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A VERY unscientific poll, Bush or Kerry?

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  • Why on earth is it up to the Democrats to work with the Republicans when the Republicans have a majority in the House, Senate, a majority of governorships (unless something changed yesterday, which I don't think it did), and the freakin' White House!

    Where is the effort by the Republicans to work with the Democrats? Why are they pushing right-wing issues that a MAJORITY of Americans do not support? The country is pretty solidly pro-choice, yet Bush panders to the pro-lifers. When the Democrats did try to work with Bush on No Child Left Behind, he screwed them. He pushes sex education that has been proven ineffective. He has a horrible record on the environment, and MOST Americans support environmental conservation.

    If most of the American people are moderate, Bush's presidency doesn't reflect their views any more than Kerry's allegedly would have.

    The Republicans are in the majority and have been for the entirety of Bush's first term. Bush had overwhelming support after 9/11. The fact that the country is more horribly divided than ever cannot possibly be entirely the Democrats' fault.

    Comment


    • Is anyone learning anything from this tennis match? Or are the posters just enjoying seeing their words in print?

      Bush won, Kerry lost. GO celebrate if you're of a mind too- go write a letter to Kerry thanking him for a race well run.

      Politics, religion, and NASCAR - not good topics for the dinner table

      I am just trying to figure out what this 49 pages has done for anyone?? Did anyone CHANGE their minds after reading all this?

      Comment


      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eomer:
        You were lucky to have a Mother that tried to raise you right, DCM. But Freedom of Speech, isn't subject to your approval ... or mine ... or anyones, it's a fundamental right here in the USA.

        We have courts to do the judging, why don't you let them? That too could help heal some of the decisiveness. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        Thanks Eomer. My mom is a gem. I miss her dearly and would have loved to have her closer than 750 miles to help raise my kids.

        So, what does a court have to do with any of this? What did I miss?

        Comment


        • Well DCM, I agree with you in that I truly believe W won based on the war. Although he's not a great speaker, he does the good ol' cowboy john wayne act very well, and that kind of romanticism is easy to get behind.

          However, I doubt (okay, I seriously hope) that we won't be dealing with this war for the next 4 yrs., and Bush SUCKS at the domestic stuff. He's working hard to drive the economy, unemployment, healthcare, education, etc., etc., etc. into the ground.
          "[I don't like the word] try. To me, it means you plan to fail." --Robby Johnson

          "All you have to do to succeed is decide to succeed." Jimmy Wofford

          Comment


          • Erin - I just wanted to say "Thank You" for keeping these threads open and allowing a forum to discuss issues. We know that COTH is definitely not a political publication, you provided a forum for interesting conversation. Again, THANK YOU!
            Love my Northampton CANTER Cutie - Cessna

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by oskaar:
              Do I think teaching abstinece only is realistic? NO. Birth Control and condoms should be widely available and taught correctly so that when teens have sex (and they will, I promise you), they will be prepared. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Most Americans (and people who study these things) would agree.

              But see the top of page 40 on this thread for a number of references to the fact that Bush has promoted abstinence-only education and opposes the use of federal funds for comprehensive sex ed, which includes the discussion of birth control.

              Comment


              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CoolMeadows:
                Why do you believe we invaded Iraq? It must have something to do with our best interests. And other countries were looking out for their best interests. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                I supported the invasion, but I had reservations. I thought we had dicked around with Saddam Hussein and his defiance of the UN resolutions long enough, and when Colin Powell made his presentation at the UN, I believe I still had doubts, but I gave the administration the benefit of that doubt. I would be very much uninclined to give the administration the benefit of the doubt again (fool me once, etc.), but hindsight is always, very conveniently, 20/20.

                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                Are you of the age and type that will be taken? Your kids? Or have your kids or immediate family already put their money where their mouths are and signed up? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                No and no. I'm not sure how the subject got changed to my family and my (nonexistant) kids.

                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If so, I want to offer my complete respect for standing up for your country and your beliefs, but my beliefs are different and I don't want anyone I love who opposes the direction our country is headed to be forced into fighting a war based on lies and greed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                I appreciate your above remarks, and I wouldn't wish a trip to Iraq on anyone here, or any of their loved ones. Unlike others here who have wished that my ignorant Republican-voting family "gets what they deserve."

                Comment


                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erin:
                  Why on earth is it up to the Democrats to work with the Republicans when the Republicans have a majority in the House, Senate, a majority of governorships (unless something changed yesterday, which I don't think it did), and the freakin' White House!

                  Where is the effort by the Republicans to work with the Democrats? Why are they pushing right-wing issues that a MAJORITY of Americans do not support? The country is pretty solidly pro-choice, yet Bush panders to the pro-lifers. When the Democrats did try to work with Bush on No Child Left Behind, he screwed them. He pushes sex education that has been proven ineffective. He has a horrible record on the environment, and MOST Americans support environmental conservation.

