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Just curious: intelligence and breeds

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  • Just curious: intelligence and breeds

    I was talking with my trainer and it was her opinion (which I really value) that you can't beat an Andalusian for smarts. We have a few on the property, and I still think Ted (a TB) is smarter. Of course, individuals vary, as does a proud mama's perception.

    So - for those of you who have dealt with several different breeds, and a number of them - in your opinion, overall, which would you say was the most intelligent? I'm thinking quickness to learn, ability to anticipate, able to consolidate, figure things out, take something from another situation and apply it to a new one.

    No flaming, just curious. Breeders usually select for physical traits, I was wondering if there might be some linkage. The geek in me coming out.
    www.specialhorses.org
    a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues


  • #2
    At the risk of being ridiculed, I'll say that my Arabs are eerily adept at figuring out latches and other avenues of escape.
    (If only they'd use their powers for good...)
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

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    • #3
      As a GROSS generalization, I'd say the hotter bloods tend to be more intelligent on average. But there are always exceptions to a theory like that.
      "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

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      • #4
        Ponies have an evil genius. Quick to learn, especially the wrong thing. They can anticipate the perfect upcoming situation to get even or dump a rider. And they can figure out anything and apply it to a multitude of situations.
        COTH's official mini-donk enabler

        "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

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        • #5
          hmm..depends how you define equine intelligence. That is always hard. And..everyone always thinks that their breed of choice is super smart, thats always how it is with dogs lol. Weve had arabs for years..loved my arabs, smart in some ways but in my experience nothing touches the friesians. They always pick up the roundpen work way faster than the other guys.

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          • #6
            Geek -- I don't know ANYTHING about this topic and so should not comment, but the SuperBowl halftime show sucks, so ... my totally uneducated opinion is that the lowly quarterhorse is severely under-rated in the smarts department. King has done just about everything in his time, from trails & western pleasure to h/j and even a bit of dressage. He always did love to work and I was just noticing tonight that he still has STYLE. Kind of a jack-of-all-trades type of horse. He knows English, has a sense of humor (always a sign of intelligence, right?), and he learns new things very quickly. I live in QH country, and everybody around me thinks they are the best all-around breed on four legs. I don't know if that's true or not, but I think they're pretty danged smart. Hardy, reliable, easy-going, eager-to-please.

            Having said that, my WB is about the smartest "person" I know!

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            • #7
              First we need to define what behavioral characteristics we want to call intelligence in horses.

              Off hand, I would say arabians, because they generally are restless and active, so get into more.
              Brains will make more connections the more they are stimulated and many arabians spend more time doing just that then the majority of other horses.

              We have noticed that in herds of mixed breeds, the arabians generally are doing something interactive all the time, even when the rest are taking a break.

              Since some breeds and mixes have more arabian in them than others, those individuals may also have inherited the relatively more active brains.

              I am just adding one more opinion to this pot.

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              • #8
                You know, I always tease my poor Bodie about being dumb. Truthfully, he's pretty smart.

                His favorite trick to do to the neighboring horses: he'll stand at the fence if they are near the fence, make faces and I guess make comments like their mother is a ghetto ho and such. The horse gets irate, charges the fence and he very carefully (much like a cat and the 1 inch principle) steps in a 90 degree turn from the fence. He does it VERY carefully even, he keeps just enough distance so that they think they can get to him and forget there is a hot wire separating them. ZAPS the offending pony! Then makes faces like, "Geex your dumb!" What's even funnier, and maybe Bo really is dumb, but eventually he stands there begging for someone to "play" with. They get zapped enough times, and they quit. He also doesn't get why the pitiful face doesn't work on them when he really, really wants to play again.
                RIP Bo, the real Appassionato
                5/5/84-7/12/08

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                • #9
                  I've had: TB, QH/TB cross, and WB/TB cross. The TB was a trier, and a sweet, sweet boy. The QH is a cranky, but very smart, cussed, stubborn character. Has a major sense of humor and is very controlling, but people who have never ridden him like him (can you tell how I feel about him???). The WB is smart, can be an escape artist, does learn quickly, but also has a butthead streak, and worries about stuff alot. Can also be a sweetie. Has taken a long time to mature, but had a series of injuries & a 2yr layoff, so, he has excuses.

                  But the smartest one of the herd is my first mini-donkey. I got him not even halter trained and was ground driving him in a couple months. Now that may not sound impressive, but I had NEVER trained any critter that green AND HAD NEVER DRIVEN. They just learn things very quickly.

                  So, here's my **professional** opinion: Temperament (which I believe has equally heritable and environmental elements) in equids really counts in learniing ability. The ones who want to work with you and please will learn the best. This characteristic, I believe, is a case of there being more variation within a population (say a breeding population) than between populations. But donkeys kick ass in the brains department (sorry, couldn't resist). I also have theories about that having to do with social complexity, which is a little more variable in wild asses than wild horses.

                  P.S. Yeah, I'm a social scientist type - social/cultural anthropologist (non-practising but highly trained! )
                  www.moranequinephoto.com
                  "If I am fool, it is, at least, a doubting one; and I envy no one the certainty of his self-approved wisdom."
                  Byron

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                  • #10
                    I think it's how you define intelligence.

