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A VERY unscientific poll, Bush or Kerry?

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  • Hey Cessna:
    given that I live in New York, I can tell you that the protestors weren't allowed anywhere near the RNC. The streets around MSG were blocked off and only RNC badgeholder could get through. And protesters WERE limited to certain areas and subject to arrest if they ventured outside of those areas.

    Just to clarify that urban legend
    Visit us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/ranchopampa or our website at www.ranchopampa.com

    Comment


    • health care Why do all the people who can afford come here for medical treatment?

      women's issues Name me one country in the world except maybe Israel where women have more rights and are treated better.

      education Yes! we've screwed this one up because we have more adminstration per student than we need and so they have cut the arts and literature out of the Program. In the 1960's I interviewed the dean Of Montclair State Teacher's College for a radio show I volunteered to do for Seaton Hall. SHE SAID it was her job to teach the teachers how to teach the students to be mediocre. SHE SAID we don't want leaders and we don't want slackers we want everyone in the middle. WHY I ASKED and SHE SAID because in the world of the future everyone will either belong to a corporation or a union. If you're in a corporation and they make a 6% profit you don't want to make it 7% because the guy whose job you got will be mad at you because you made him look bad, and the guy who gets your job after you will be mad because you made his job harder.

      Well, it's been 35 years and she succeeded didn't she? They take all the bright kids out and isolate them for reconditioning against their malady; they take out all the dumber kids and isolate them in groups that are F+ so they actually think they know something until they get out into the real world. Then they do drugs and alcohol so they can still feel good thinking they're smart. The rest of the kids are put on Ritalin because the teachers don't have enough freedom to be able to cope with the occasional non-conforming rogue. And then they give the syndrome a name and a new pill.


      iraq/homeland security The flip flop king who voted for the money to support the troops and then voted against the money to support the troops and then cried because the troops didn't have the stuff they need because he as a Senator wouldn't spend the money. YEP! that's the guy I want to keep me safe! The guy who claimed to be a Vietnam hero to get elected but actually testified against his buddies after he was home safe. SURE I trust him to protect me and my kids.

      the economy & jobs Well I wonder how many jobs the Heinz company could make available. How many jobs will be lost if the minimum wage goes up to $8.50 and hour, how many small businesses will have to shut their doors and where will these people with minimum skills get a job? I know we'll have public works projects like Roosevelt did. I remember CCC Camps for the unemployed teenagers, and "poor" farms for the homeless yes! that is a viable solution.

      Environment Well whatever happened to Global Warming we needed some last winter in New Jersey? It doesn't matter anyway because we are do for a reverse of the electric polarity of the poles any time now. It happens every 25,000 years and just maybe those Mayans were right and it's going to happen in the year 2012. The Gaia protects herself, mother earth will knock us off with some plague. Get rid of your gas guzzlers I want that! Switch to the Fuel cell car! I want that! Get me the chance to get my electricty off a fuel cell. I'll donate my whole back field for windmills.

      Creatures have come and gone on earth for several million years. They just discovered an Island of "hobbits" that existed as little as 13,000 years ago. A whole community of people only 3'0' high. Do I think we should sacrifice California for some dumb little mouse? No! Do I think we should stop building homes for people in New Jersey because there is some dumb wood turtle that was seen somewhere? NO!
      http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

      Comment


      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>iraq/homeland security [b] The flip flop king who voted for the money to support the troops and then voted against the money to support the troops and then cried because the troops didn't have the stuff they need because he as a Senator wouldn't spend the money. YEP! that's the guy I want to keep me safe! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        Sigh....it's tough to be a senator and run for president. Snowbird, they ADD STUFF to bills that has nothing to do with the original bill. He voted for the bill at first, then the powers that be added in a bunch of junk about Halliburtin and he voted against that. I think that is one of the more annoying things about our legislature, that they're allowed to add stuff onto important bills to sneak them through. Kudos to Kerry for not letting them, but it sucks for the troops that they tried to mess with an otherwise very important bill.

        Comment


        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> women's issues Name me one country in the world except maybe Israel where women have more rights and are treated better.
          <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
          Canada, England, France, Germany, Switzerland, Scandanavia, Belgium.... I could go on. Women get free pre-natal care in all of those countries as a matter of course and have far greater access to birth control etc.

          Comment


          • Snowbird, ditto to what BLBGP said. I think anyone who takes the time to listen to Kerry's explanation of why he voted the way he does sees that it IS consistent. The problem is that few people take that time. They just listen to the ads that say "He voted for this, and then against this."