                  If most of the American people are moderate, Bush's presidency doesn't reflect their views any more than Kerry's allegedly would have.

                  The Republicans are in the majority and have been for the entirety of Bush's first term. Bush had overwhelming support after 9/11. The fact that the country is more horribly divided than ever cannot possibly be entirely the Democrats' fault. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  The Democrats lost. It is up to them to reach across the aisle.

                  Think of this: What better way to moderate Bush than to offer to work together. Afterall, that is what he wanted in the first place. Although, I will admit that the Dems most likely lost their chance. Bush does not have to be reelected and his VP will not run in 2008. He now has no real reason to work with those who called him a liar and a betrayer of his beloved country.

                  Comment


                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dcm:
                    So, what does a court have to do with any of this? What did I miss? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    You're being pretty darn judgemental. And if you ever take a course in propaganda and then re-read your posts you will be appaled at what you've written and the methods you use.
                    \"The fool on the hill\"

                    Comment


                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dcm:
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eomer:
                      DCM, Freedom of speach is part of the "Bill of Rights"... part of the Consititution. You may not ... I may not ... like what people say (no matter who or what they say it about)... for myself, I would die for their right to say it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      But you see, it is the way things were said. My mother always taught me that if I could not say it nicely, then I need to find another way to do it. In this great country of ours, there is a better way to disagree without denigrating our commander in chief in view of the world. Its like airing our dirty laundry. I don't understand why people cannot understand this. Freedom of speech is priceless. Unless we tone down the rhetoric, we will continue to be divided. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      dcm, I agree that sometimes things get shrill. But I don't think that Democrats have an exclusive lock on that. Remember what Republicans said about Clinton? I have heard shrill and unfounded and just plain nasty things said on both sides. At the Republican convention, some of the speakers seemed appalled that Democrats were unpatriotic enough to even field a candidate.

                      There are people who truly believe in our country who felt that the only way to get anyone's attention was to be as shrill and exaggerated as the opposition. I don't care to act that way. I don't think it's productive.

                      Those of you who support Bush and want the country to come together: please make that clear in writing your President, your senators, and your Representative. Because from where I sit, it has been the Republicans turning up the rhetoric. Democratic leaders sat quietly after 9/11 and pretty much gave the President anything he wanted. The government went harder right. The Republicans are either going to have to start talking to the Democrats or be willing to have discussions and dissent within their own party leadership if we want the country to heal.

                      There are many things this country needs that I think we all can agree on. Perhaps the President can try to move forward on these areas instead of going for the divisive ones that make his base happy at the expense of others.

                      Or there's always the next terrorist attack. That always seems to unite us.
                      If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                      Comment


                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M. O'Connor:
                        << It would have been so easy for them to get a candidate that would have taken votes from Bush. So easy.>>

                        How so, Belladonna Lily? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        Please tell me the Democrats have at least one decent, honest moderate Democrat on their roster.

                        Personally, I think Lieberman may have made a better choice. Who knows? Would I have voted for him? I certainly don't know at this point. And I can't give you a list of Dems I approve of off the top of my head but I do think this country has been in a state of uncertainty during the last year. I think Bush's hold was tenuous. The Dems once again proved they couldn't get off their liberal high-horse long enough to see what the country really wanted. Whether traditional values SHOULD have been important to them is not the issue. The fact that those values obviously were important to them are.

                        Comment


                        • Thanks Windsor for your answers. I still believe we were wrong to go in, but I appreciate you giving your reasons for your thoughts.

                          I brought up your family and (hypothetical) kids, in reference to a draft and how you would feel about our invasion then.
                          Please don't try to be a voice of reason. It's way more fun to spin things out of control. #BecauseCOTH - showhorsegallery

                          Comment


                          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by katarine:
                            Is anyone learning anything from this tennis match? Or are the posters just enjoying seeing their words in print?

                            Bush won, Kerry lost. GO celebrate if you're of a mind too- go write a letter to Kerry thanking him for a race well run.

                            Politics, religion, and NASCAR - not good topics for the dinner table

                            I am just trying to figure out what this 49 pages has done for anyone?? Did anyone CHANGE their minds after reading all this? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            Why shouldn't we discuss, and why does the end result have to be changing people's minds? How about understanding others' viewpoints?

                            Comment


                            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:
                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dcm:
                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eomer:
                              DCM, Freedom of speach is part of the "Bill of Rights"... part of the Consititution. You may not ... I may not ... like what people say (no matter who or what they say it about)... for myself, I would die for their right to say it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              But you see, it is the way things were said. My mother always taught me that if I could not say it nicely, then I need to find another way to do it. In this great country of ours, there is a better way to disagree without denigrating our commander in chief in view of the world. Its like airing our dirty laundry. I don't understand why people cannot understand this. Freedom of speech is priceless. Unless we tone down the rhetoric, we will continue to be divided. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              dcm, I agree that sometimes things get shrill. But I don't think that Democrats have an exclusive lock on that. Remember what Republicans said about Clinton? I have heard shrill and unfounded and just plain nasty things said on both sides.

