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A Must Read about Slaughter hot off the press

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  • Original Poster

    So County, since you are so well experienced with slaughter practices, and you obviously agree that changes at the plant should be made, how do you suggest to improve any or all steps prior to these horses ending up at the gates of such plant.
    Not having been inside a slaughter plant and not ever wanting to set foot in one, does not stop me to do my own research of horses going there. The conditions for these horses from point A (the owner decides it's time to go for the horse) via point B (a middleman who goes around different farms picking up unwanted horses, sometimes pretending they will be going to good homes) to point C (the auction with huge kill pens, with no water, no shelter from the sun or rain, up to 50 horses inside, geldings, mares, stallions; some fighting with each other, causing minor or even major injury such as broken legs. Then being run through the auction area after all normal business has ended, being hit by now drunken auction employees with metal pipes to make them move into the smaller pens assigned to the respective kill buyer, while they are laughing, shouting and very much enjoy seeing horses in pain and screaming with fear, even falling down with broken limbs. Then having to go through the same ordeal again when being loaded in the dark morning hours on the different trucks, being beaten with metal pipes again, scrambling into dark black holes, overtop of each other trying to get away.) Next the dreadful trip on an overcrowded, feces and urine infested truck, maybe double decker, to point D (which could be a feed lot, another auction or two, or perhaps the final destination, the slaughter plant). Hours or days on the road, too weak to stand up sometimes, too hurt, too dehydrated.
    That's the reality we live with and that's the reality our horses, whether they were neglected, or bred to be an expensive pleasure horse, could be facing. If you are supporting all of that by supporting horse slaughter, then that is very sad indeed.
    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

    Comment


    • As I've said before ( you must have missed it ) go back to the system we had in the 60's and 70's. Open up the plants that were shut sdown around the country. Instead of hauling in lasrge semi's 1000's of miles we go back to hauling in our own trailers that the horses know. There handled by people they see everyday, when they get to the plants rather then stand around in holding pens there slaughered within an hour or two. Same system thats used for cull cows here and it works very well.

      Support rthe present system? Have no idea where you got that from if you've actually read what I've posted you'll find I've asked for others to help change the system. So far no one wants to and to me thats very sad indeed.
      Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

      Comment


      • County,

        You are an island of reason in a sea of emotionalism.

        Comment


        • Your probably right. But it really is a question of " does one want to help horses and change conditions for them ?" or "serve ones own agenda ?"
          Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

          Comment


          • County. It is:

            s-l-a-u-g-h-t-e-r

            Comment


            • The American people do not eat horse meat. The American people do not buy horse meat. Therefore, the slaughter of horses is only supported by foreign people in foreign countries. We do not support the horse slaughter indusry either monetarily or ethically. Horses are not food animals in the United States. So why are we being forced to accept their slaughter?
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by county:
              My point is if you buy any product made from slaugterd livestock you help support the industry. And some people use horses as food animals I know thats hard for some to accept but its a fact and always has been. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
              DON'T MAKE ME COME DOWN THERE!!! - God

              Comment


              • For those of you who care to weigh in with your opinion on horse slaughter, the National Horse Protection Coalition has an opinion survey on our website. We ask that you print the survey, fill it out and either fax or mail it back to us. The address and fax are included on the survey for your convenience.

                http://www.horse-protection.org/pdf/opinion.pdf

                Thanks!

                Gail
                www.horse-protection.org

                No Horses to Slaughter Clique

                Comment


                • We aren't forced to supply them with horse meat its totally the choice of each of us. And its called export we export many products just as we import many products.

                  BTW I know how its spelled just doesn't bother me if its wrong. Seems to not be the case for some others.
                  Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                  Comment


                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SafeHorses:
                    Poltroon, the lucrative side of horse slaughter is the amount of money these companies can make by selling them to Europe and Asia for food. Take the human consumption part out, and the demand falls drastically. There will still be some slaughter at a very low rate and one can only hope the USDA will be able to better regulate conditions at this smaller rate of business so that it would be more humane. These huge plants that process thousands of horses a day for the tightest bottom line possible aren't the same thing at all. But I will say that I think the USDA has been overtaken by agribusiness and is now the fox is in the henhouse. Something does need to be done about that for ALL slaughter.

                    The law would outlaw the transportation of horses for slaughter across the borders. So, that too will go down drastically. It won't become economically feasible anymore, but I realize that won't stop the flow completely. But I ask you, which law does stop anything completely? Murder still happens. Theft still happens. Nothing is perfect, but that is not a reason to turn one's back on the situation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    So if that's where all the money is, in human consumption, that's where the main lobbying pressure against this bill should be coming from, right?