            I, for one, think it is a GOOD THING that someone who went to Vietnam came home and was so introspective and reflective about it that he was then willing to testify before Congress and say, "Hey, there's things going on over there that you should know about." I have actually read the text of Kerry's speech that day. I, personally, did not think he came across as saying that every soldier in Vietnam was a rapist or a baby killer. I understand that some veterans felt that way, and maybe it's just a matter of preception.

            It takes GUTS to look at your own (or your country's) actions with a critical eye and admit that mistakes have been made and that maybe you (or the country) is not on the right path.

            On the other hand, we have the Bush administration, which still insists that they haven't made any mistakes and they wouldn't have done anything differently. (Of course, in an election year, I suppose actually accepting responsibilty and admitting a mistake is political suicide, but still...) That SERIOUSLY bothers me. Running the country is tough, and I'm sure every president has made mistakes. I want a president and an administration that will LEARN from those mistakes.

            As for your argument on the environment, Snowbird, it doesn't make any sense and, quite frankly, insults the intelligence of people who believe the environment is a big issue. Bush's record on the environment is dismal. He ignores what legions of scientists say about the FACT of global warming and plays politics with the planet and with our future health by doing so.

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> health care Why do all the people who can afford come here for medical treatment?
              <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Yes, but there is a GOOD chunk of us who can't afford healthcare, and we aren't welfare mamas. We are people working for small businesses making $30-$40K per year with educations. And we put off the trip to the OB-GYN yet again because we can't afford insurance or the $400 doctor's visit.
              The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

              Comment


              • Bravo, Erin, on your great response!
                Beth Davidson
                Black Dog Farm Connemaras & Sport Horses
                http://blackdogconnemara.com
                visit my blog: http://ponyeventer.blogspot.com

                Comment


                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CessnaPilot:
                  Urban legends abound here....

                  However, take a look at the conventions - at the Democratic convention, protesters were literally caged up in an area away from the convention. Republican convention had no such "Holding area"... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  Cessna, as nycjumper pointed out, both conventions were pretty much on the same footing when it came to protestors. I found it not particularly pleasant, but accepted it as a price to pay as a result of increased secuty requirements.

                  But nobody - least of all the Bush/Cheney folks - contest the reports of the loyalty oaths, etc. on the campaign trail. You just don't get in Bush/Cheney rallies/stump speeches unless you commit to the inner sanctum. And no, the same does not hold true of Kerry/Edwards rallies, as evidenced by their tolerance of people walking around in giant flip flops. (What, you didn't think they KNEW the man wearing a 6'0 flip flop wasn't a Kerry supporter?)

                  I think you owe both candidates the respect of listening civilly to their positions should you choose to attend one of their rallies, and if you have to behave like a drunk frat boy, then you deserve to be escorted from the premises.

                  But I can't think of a single argument that supports or validates exclusionary policies in a country that celebrates your rights to participate in the political process.

                  I think it does say a lot about a candidate's willingness to hear opposing views and be challenged on their positions though...
                  Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                  Comment


                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by silver:
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> women's issues Name me one country in the world except maybe Israel where women have more rights and are treated better.
                    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                    Canada, England, France, Germany, Switzerland, Scandanavia, Belgium.... I could go on. Women get free pre-natal care in all of those countries as a matter of course and have far greater access to birth control etc. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    Amen to that. When I lived in Scotland and England I actually felt a bit liberated!
                    On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

                    Comment


                    • BLBGP is exactly right -- the bill added tons of money that had nothing to do with direct funding for troops and a select few senators opted to be better stewards of taxpayer dollars and vote against the pork.

                      On healthcare -- yes, people "who can afford it" do come here. What about the growing number of folks who can't afford healthcare at all? There's a whole thread somewhere about being a barn manager and how very few get health benefits. How many horsepeople don't have health insurance because it's too expensive? And let's not talk about the proposal (not sure what happened to it but I know there were threads on it) under the Bush Administration that would allow insurance companies to deny payment of claims resulting from "dangerous" activities -- and yes, they consider horses dangerous. So, even if you have insurance, if you fall off your horse, forget it -- the bill is all yours.

                      Finally, womens' rights -- yes, we are better off than women in most if not all countries. Is that enough? Just because we have those rights now doesn't mean we always will.

                      Comment


                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                        I, for one, think it is a GOOD THING that someone who went to Vietnam came home and was so introspective and reflective about it that he was then willing to testify before Congress and say, "Hey, there's things going on over there that you should know about." I have actually read the text of Kerry's speech that day. I, personally, did not think he came across as saying that every soldier in Vietnam was a rapist or a baby killer. I understand that some veterans felt that way, and maybe it's just a matter of preception.

