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A VERY unscientific poll, Bush or Kerry?

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  • Cool meadows,

    My sincere sympathy. I think if you have lived or travelled extensively (EuroDisney in Paris doesn't count) outside of the country, you start to open your mind to other possibilities, other ideas, and other cultures. And in doing that, you begin to realize how small this world really is, and how intimately we are all linked.

    You start to question things we do as a country, when you see the influence we have in the world. You begin to see just how YOUNG our country really is, and just how much you didn't know about the rest of the world.

    You get worried when people accept lies told to them about other cultures as fact, when they refuse to investigate for themselves. This works both ways...but you become especially worried when one particular country begins to assert that because they are considered a "superpower" their opinion is the only one that counts. You also meet many people of many vastly different religious backgrounds, with only one thing in common...they think they are right, and realize more deeply than before, that religion is a dangerous political tool. A tool that has been used throughout the centuries with great success and great devastation.

    You also become especially worried if you take note of history, and notice that all great nations, in the history of the world, have had a period of rise and fall. And you start to wonder about the good ole USA.

    Well, at least, I have.

    Comment


    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Windsor:
      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
      Not about letting them make decisions. But we WILL need the world's support as we continue on our war-mongering path. And it won't be there. Are you really positive you're ready for that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      Okaaaaayy, so does that or doesn't it make you a member of the "world veto" set? How much influence should other countries (with their own agendas) and their citizens (without the appropriate intelligence) have on our foreign policy? I don't the answer should be "none," but I think it should be "not much"--of course it depends partly on the circumstances. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      If the majority of the rest of the developed world votes against, then I'd say we should step back and think long and hard before leaping, rather than ignoring, insulting and generally poo-pooing their opinions. The rest of the world is not full of morons, in fact America has one of the worst public education systems in the developed world. If they're advising against something, there are some very good reasons behind it. And if we leap regardless, we should not then ask for money and troops and be pissed off and have temper tantrums like a spoiled child when we don't get it. Compromises can work wonders. We don't have limitless funds, we have the biggest deficit in history. We don't have the support of other countries. When we truly begin to crash and burn, the rest of the world will not to help us. We are not infallible.
      Please don't try to be a voice of reason. It's way more fun to spin things out of control. #BecauseCOTH - showhorsegallery

      Comment


      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I have all the answers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        and they say that Republicans are close minded.
        "I reject your reality and substitute my own" Adam Savage--Mythbusters
        <><

        Comment


        • Just in case any of my fellow Republicans were worried, CHjoker is not to be feared. I spent the first 18 yrs old my life there, a wonderful place (though Switzerland is by no means perfect, how many people "really" go to University, what if you didn't make it throught the top level at a very young age?, the poor are very well "hidden", and has violence not been on a huge rise in the last 10 yrs?) Sure it is a wonderful place, my brother and many of my friends still live there. Hardly better than the USA,though! I am glad we have another four years...
          visit us at www.levremont.com

          Comment


          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sparkie:
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I have all the answers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

            and they say that Republicans are close minded. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

            Way to spin one, Sparkie. I believe the sentence was "I have all the answers I NEED" ie: my questions have been answered.
            Please don't try to be a voice of reason. It's way more fun to spin things out of control. #BecauseCOTH - showhorsegallery

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This works both ways...but you (I) become especially worried when one particular country begins to assert that because they are considered a "superpower" their opinion is the only one that counts. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              You know people who believe this? Because most of the ones I've encountered, especially online, have maintained something closer to the opposite. Some of them might even have been closed-minded little ignoramuses who never left Podunk USA.

              You must have aced Condescending 101. Or maybe it's Patronizing 101. As usual, I can't decide.

              Comment


              • Look, the country is falling apart: 1 in 8 Americans lives below the poverty line (which is $25K for a family of four!!!), millions are uninsured, there is a crumbling education system, the economy in the hole, international investors are pulling out, we've lost 90% of our credibility, we owe $1 trillion to countries that now hate us, the brain drain is in full effect in key industries.... etc. etc.

                And what are our newly elected politicians concerned with? Gay marriage, abortion and oil in the Middle East. It's indefensible.

                Comment


                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Windsor:
                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This works both ways...but you (I) become especially worried when one particular country begins to assert that because they are considered a "superpower" their opinion is the only one that counts. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  You know people who believe this? Because most of the ones I've encountered, especially online, have maintained something closer to the opposite. Some of them might even have been closed-minded little ignoramuses who never left Podunk USA.