                    What is so hard about removing that phrase from this or any other bill?!?!?!?!

                    It is a simple change. Makes the bill shorter. Outlaw slaughter plants - ie, any place where more than one horse is slaughtered and used for meat a day. Much easier to enforce, too.

                    If you have the votes for the bill you have now, you have the votes for my proposed changes. It would be better for the horses.

                    Am I shouting? Yes! I am frustrated. I do not care what happens to dead horses. I care what happens to live horses.

                    The USDA has little or no interest in regulating slaughter of animals not intended for human food. They've got their hands full as it is.

                    To think that people who currently ship horses to Canada for slaughter aren't smart enough to say "Oh, riding horses" at the boarder is naive. They've already figured it out for the double-decker trucks.
                    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      Going back to the 60's and 70's? Wouldn't that be nice, we would be able to afford putting gas into our cars, LOL.
                      This is 2005. We order things on the Internet instead of driving all over town to find that one specific item to buy. We spend hours infront of the tube instead of reading a good book.
                      People are more lazy and less emotionally involved about everything in life now; do you think those people who knowingly send their horses to slaughter care how they get there?
                      ************************
                      \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                      Comment


                      • Yes very much so just asc we care how our cattle and all our livestock go to slaughter
                        Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                        Comment


                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Susan P:
                          We are on the subject of horse slaughter, not slaughter of any food animal.

                          On the subject of horse slaughter, they are not food animals, never were, never designed to be. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          In Iceland horses are food animals as well as riding animals. Many horse farms cull the foals for the freezer. There are no cattle in Iceland.

                          In India, cattle are not food animals. Even McDonald's doesn't sell beef there.

                          I agree with you about improving the lives of all food animals, and I try to buy humanely raised meat whenever possible.
                          If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                          Comment


                          • It most definately is not the choice of each of us, or it would have stopped.
                            I don't have any control over what is exported. Apparently, the state of Texas doesn't either, since the plants there continue to operate contrary to state law.
                            So, exactly whose choice is it?

                            [QUOTE]Originally posted by county:
                            We aren't forced to supply them with horse meat its totally the choice of each of us. And its called export we export many products just as we import many products.
                            DON'T MAKE ME COME DOWN THERE!!! - God

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by county:
                              Yes very much so just asc we care how our cattle and all our livestock go to slaughter </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              So I suppose the way I described how the auction house people treat the horses destined for slaughter, as well as the kill buyers stuffing them into insanely overcrowded trailers is just a misconception of mine, they really do care about those horses, right????
                              ************************
                              \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"

                              Comment


                              • Were talking two differant groups when you said people who knowingly send stock to slaughter I'm thinking those who sell them. The drivers of big rigs care? Not at all most don't even own horses.

                                As far as the choice my meaning is we all have a choice to sell a horse or not sell one. And I'll defend your right to that choice just as I'll defend mine
                                Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                Comment


                                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by county:
                                  BTW could someone show me where the USDA has propsed horses being in there tracking system propsal. All the liturature I've sent for and received has said its for any meat animal legally sold within the U.S. borders. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                  http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/newsroom/factsheets...s_qa_factsheet.shtml

                                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Q. What Species Will be Included in the NAIS?
                                  A. The NAIS is being developed for all animals that will benefit from having a system to facilitate rapid traceback/traceout in the event of disease concern. Currently, working groups are developing plans for aquaculture, camelids (llamas and alpacas), cattle/bison, cervids (deer and elk), equine, goats, poultry, sheep, and swine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                  USDA intends to track all livestock-like animals, including horses, all poultry, all camelids, all swine, all ruminants. It will not matter if any individual is intended for the food chain or not. Thus pet pigs and pet ducks and horses and pet goats and llamas are all included.

                                  They are not just worried about diseased animals going to slaughter directly, but also about tracking animals capable transmitting disease, a la hoof-and-mouth and vesicular stomatitis in horses, and exotic Newcastle in poultry. If they have a database of every animal that has been within (say) a mile of a breakout case, they know right where to go to track and/or euthanize every possible carrier to contain the outbreak. I'm sure the USDA will put its utmost into making sure that they don't have any more fiascos like they did for Exotic Newcastle where so many thousands of chickens were destroyed by government mandate that they resorted to a wood chipper to handle the volume.
                                  If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                                  Comment


                                  • It will be easy to track anything that goes through a sale or slaughter plant. But pets? I'm thinking that will be as big a joke as the coggins test requirment.
                                    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                    Comment


                                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sswor:
                                      Here's what we all agree on (I think, correct me if this is too broad a generalisation):

                                      The current slaughter system is inhumane for ALL animals.

