A VERY unscientific poll, Bush or Kerry?

[SLW]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mary in Area 1:
I am nearly apoplectic over this election. Yes, I voted for Kerry. I truly believe that any truth-seeking person would have to vote for him.

1. There is no question about how the global community feels about this election. If you people who voted for Bush had really done your homework, you would find that nearly the ENTIRE WORLD thinks he is an idiot. (I can give you foreign newspaper quotes if you wish). Re-electing him just plays right into the hands of the terrorists by exposing the US to endless ridicule and anti-American sentiment.

2. Anybody who thinks that this is a situation for only 4 years is naive. Bush will probably get to name up to 4 more Supreme Court justices, and will most likely name a new Chief Justice. This are LIFETIME appointments. Take a moment to think about the most monumental social changes to our society in the last 100 years: were they made by a President or by the Supreme Court? Think of Roe v. Wade. Think of Brown v. the Board of Education of Topeka. Ask yourself if we can afford a reign of tyranny against women, minorities, and gays.

3. NPR is reporting that latest estimates are that 100,000 CIVILIAN Iraqis have died in the war. That does not include the Iraqi military, nor does it include all the the American casualties. We lost less than 3,000 people on 9/11. Horrific, I agree, but why the hell are our American souls worth 40 times an Iraqi soul???? Why is it OK for us to become the terrorist???

This is what I fear. This is what keeps me from sleeping. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mary- with all due respect and the dog didn't eat my homework, this wasn't a global election, this was our national election. America is a strong country and we can tolerate ridicule from Europe. Thus far, since 9/11 the only way Osama has been able to attack the US was with that skanky pre-election tape. I'd say President Bush and his administration have done a good job protecting our shores.

We will watch the Supreme Court appointments but please, a calling it a "reign of tyranny against women, minorities and gays" is just a little to the left of Kerry, and he just lost. The states which voted on the marriage issues sent a clear and meaningful statement about what they want a marriage to be in terms of man/woman. That is not racist or gay bashing, that is their wish as citizens of this country.

[SLW]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erin:
News flash, folks... the only people *I* ever hear talking about Hillary as if she's a viable candidate are Republicans.

Would you guys give us just a tiny bit of credit, please? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Update, on the national news tonight the talking heads were already trying to figure out the Demos' nominees for 2008. They said (not me) Hillary, Edwards and a moderate from the midwest who's name escapes me!!!!

So, I didn't start the rumor. I'm just a well read founding member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy.

[neutral milk hotel]

"Hillary, Edwards and a moderate from the midwest who's name escapes me!!!!"

Barack Obama

[icicle333]

right on MARY! i voiced my opinion in a not so poetic way and got pounced on for it. i think its sad that in "the land of the free" u cannot be entitled to an opinion that goes against the norm without being ridiculed by the majority.....i agree with u totally....i want bush's laws and religious beliefs kept off and out of my body.

[poltroon]

Well, a day of reflection and I guess I'll be OK.

Gays and stem cell researchers will be heading to California. That probably suits us and the places they're coming from just fine.

(PS: Against the wishes of our REPUBLICAN governor I voted against the $3B bond for stem cell research. I thought it was too extravagant. But hey, our biotech should flourish.)

About those who feel like leaving the country. I'm an American and I will always be one. I was raised as a patriot, on public service and on always questioning my leaders just as I would question anyone who works for me. At heart, I prefer to work from the inside. I have found my secluded (and very blue ) valley which is probably as remote as Calgary as far as Washington is concerned. There are many such places in the United States. It is a large country, rich in diversity of thought and landscape.

Our actions yesterday will likely result in a stronger European Union, as they realize that they don't like being the tail to our dog. Will this be good or bad? I don't know. Stay tuned.

Meanwhile, we are assaulting Fallujah. Let us hope that the action will be effective in taking out the bad guys with a minimum of other losses. Let us hope that somehow we find a way to keep the lights on in Baghdad and to put those people to work at something more productive than blowing up our sons and daughters. Let us hope that the good and brave Americans abroad can clean up this mess and make it work, somehow.