                  You must have aced Condescending 101. Or maybe it's Patronizing 101. As usual, I can't decide. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  I don't know many people who feel this way, but more importantly that is exactly the attitude the current administration has been sending to the rest of the world.
                  Please don't try to be a voice of reason. It's way more fun to spin things out of control. #BecauseCOTH - showhorsegallery

                  Comment


                  • I suppose I might be looking forwards to four more years as well if my family funded my business for me.
                    Please don't try to be a voice of reason. It's way more fun to spin things out of control. #BecauseCOTH - showhorsegallery

                    Comment


                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CoolMeadows:
                      If the majority of the rest of the developed world votes against, then I'd say we should step back and think long and hard before leaping, rather than ignoring, insulting and generally poo-pooing their opinions. The rest of the world is not full of morons, in fact America has one of the worst public education systems in the developed world. If they're advising against something, there are some very good reasons behind it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      Well, I may be more cynical than you are with regard to the good intentions of countries and their governments (NOT EXCLUDING this one), but I don't believe the rest of the world is peopled with morons.

                      Comment


                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                        I don't know many people who feel this way, but more importantly that is exactly the attitude the current administration has been sending to the rest of the world. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        Yeah, I'm aware that that's your view, and the world's view. I'm just not 100 convinced that that view is justified. Also, CHJoker was presenting that as HER point of view--if it's wrong for the government to share it, isn't it also wrong for CHJoker?

                        Comment


                        • Levremont,

                          I didn't say it was utopia And, no actually, crime is not on a huge rise. IN fact, if compared to the US, it is practically non existant. The education system is different from the US, but actually, MANY people go to College here, and the ones less interested in College get vocational training. There is a VERY low unemployment rate. EVERYONE has health care, because it is mandated by law, although the insurance companies are private, but controlled by the government. The people who can't afford health insurance have their private premiums paid by the state. The "poor" are here, but "hidden" because they have housing and food. Not on the street in plain sight. There is a federal unemployment plan that pays you 75-80 percent of your salary should you get fired or laid off.

                          If you happen to be very lucky in the US, this MIGHT sound like benefits you would enjoy. But, sadly, this is not the norm for the typical American.

                          Interesting you spent your first 18 years here. Excellent eductation system, especially at the primary and secondary school level.

                          I would also assume you come from a rather privleged background, because you are 1) Republican 2) not too many families move here from the US with their children for 18 years who are lower middle class or poor. Especially 10? years ago.

                          Switzerland is a wonderful place! Although I am most certainly not advocating that all Democrats move here, well, why would the Republicans care? They won't crash in their chalet's or lake front property homes that were purchased with huge corporate profits Because, in fact, the Swiss banking economy is an important chunk of change here, and they rely HEAVILY on those corporate profits Plus, with the relative tax relief offered the very wealthy in Switzerland, it certainly attracts a fair share of the mega rich.

                          But whatever the reason, you enjoy your 4 years with Bush.

                          Comment


                          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I want us all to work together, but I do not want my commander in chief denigrated by the media and other political parties. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            Let me give you a scenario. Let's say we're both parents and our teenage daughters are friends.

                            Let's say I find out that your 14 year old daughter is having sex with a 36 year old man who snorts cocaine, and I know that you have no idea and that you think your daughter is doing great. Your daughter says she's out with my daughter when she meets this man.

                            Do you want me to tell you your daughter is lying to you, even though it will upset you?
                            If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                            Comment


                            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Gay marriage <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              Yeah, What's with that even being an issue? It would probably be great for the economy if we allowed full out Gay Weddings, honey.....
                              The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

                              Comment


                              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Windsor:
                                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CoolMeadows:
                                If the majority of the rest of the developed world votes against, then I'd say we should step back and think long and hard before leaping, rather than ignoring, insulting and generally poo-pooing their opinions. The rest of the world is not full of morons, in fact America has one of the worst public education systems in the developed world. If they're advising against something, there are some very good reasons behind it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                Well, I may be more cynical than you are with regard to the good intentions of countries and their governments (NOT EXCLUDING this one), but I don't believe the rest of the world is peopled with morons. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                I guess I'm not cynical enough to believe that the majority are voting for mainly selfish reasons. Of course every country has it's own agenda, but most also recognize their role in the global sense.
                                Please don't try to be a voice of reason. It's way more fun to spin things out of control. #BecauseCOTH - showhorsegallery

                                Comment


                                • [QUOTE] [/"I have all the answers I NEED"QUOTE]

                                  Cool Meadows: Fair enough, your quote.