                              There are people who truly believe in our country who felt that the only way to get anyone's attention was to be as shrill and exaggerated as the opposition. I don't care to act that way. I don't think it's productive.

                              Those of you who support Bush and want the country to come together: please make that clear in writing your President, your senators, and your Representative. Because from where I sit, it has been the Republicans turning up the rhetoric. Democratic leaders sat quietly after 9/11 and pretty much gave the President anything he wanted. The government went harder right. The Republicans are either going to have to start talking to the Democrats or be willing to have discussions and dissent within their own party leadership if we want the country to heal.

                              There are many things this country needs that I think we all can agree on. Perhaps the President can try to move forward on these areas instead of going for the divisive ones that make his base happy at the expense of others.

                              Or there's always the next terrorist attack. That always seems to unite us. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              Yes, I was embarrassed by the vitriol from some of our Republican leaders. I did not like what Clinton did, but that did not justify that kind of behavior either. Just as it does not justify the vitriol from the Dems towards Bush.

                              If the Dems want to work with the Repubs, then they have to stop calling Bush names.

                              At some point, both parties must call a truce, and as the party that lost and is at a disadvantage, the Dems need to reach out first.

                              Comment


                              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You were lucky to have a Mother that tried to raise you right, DCM. But Freedom of Speech, isn't subject to your approval ... or mine ... or anyones, it's a fundamental right here in the USA.
                                <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                I think this comes under the heading of "yelling fire in a crowded theatre" or fighting words. Things can be said in ways that are respectful of persons and polite without repressing their opinion or voice.
                                "I reject your reality and substitute my own" Adam Savage--Mythbusters
                                <><

                                Comment


                                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dcm:

                                  The Democrats lost. It is up to them to reach across the aisle. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                  They did that after Bush was elected the first time and got screwed. Why do you think he'll be any more amenable to it this time?

                                  And no, it is not the responsibility of the losing party to reach across the aisle. It is the responsibilty of BOTH parties. Usually out of political necessity. The Republicans don't have much political necessity anymore, so I doubt you'll see much reaching from them.

                                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>He now has no real reason to work with those who called him a liar and a betrayer of his beloved country. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                  Nor any real reason to try to represent the interests of most moderate Americans, which should be of concern to everyone here, not just liberals.

                                  Anyone who is in public office has to accept criticism. It is not unpatriotic to criticize the president. And again, you are IGNORING the vast number of legitimate issues brought up on this thread. Bush HAS lied... would you rather no one point that out? But I for one didn't vote against him because he lied... I'm sorry you're only listening to those particular criticisms and ignoring the rest.

                                  Comment


                                  • DCM,
                                    We seem to disagree on everything!
                                    I think the winning party should be the one to reach out. (And for the record, I would've said the same thing had Kerry won.)
                                    Amwrider: May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their genitalia and may their arms be too short to scratch.

                                    Comment


                                    • dcm, point blank... if Bush was truly a uniter and not a divider, why did he betray the Democrats who tried to work with him on No Child Left Behind? THREE AND A HALF YEARS AGO... before 9/11, before anyone called him a liar or said he betrayed the country.

                                      If he were interested in working with the Democrats, why did he do that?

                                      Comment


                                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If the Dems want to work with the Repubs, then they have to stop calling Bush names. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        When do the Republicans have to stop calling the Democrats names?

                                        When a Democratic president was making judicial appointments, the rules were as they had been for years: If either Senator from a state objected to a judge, that judge would be withdrawn.

                                        When Bush came into office, and the Republicans had the Senate, the rule changed: BOTH Senators would have to object.

                                        When some of his appointments were blocked on this basis because BOTH of the judge's home state Senators objected to his appointment, they scrapped the rule entirely.

                                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>At some point, both parties must call a truce, and as the party that lost and is at a disadvantage, the Dems need to reach out first. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        I hope people from both sides reach out. Because one side cannot do it alone, regardless of whether it was the victor or the loser.
                                        If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                                        Comment


                                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                                          I brought up your family and (hypothetical) kids, in reference to a draft and how you would feel about our invasion then. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          That's okay--I got your point and in retrospect I don't think it was out of line for you to bring it up. I'm sure you're right that a lot of people who support the invasion would stop supporting it real quick if they or someone they loved were going to be sent. Under those circumstances, we might become a nation of pacifists.

                                          Now, somebody pass the peace pipe!

                                          Comment

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