                                      Great. So... let's all put our incredibly intelegent collective heads together and come up with a SOLUTION.

                                      I have a few solutions for the equine aspect that I can think of, not sure I like any of them:

                                      Solution 1: Send all the unwanted horses to "rescue" centers where they can live out their days.
                                      Problem: No funding other then tax dollars, lack of open land which is diminishing rapidly thanks to suburban sprawl. The BLM can't even get rid of their own horses.

                                      Solution 2: Federally control equine breeding operations in the U.S. to cut down on overbreeding and bad breeding.
                                      Problem: The feds could give a crap about equine breeding opperations and breeders would NEVER go for it.

                                      Solution 3: Ship the unwanted horses live to other countries.
                                      Problem: Don't think I have to even explain that one.

                                      Can't think of anything else. Anyone else have a plan? C'mon, seriously, let's stop bickering and try to figure out a solution. Is there one? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Sswor, great post.

                                      Here is my solution.

                                      REGULATE slaughter as follows:
                                      1. Horses may not be transported via double-decker trailer FOR ANY REASON. That would be NEVER.

                                      2. Require health certificates and coggins testing and whatever other papers they require for ANY horse crossing the international border in either direction. No exceptions for slaughter-bound horses.

                                      3. Require equine slaughter plants (defined as any facility that slaughters more than 1 horse per day and/or 10 horses a month) to have specifically designed facilities to restrain the horse's head, or whatever is appropriate. I would defer to Dr. Grandin on the specifics of this point.

                                      4. Consider regulating the plants limiting them to x horses per day total, or perhaps per line. IE, requiring say 10 minutes per horse minimum, or some other timeframe deemed appropriate.

                                      5. The plants should pay the full burdened cost of a USDA certified vet to personally observe every death and to keep statistics on how well the restraint system is working to insure quick and humane deaths. This would be in addition to the USDA personnel required to inspect carcasses, which is the bulk of the responsibility of the USDA.

                                      6. Nowhere in any of these regulations should there be any difference between "human consumption" and animal consumption or whatever else you might want to do with a carcass.

                                      These would not outlaw slaughter, but they would impose certain costs on the procedure that would likely have an economic impact. They're fairly easy to apply and understand by everyone on all sides. However, it would not forbid artisan slaughter for personal consumption, should one wish to do so, nor would it forbid wildlife organizations from killing horsemeat directly on the premises for their animals, as long as they did not exceed one per day. I figure anyone killing one horse a day is going to take their time about it for the safety and comfort of everyone involved.
                                      If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                                      Comment


                                      • Country...So you worked in 3 slaughter houses, You will get no Bozo Button from me..All that tells me is you are desentized to slaughter. I would also venture that there is a whole lot of job turnover in all slaughter houses. With the turnover in the slaughter houses how can the bolt gun be used with precision 100% of the time? Did you actually kill the animals when you worked there? and if the job was so good why did you quit? The word killers says it all as far as I am concered. Kill buyers, kill auction, kill horses. The work kill in this way only refering to horses sounds just as bad as it really is. You dont hear that word used when it comes to other animals and I think that sends a loud message. Cattle do go to auction , and anyone taking cattle to an auction knows what the end result will be, it is not like that with horses. There are people that are on the fence with how they feel about horse slaughter and say they would never send their own horses to suffer this fate, but as far as I go and other anti slaughter people we not only love our own horses, but we love all equines and care about not wanting them to suffer.I am talking about all equines here.

                                        Comment


                                        • Poltroon: not a bad summary. And I don't think you were even yelling in this last post! Not sure why you were yelling to begin with...?

                                          I personally would like to see ALL horse slaughter stopped, but that's just me and my personal opinion.

                                          I have no idea if anything you've written is possible, but it certainly would go a long way to cutting out the abuses we see in the system now. I haven't had time to read this thread much today, but you seem to be the first person to address the problems that the anti slaughter people have with the current system in a manner most could probably live with.

                                          I understand your problem with the distinction regarding human consumption but I still believe the distinction is there because that's where the demand for the meat is coming from. I don't like the distinction either, but it's because my personal preference, if I were the Absolute Ruler of All Mankind, Etc., would be to stop all horse slaughter and stop all inhumane slaughter regardless of the animal.

                                          I don't have to justify that desire, as it's my own personal desire, but I do have the right, as all Americans do, to lobby my elected officials to stop the currently awful business of horse slaugther in this country. So I will continue to work for the passage of the anti slaughter bill because I can't stand all the talking while the horses are dying.
                                          Until they are safe.
                                          www.safehorses.org

                                          Comment

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