                        It takes GUTS to look at your own (or your country's) actions with a critical eye and admit that mistakes have been made and that maybe you (or the country) is not on the right path.

                        <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        I have read those speeches too. And when combined with the lies that he has portrayed about his service in Vietnam, the three band-aid purple hearts, and his secret meetings with the communist delegations in France while US Troops were still in Vietnam - you get the TRUE Kerry. Why do you think he has gone away from promoting his Vietnam experience? He was called on too many inconsistincies.

                        And take a look at his record in the Senate - 20 years - the only thing he is consistent about is voting FOR raising taxes.

                        Heck, KErry is on the stump right now claiming that WMDs were not guarded properly in Iraq. But wait, weeks ago he said there were NO WMD's in IRAQ? Which one is it?

                        Now it seems that the amount of WMD's was grossly overstated, and that the Russians helped move them out of IRAQ before the War. Does Kerry stop his stump speech, nah - lets just run with it.. Kinda like CBS and Dan Rather...
                        Love my Northampton CANTER Cutie - Cessna

                        Comment


                        • President Bush: Flip-Flopper-in-Chief:

                          http://www.americanprogressaction.or...JcP7H&b=118263

                          Comment


                          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mystic:
                            In my opinion, the American public has been manipulated by the present administration every step of the way, and it's very disheartening to see.
                            <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


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                            Comment


                            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CessnaPilot:

                              I have read those speeches too. And when combined with the lies that he has portrayed about his service in Vietnam, the three band-aid purple hearts, and his secret meetings with the communist delegations in France while US Troops were still in Vietnam - you get the TRUE Kerry. Why do you think he has gone away from promoting his Vietnam experience? He was called on too many inconsistincies. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              OK, just for the sake of argument...

                              When you talk about the "lies" in the way he has portrayed his service and his Purple Hearts, I assume you are saying he exaggerated his service or heroism or whatever? Again, for the sake of argument, if that were true, it would make him guilty of padding his resume. I could throw back the accusations that Bush got into the National Guard because of Daddy, stopped performing his Guard service, and then in a flurry of activity managed to fulfill the bare minimum requirements for honorable discharge.

                              OK... so what? Is it really a surprise to anyone here that people in public service would exaggerate their accomplishments? Or that someone from a privileged background was able to get out of serving in Vietnam?

                              This is what the political spin suckers us into... arguing over stupid things in the candidates' past that really are of no consequence. I would rather talk about what issues the candidates support, what they have done to promote those issues, how they work with lawmakers in other parties, and so on.

                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Heck, KErry is on the stump right now claiming that WMDs were not guarded properly in Iraq. But wait, weeks ago he said there were NO WMD's in IRAQ? Which one is it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              I think that's a question of semantics. I don't know whether the stockpile is actually considered "WMD"s officially or not, but I think *everyone* knew exactly where it was and that it existed. It is *not* what the administration was claiming Iraq had as justification for invading it. So I don't think that argument washes. Everyone, including the Bush administration and Tony Blair, has admitted that they didn't find the WMDs that they expected to find in Iraq.

                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Now it seems that the amount of WMD's was grossly overstated, and that the Russians helped move them out of IRAQ before the War. Does Kerry stop his stump speech, nah - lets just run with it.. Kinda like CBS and Dan Rather... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              I haven't been reading the news the last day or so, what with the BB trying to implode. Care to cite a news story to back this up?

                              And you know, the cheap shots really cheapen any political discussion. Yep, CBS made a mistake in not properly authenticating the documents. But the CONTENT of the documents was not ever the source of much dispute. So it's sort of like someone getting off on a murder charge because he wasn't read his rights properly. Yup, someone screwed up, but that doesn't mean the guy didn't do it.

                              Comment


                              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Porcelain Pony:
                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by silver:
                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> women's issues Name me one country in the world except maybe Israel where women have more rights and are treated better.
                                <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                Canada, England, France, Germany, Switzerland, Scandanavia, Belgium.... I could go on. Women get free pre-natal care in all of those countries as a matter of course and have far greater access to birth control etc. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                Amen to that. When I lived in Scotland and England I actually felt a bit liberated! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                Don't forget the Netherlands, which has the lowest incidence of teenage pregnancy in the world. I think that, too often, people forget that many European countries are actually far ahead of the US in rights and healthcare.

                                Comment


                                • Here is a link to a news story from the Media Research Center about the missing weapons....