[Carol Ames]

I, too am feeling very uneasy about the next4 years!I a am afraid for our future when we have a president who, wraps himself in the flag, holds up a cross,and, is called "moral ";the food banks in this country are under seige by the many people living below the poverty level,just one catastrophic injury or illnesswill do it,and,we are all getting OLDER ,which is NOT astate of mind, but,a physical reality.boo! i'm afraid the "ostrichcomplex"is alive,and,all too well, in this country.

[luvmytrakehnerwb]

Dcm- I feel very sorry for you. I feel sorry your so blinded. That goes for other Bush votes here. I hope you all know its partly your faults when the sh*t hits the fan. Also, I find it hard to believe i'm "nuts" when I seem to share the same view with MANY MANY MANY others. Not JUST liberals...which by the way...who said i'm a liberal? Thought I might add...I support our troops...NOT president Bush. Oh and some food for thought...compassionate conservatism is an oxymoron...BUSH is just a moron....

[luvmytrakehnerwb]

Infact, I think I'll make that last line my signature line.

[icicle333]

one last thing: my friend said...

"today was like waking up on christmas morning and finding a bunch of **it and coal in your stocking"

possibly the best analogy i have ever heard!

[Snowbird]

Well I'm personally delighted, I anticipate being able to start the ball rolling for manure as a viable farm product because afterall it is pre-fossil fuel and even the Neanderthal carried it in their back packs to start fires.

I suspect with a little funding research it could be sold instead of Peat Moss for landscaping. I will be working with NFIB for fuel cell electric generators for farmers. And we'll see what we can do about Wind Mills to reinstate the horse farm as the "good" guys.

I'm very happy the Estate Tax won't be rescinded and I'll take advantage of every farmer discount I can get so I can pay my bills and keep teaching kids how to ride and love horses.

I think if the French and Germans like Kerry that much we could lend him to them to be their President and then we could have a nice partnership with Europe. He could do two terms in France and then two terms in Germany. The perfect Lend Lease policy.

It's over and the fat lady sang her song so now let's talk about constructive solutions to problems that worry you. Yes! you've all been mobilized and that's a good thing. The American public has learned about the "peoples government".

In fact a second term for a President is simply his opportunity to leave his mark on history. The power plays are over and what happens is the need for a legacy. Have confidence that having faced near defeat George W will want to leave a good name behind for the next Bush to be President.

Did you all see the the next young George? He's beautiful and he's articulate and Tom Kean's grandson is coming along and he's a wonderful young man. The world is not going to end. It may not be exactly what you want, and it won't be exactly what I want and that will make it a good compromise.

This is an amazing resilient country and we have coped with a lot worse in leadership. The people have spoken and there was more of them for Bush than Kerry get over it! And move on to the next step!You all wanted negotiation well here it is let's go do it.

[Oakleigh]

luvmytrak... There were 59,017,382+ people who voted for President Bush. I was proudly among them.

I think your fears are not well grounded in fact. President Bush knows full well that he serves all Americans, not just the ones who voted for him. Now that the election is over, you need to acquire some respect for the commander-in-chief. He is OUR president.The disrespect of continuing to call our president a "moron" is just about over the top, for me. He is no longer a candidate. It's time to put the signs away and stop the name-calling.

Those of us who voted for President Bush are not blinded. We also do not want your sympathy. We chose the person whom we thought would lead our country in the manner in which we thought best. We are not morons, any more than those who voted for Senator Kerry are. It's time to heal the divide and get on with the business of running this country.

Many of us who voted for President Bush are highly educated, despite the description someone gave several pages ago of President Bush supporters being poor, uneducated idiots. I personally hold 4 degrees with one postgraduate degree. Most of my friends who supported President Bush are also very well educated.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree, as I said about 10 pages ago. We need to re-focus our attention on much loftier goals.

Want to make a real difference and real contribution? Get involved! There are many political positions where you could make a difference. Being a Monday morning QB is all too easy and will never make a difference in our world. People are generally willing to sit and b*tch, but unwilling to roll up their sleeves and dig in. Prove us wrong, please...