                                  Still my response: and they say Republicans are close minded

                                  You don't take into account new and important information that may come up. You have made your mind up, apparently.
                                  "I reject your reality and substitute my own" Adam Savage--Mythbusters
                                  <><

                                  Comment


                                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ClaraLuisa:
                                    I have done my initial venting about the results. Living where I do, I know I'm in for unending post-mortems on "what went wrong".

                                    But I really really want to have a different conversation. Maybe it's a naive one...but it strikes me that this is a pretty thoughtful, constructive group. Perhaps a better chance to ask here than in other places:

                                    _How DO we bring this country together?_
                                    And no, I don't think it's adequate to blame our political leaders for dividing us. Yes, they have driven the partisan wedge issues and sought to benefit from the ever-lower level of public discourse.

                                    But it's our country-- and ultimately our responsibility to find ways to work together and heal some self-inflicted political wounds.

                                    This is going to be a tough four years no matter who is in the White House. How do we come out of it a stronger country? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    Excellent question. We'd all be better off putting our heads together to try to answer that one than worry constantly about the coulda shoulda wouldas of this election. The thing that constantly amazes and dismays me is that ultimately, we're all on the same team, but so few people seem to understand that, it seems. The outpuring of unity that followed 9/11 is largely gone, what a sad commentary. All those people lost their lives and more are losing their lives every day in Iraq and we sit at home and squabble, instead of pulling together for everyone's good. Of course, we can always debate exactly what the public good entails.

                                    The one good thing I can see coming out of this election is the record voter turn out in so many places. At least this election got people to care, if just till Nov. 2. Now the thing of it is, the only way for ordinary people to have any sort of political power is by showing up, paying attention and participating. At least this election helped some of that happen. Even if your candidate didn't win (mine sure didn't), participating is the important thing.

                                    Stepping off soapbox now...

                                    Comment


                                    • Read it again Sparkie, I said my questions have been answered, as have yours apparently.

                                      And since it was your suggestion, and I quote: "I think that intellegent questions, answers and trying to understand each other will go a long way to bringing the country back together.", then rather than attack me (which seems to oppose what you suggested) I would like to hear your questions, and see where you are trying to understand anyone else to do your part in reuniting this country.
                                      Please don't try to be a voice of reason. It's way more fun to spin things out of control. #BecauseCOTH - showhorsegallery

                                      Comment


                                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                                        I guess I'm not cynical enough to believe that the majority are voting for mainly selfish reasons. Of course every country has it's own agenda, but most also recognize their role in the global sense. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        Maybe "cynical" and "selfish" are the wrong words. My point is simply that there are a lot of reasons why a country might not want to get involved, but THEIR reasons for not wanting to get involved (whether they're nefarious or not) do not necessarily make our invasion a bad decision or an "eff you" to those who declined to get involved. I would not be surprised, though, if the other countries PERCEIVED it as an eff you. But that perception is not U.S.' fault.

                                        Comment


                                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Windsor:
                                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                                          I guess I'm not cynical enough to believe that the majority are voting for mainly selfish reasons. Of course every country has it's own agenda, but most also recognize their role in the global sense. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          Maybe "cynical" and "selfish" are the wrong words. My point is simply that there are a lot of reasons why a country might not want to get involved, but THEIR reasons for not wanting to get involved (whether they're nefarious or not) do not necessarily make our invasion a bad decision or an "eff you" to those who declined to get involved. I would not be surprised, though, if the other countries PERCEIVED it as an eff you. But that perception is not U.S.' fault. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          No, no, certainly not. Not the U.S.' fault at all. How should other countries perceive it? Maybe we should just say, "Look, I understand how you're feeling right now but I need to let you know that your feelings are wrong."

                                          Brilliant! That couple with the attitude of "it's not our fault we pissed you off" will surely put us in higher standing with the global community.
                                          Please don't try to be a voice of reason. It's way more fun to spin things out of control. #BecauseCOTH - showhorsegallery

                                          Comment

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