                                  Allot of this article talks about CBS making errors in reporting the missing weapons as they did with the Dan Rather piece a few weeks ago.

                                  opps - forgot the link!

                                  http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberal...20041027.asp#1

                                  Comment


                                  • The stockpiles of explosives at al Qaqaa were not considered WMDs. They were considered powerful convential explosives and were well accounted for by the IAEA. They were not guarded and disappeared after the invasion because we, thanks to civilian interference and the Rumsfield Doctrine, had too few troops on the ground to protect even the very well known munitions dumps.

                                    And dear lawd, you're not really going with the Drudge/Washington Times [Rev. Sung Young Moon] story that "the Russians took them" -- please, even Rummy's spokesman can't bring himself to try to float that one.

                                    Take a look at this piece from a local news crew embedded in the 101st -- oops, turns out they took photos of the munitions when they stopped by al Qaqaa during the invasion: KSTP Exclusive

                                    And on science and the environment, this quote from NASA's Director of the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (at Space.com) pretty much says it all about the Bush Administration's attitude toward science and the environment:

                                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>In my more than three decades in government, I have never seen anything approaching the degree to which information flow from scientists to the public has been screened and controlled as it is now," James E. Hansen told a University of Iowa audience.

                                    ....Hansen said the administration wants to hear only scientific results that "fit predetermined, inflexible positions." Evidence that would raise concerns about the dangers of climate change is often dismissed as not being of sufficient interest to the public.

                                    ....Hansen said such warnings are consistently suppressed, while studies that cast doubt on such interpretations receive favorable treatment from the administration. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                    Just consider that a message from the ultimate reality-based community.
                                    "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry

                                    Comment


                                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Coreene:
                                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Porcelain Pony:
                                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by silver:
                                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> women's issues Name me one country in the world except maybe Israel where women have more rights and are treated better.
                                      <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                      Canada, England, France, Germany, Switzerland, Scandanavia, Belgium.... I could go on. Women get free pre-natal care in all of those countries as a matter of course and have far greater access to birth control etc. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Amen to that. When I lived in Scotland and England I actually felt a bit liberated! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Don't forget the Netherlands, which has the lowest incidence of teenage pregnancy in the world. I think that, too often, people forget that many European countries are actually far ahead of the US in rights and healthcare. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      WHAT? You mean that horrible national insurance they have over there that is killing people and causes people to wait months and months for life saving operations? You communist!

                                      FWIW, in SCotland I learned to love the national heathcare system. I got appointments right away, saw wonderful doctors that spent time with me and talked to me, got free presciptions, and many of the medications I needed were available over the counter for a fraction of what we pay here (my allergy spray was 5 pounds OTC over there - it was a $75 percription here in the States!). I also was in England for the birth of my friend's first baby. Her care was amazing compared to care at places here like Kaiser. A real eye opener.
                                      On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

                                      Comment


                                      • I think I mentioned this once before, but there is a really good movie called Fog of War on rent. It touches a number of events that Robert Mcnamara was involved in (WW2-fireboming in Japan, Cuban Missile crisis & Viet Nam). It really challenges what you thought you knew versus what really happened. In the end, Kerry was correct on his perceptions when he returned from Viet Nam.

                                        While I'm on a roll, I might add another good one just released is Control Room
                                        Remember the scene of the group of Iraqis (along with the big guy hitting the statue of Saddam) in the center of Bagdhad and the Iraqis dragging the pieces after the US soldiers were pulling it down?-They weren't Iraqis. Al Jazeera may not be as one sided as it appears.

                                        I don't really know what to make of any of it, but I'm voting for Kerry.

                                        Comment


                                        • Quote -

                                          And you know, the cheap shots really cheapen any political discussion. Yep, CBS made a mistake in not properly authenticating the documents. But the CONTENT of the documents was not ever the source of much dispute. So it's sort of like someone getting off on a murder charge because he wasn't read his rights properly. Yup, someone screwed up, but that doesn't mean the guy didn't do it.

                                          Erin - here i expected so much more from you.. An OBVIOUSLY faked document and you are taking the position "the document may be fake but the content is true". GET REAL!! Why do you think someone faked the document - because THE INFORMATION PORTRAYED IS FALSE. That whole episode did nothing but show CBS and Dan Rather's bias.

                                          Portia - Read that article closely, they state that there were Primer cords - fuses basically there.

                                          here is an ABC news story on the overstatement of explosives at the site - abc report

                                          and here is the story on the russians helping remove the explosives -

                                          http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...2637-6257r.htm
                                          Love my Northampton CANTER Cutie - Cessna

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