With respect,
Oakleigh

[RumoursFollow]

I am really having a very hard time understanding a lot of you people. Seriously.

Why is it that Kerry supporters on this board think that Bush supporters are the minority? Apparently, we just won the election. Bush got more votes than Kerry did. Look it up- its true. What part of this makes us the minority?

I'm simply amazed by the people who will tell someone that they are stupid for believing in a certain candidate. Yall spend all your time waving peace flags and singing about the land of the free.. home of the brave.. equal opportunity for everyone and how Bush doesnt allow these things, yet anyone who comes here and supports something contrary to your beliefs is a "moron." You call Bush names like children. This is a grown up issue and I would LOVE to see someone act like a grownup while talking about it. I would NEVER call someone stupid or tell them they were wrong for voting for Kerry. I dont agree with it, but it's your right to do as you please. I would be thrilled if for once someone could return the favor. Anyone game???

I supported Bush 4 years ago. Then, I went to Washington DC and spent a year working on Capitol Hill smack in the middle of it all. I started out working for a freshman congressman from south GA, and I finished working for one of the most important offices in the country. It was an honor and a privilege to work for both of them. More than anything, because they gave a sh*t. Lots of the elected officials don't when it comes down to it. When you sit in the press conferences and you watch the congressmen/senators talk and you observe firsthand which ones REALLY know what the issues are and what their constituents want, and which ones get stuff fed to them by their aides. Its a different world from the inside. I saw democrats I hated when I came to the hill that I walked away with an enormous respect for instead of just the ones I disliked intensely, and republicans that I met while I was there that I realized didnt know what was going on in the least, and that really dissapointed me, in addition to those whose love of our country is greater than anything I've known.

Four years ago I supported Bush because at the time I thought it was the right thing to do. Four years later, I've seen quite a bit of both sides, and I know for sure that I picked the right person the first time around. So I voted for Bush again, and I'm even more proud of that decision now.


and for people adding or threatening to add tacky things to their signature lines... how about a grownup like (although still light and childlike for those who cant grasp the maturity concept 100% ) statement like this one:

"Its not always rainbows and butterflies, its compromise that moves us along." Maroon 5

[Linus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
Have confidence that having faced near defeat George W will want to leave a good name behind for the next Bush to be President. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Snowbird]

Enough with Gays; God is both male and female because we are all in his image as we've been taught. That means man is at one end of the scale and female at the other end of the scale and ALL of humanity is in some position between the two.

No one is all Male and No one is all female! If you live a good life and you love people and don't do harm what the h*** difference does any of it make. As a female, I love males and therefore I share the same interests as a so-called Gay man who also loves males. There is no such thing as gay and straight it's pure ego to believe that just like we all have different fingerprints, DNA and eye patterns we would all be limited to male or female. There are thousands of variations between the two ends of the scale. All are normal and human and part of our species.

If two people love each other and care for each other why does it have to be certified by governance? Have anyone even considered what a divorce is like? Yes! two people need a Marriage contract! Males and females need a marriage contract. You don't need anyone's approval to love someone.

No one is going to prevent birth control anymore, the Genie is out of the bottle. No one can stop a mother from getting rid of her kids if she doesn't want them born or not! Not even God could legislate being a good mother.

If that's you're biggest problem in life then you are blessed. George Bush can refuse to have government use tax money to pay for your birth control, he can't stop you from using birth control! Conservatives may have the votes to refuse to pay for abortion with tax money but they can't any more stop abortions.

They might refuse to use tax money for stem cell research but they can't stop stem cell research. You don't need governance to tell you how to live if you keep enpugh of the money you earn to pay for what you want and need.

That is freedom, the right to earn enough money to be able to do what you want for yourself as long as you don't hurt anyone else or deprive them of their rights.

[lauriep]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dcm:
Do you know what I am most disappointed by? That Kerry did not offer to heal the divide, to work with the Republicans. Kerry, as leader of the Democratic Party needed to make that first step, and I wish he would have taken it publicly in his speech.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually he did:

"I pledge to do my part to try to bridge the partisan divide.