                    There was a book out some years ago called "The Intelligence of Dogs" that got a whole lot of press for "ranking" dogs by breed as to which was the "smartest". Author Stanley Coren had Border Collies #1 and Afghan Hounds in last place. What it *didn't* take into account was what the dogs were bred to do. BCs (and other herding breeds, who also tended to score high) were bred to work closely with and take (sometimes highly elaborate) direction from humans. They need to be biddable and extremely responsive, and "multitaskers" (move the whole flock, but be aware of individuals' movements as well).

                    Afghan Hounds, OTOH, were bred to follow quarry by sight, with single-minded determination, independent from human direction.

                    I don't think one breed is inherently "smarter" than the other (although I am a herding breed person ), they are just different. Different types of learning styles and responses to situations.

                    With horses I think it's pretty similar. I've always found Arabs to be really responsive (), and quick to try different approaches to (perceived ) problems. I've seen drafts quickly dismissed as "dumb", but I think they are just more likely to persist in a chosen response to a situation (often involving pushing or leaning ).

                    Personally, I think that ponies (the British native breeds and Icelandics in particular) learn the quickest (not necessarily what we might want them to learn, however ), and don't expend a whole lot of unnecessary energy in the process. I find that Icelandics (raised traditionally in Iceland) and mustangs have an "intelligence" and sensibility that manifests as remarkable self-preservation (i.e. foot stuck in fence? Calmly try to extricate and if not successful wait for help.).

                    Dunno. Generally pretty unanswerable question, I think.

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                    • #11
                      The smartest horse I ever met was my friend's Peruvian Paso. She learned many things with eerie speed, but she also was a bit of a pest for it. In particular, I remember her testing the hot wire with one whisker. If it was off, she'd push under the wire and go for a walk....

                      On the plus side, she was a breeze to train!
                      Don't tell me about what you can't do. That's boring. Show me what you can do. - Mom

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                      • #12
                        Morgans and Arabians

                        Have noticed that the smaller the horse, the more quickly they catch on to things. There are always exceptions, of course.

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                        • #13
                          I have to agree with whoever said ponies. It doesn't matter the breed of pony - all ponies are equally genius. I have met a few ponies who possessed a greater sense of intelligence than their owners and trainers

                          They are evil, mischevous geniuses.

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                          • #14
                            Even though I have arabs (which a lot of people say are the smartest) - I don't think they are necessarily. I think they absorb information the easiest, and they have a serious "try hard all the time" /over-achieving sort of mechanism. But I think a horse of any breed can be smart (undoing latches, waiting for help, accepting of new situations) - some of that having to do with environmental factors, and some being born either smart or stupid - and there are dumb Arabians, intelligent saddlebreds, dumb quarter horses, smart TBs, etc - it's very individual IMO (saying which breed is the smartest is like saying that a particular race is smarter in humans, IMHO - not offensive like that but comparable if that makes sense).

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                            • #15
                              In my experience, I've found the Arabs and Morgans to be most likely to let themselves in/out of stalls, untie themselves, steal things, try to "inspect" stuff, and just in general catch on pretty quickly. I've also found that a dear friends Belgians are big, quiet, and pretty unmotivated most of the time. They are defnitely the sweetest though. Had tons of expereince with Apps, and although kind and great horses, weren't too "keen" either. Made great all around horses though. Of course, these are all ones I've had experience with...so that's all I can base my opinion on. I love them all though...

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                              • #16
                                Scruffy fat ponies with a smirk on their face My TB is very smart and I've also known a QH that was very smart as well as a few others.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                  First we need to define what behavioral characteristics we want to call intelligence in horses.

                                  Off hand, I would say arabians, because they generally are restless and active, so get into more.
                                  Brains will make more connections the more they are stimulated and many arabians spend more time doing just that then the majority of other horses.

                                  We have noticed that in herds of mixed breeds, the arabians generally are doing something interactive all the time, even when the rest are taking a break.

                                  Since some breeds and mixes have more arabian in them than others, those individuals may also have inherited the relatively more active brains.

                                  I am just adding one more opinion to this pot.

                                  THAT explains it! Arabian's have ADHD!
                                  Now my gelding has an excuse....

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    DEFINITELY morgans and arabs. Have definitely met some stupid ones, but for the most part they are pretty darn smart... it seems the closer the brain is to the feet, the smarter the horse too!!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Of all the horses I've owned I agree with the ponies being quite smart. My POA is the sharpest of them all. Show her something once and she's got it.

                                      Sometimes it stinks having a pony smarter than you....
                                      MnToBe Twinkle Star: "Twinkie"
                                      http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...wo/009_17A.jpg

                                      Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!

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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by TheJenners View Post
                                        Ponies have an evil genius.
                                        P-O-N-Y is a four letter word ! Of course, I think Welsh ponies belong in the talented and gifted catagory, but I am partial!
                                        Ridge Farm Inc.-full care retirement
                                        http://www.horseretirementfarm.com

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