or not it was true.
Say I buy a ticket to this Sunday's Redskins game on eBay. Whoops, turns out the ticket is counterfeit. Does that meant the Skins aren't playing on Sunday?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Voted against military expansion and weapons projects, but FOR increasing taxes. Hmmm... what does that tell us... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Absolutely nothing, unless you know EVERY item in that bill, as someone mentioned earlier.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mighty mite:
Wow, I always thought Republicans were either incredibly stupid or incredibly selfish but you have just added 'very mean spirited' to the mix. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Let me understand--it's okay for you to label all Republicans as "incredibly stupid or incredibly selfish," yet Snowbird's comment qualifies her as "incredibly mean spirited?" Ha--and I bet you'd be the first to stand up and scream that REPUBLICANS are intolerant.Comment
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c'mon cessna, it sounds better if you get it right!
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> At the final presidential debate, Bush said Kerry had passed only five bills during his career, and Kerry said he had passed 56. Actually, we found eleven measures authored by Kerry have been signed into law, including a save-the-dolphins law, a law naming a federal building, a law giving a posthumous award to Jackie Robinson last year, and laws declaring "world population awareness weeks" in 1989 and 1991.
Bush counted only measures technically defined as "bills," leaving out four "joint resolutions" that also have the force of law, and he also omitted two laws whose House versions were adopted in a form nearly identical to Senate versions authored by Kerry.
When Kerry said "I've actually passed 56 individual bills that I've personally written" he was counting everything that had passed the Senate, whether or not it cleared the House. He also counts 24 resolutions that have no force of law. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But honestly, I think most non-partisan peopel who look at this admit tha tKerry's greatest strength is in working on critical investigations such as Iran Contra and the Saud banking issue (blanking on the acronym). But if you think passing bills is the be all end all sign of effective leadership, at least get the numbers right and try real hard not to bring up that Cheney record...
And you know that vote for tax cuts and against military spending is primarily spin, right?
And you didn't think we would let it pass that Kerry voted for reductions in military spending that - what was that guy's name? Oh right, CHENEY recommended. Because quite frankly both of them were smart enough to realize that we needed a different military to face a different kind of world. But if you want to diss Kerry for that, be sure you include all the culpable parties.
And tax hikes. Uh huh. Refer to factcheck.org - like snopes, it too can be your friend
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Recycled Bunkum: 350 Votes for Higher Taxes
As we've reported multiple times before , the claim that Kerry voted 350 times "for higher taxes" is highly misleading. As we said on March 23:
FactCheck.org: But in fact, Kerry has not voted 350 times for tax increases, something Bush campaign officials have falsely accused Kerry of on several occasions. On close examination, the Bush campaign’s list of Kerry’s votes for “higher taxes†is padded. It includes votes Kerry cast to leave taxes unchanged (when Republicans proposed cuts), and even votes in favor of alternative Democratic tax cuts that Bush aides characterized as “watered down.â€
More recently, we debunked the Bush campaign's improved claim that Kerry voted 98 times "for tax increases." That number is still padded, including 43 votes on budget measures that only set targets and don't actually legislate tax increases, as well as multiple votes regarding an individual bill. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.
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