I know this is a difficult time for my supporters, but I ask them, all of you, to join me in doing that. Now, more than ever, with our soldiers in harm's way, we must stand together and succeed in Iraq and win the war on terror."

Perhaps the Bush supporters would be wise to let a few days go by and let us digest this, We had a lot vested in our candidate, and it is still a bit early to have to listen to "let's heal, let's all work together." I'm not ready for that just yet.

And, unless I see a major change, quickly, in who Bush surrounds himself with, I see no reason why anything will be different in the next 4 years.

[Snowbird]

There is another way, become a supporter and then use you influence and skills to convince him of your perspective. But, can we learn to do that without adjectives and explicatives?

[Eomer]

Tomorrow we all awake ... AMERICANS! Our system of Government makes no sense at times. At times we fall so short of the promise we started with. Step back and look ... you may see that we've degenerated to a WARFARE State, at times. But everytime ... EVERYTIME ... I look at our flag ... or read "We the People" ...", especially in times like these, I thank God that he inspired our founding fathers to write the most wonderful document ever ... EVER ... writen by man, OUR Constitution! I'm (still) ***PROUD*** to be an AMERICAN. Please join me.

These ARE times that try mens souls. Now more than ever we need to stand as a nation, and hold up the light of Liberty for all the world. God bless our leaders to remember whence we came. And take up the mantle of those that fought and died for our freedom to have discussions like these, without fear. NOW more than ever we need to make sure we make it perfectly clear to our leaders that we want for all mankind the blessings God has so richly bestowed upon us. We want, once and for all, PEACE and LIBERTY for ALL MANKIND. Only then can we be at peace ourselves. We need to make it perfectly clear to our leaders that the war to end all wars is the one we refuse to fight and that all life is valuable to our God.

[lauriep]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dcm:

At some point, both parties must call a truce, and as the party that lost and is at a disadvantage, the Dems need to reach out first. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, no, it would be most meaningful for the WINNERS, who now have optimum control of the government, to reach out and express a desire to work together.

[Snowbird]

As old as I am I still have faith in basic goodness of people and I think that can happen. Will you accept the invitation?

I think they know it's a squeeker and they will have their hand out to welcome new ideas. Remember the BIG TENT that welcomes everyone. I think the Republicans and even GW are more centrous that you suspect.

But then maybe I'm just stubborn because I believe in the "little people". They found skeletons of "hobbits" on an island in the Pacific. This was an island community of people who were only 3'0" tall. 25% smaller than pygmies. They lived there as recently as 13,000 years ago.

So all the old tales of the small people were really true! Who knows one day they might find the bones of a leprachaun. Maybe these were the people we learned about as Santa's elves.

[dcm]

LaurieP, I did correct my original post with a retraction and apology concerning Kerry's speech. I was at work and must have been distracted by work (of all things ). I do not like Kerry's policies, nor do I want him in the whitehouse, but I gained a new found respect for him today. He did not drag out the election with cries of stolen elections and voter disenfranchisement. He did the honorable thing and conceeded. And then he added icing on the cake and promised to help heal the divide. That is the first step that is needed, and I hope to God that both sides take up that banner. As to who should reach out to whom? Kerry has made the first reach, and now it is up to the Republicans to take that hand and do some good for our country.

Erin, this country is not going to hell in a handbasket because Bush was reelected. A little more belief in our system would do you some good. I'll quote one of our political pundits, "Let not your heart be troubled my friend." Peace. It has been fun on this thread despite my sometimes frustrations and even my anger at some certain individuals' attitudes. Thank you for letting this stay open. It has been an education for me. I hope that we can all leave the politics behind when we meet again on the regular forums. I will.

SLW & Snowbird, I am so glad ya'll showed up. I was beginning to think I was the only pro-Bush voice here and my frustration was beginning to show. Thank you. I need to borrow the huggie smilie from Hannity's forum.

luvmytrakehnerwb - instead of using something so divisive in your signature line, why don't you try using something from your own candidate like, "because whether or not our candidates are successful, the next morning we all wake up as Americans"? It is so much more productive, and condusive to a non-divided America.