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Can someone explain this to me?

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  • #61
    Hahahaa... The video titled "Tantrum" made me laugh. Why??

    His own method was biting him in the butt.

    Every once in a while you run into a really smart kinda nasty mostly lazy horse and they will show you what an idiot you are.

    He had obviously laid down that horse before to show his amazing skills. So horse is stressed stressed stressed by a human. Human lays them down and pets them and stops stressing them. Horse doesn't want to work? Lay down! About halfway through that video you can see him realize what an idiot he is (he praises her the first couple times, THEN starts hitting and kicking).

    Mwhahahahaha.

    I would like to see him work with a truly dangerous horse. Those are just half-feral thoroughbred babies. Most of them have little fits but aren't going for blood. They're also young and small... easily impressionable and overwelmed. You wouldn't catch me dead breaking out our TB babies, but I can still appreciate the difference between something stressed/scared/mildly evil and something really dangerous. Like the yearling I had that was a dirty striker versus the ones that balk and buck a little.

    ~Adrienne

    Comment


    • #62
      You're right - lots of us have had no experience in riding yearlings that are ruined to the point that only laying them down will let the human survive the experience of making a useful citizen of the killer baby horse, like endospink is doing.

      Personally, I started my last horse under saddle when he was 3 1/2 and about 1200 pounds and the whole thing was as thrilling and dangerous as watching paint dry, which is the way I like it.

      Each to his own....

      Comment


      • #63
        He never even actually laid that particular horse down did he? Perhaps I missed it, but I thought that it looked like he was just driving her forward and she kept laying herself down. I agree, laying down is not a method for every horse or even most horses, but for those few who need it, it works. In my experience, it is a last ditch effort to fix a problem that would otherwise lead the horse to the kill pen.

        Comment


        • #64
          Hey has anyone seen Endo ?
          http://www.myspace.com/pinkbitz
          http://www.youtube.com/endospink
          http://www.hybrid-horseman.com/

          Comment


          • #65
            yah he was posting on another board I was on a few hours ago. He's in japan remember. Has gone to work.

            Doesn't actually know what COTH is. Believe it or not, the world doesn't revolve around COTH :P

            Comment


            • #66
              Yes, I've seen it. I'd be very interested in seeing an actual study that proves that endorphin release is what is causing the horse to collapse, because frankly to me it looks more like pressure on the vagus nerve is causing the horse's heart and respiration rates to drop. In which case, I don't think it's quite as harmless as it looks, and rather analogous to choking a dog or human into unconsciousness. They tend to be rather mellow when they regain consciousness afterwards, too. At least for a time.

              There is a place for that sort of thing - I have myself choked dogs into unconsciousness a time or two when there was no other option - but I don't consider it a routine training technique suited to most handlers or most dogs. More of an emergency technique, to be used instead of a well placed bullet.

              I suspect this technique is a similar tool when it comes to horses, and as such I don't expect to ever have to use it. There are a lot of less dramatic training techniques that suffice to do the job in almost all situations. There should be very, very few horses indeed who would require such drastic measures in most trainer's lives.

              However - if the only tool you have is a hammer, pretty soon everything looks like a nail.....

              Comment


              • #67
                Why didn't he have someone lead the filly?

                Quite common for the youngsters not to go forward, actually, when green under saddle. And when kicked they shut down further.

                I think that little filly is one of the smartest ones I've seen. I raise my glass to that scrappy little thing!
                Meet Wendall the wonder horse
                and introducing Machado! http://pets.webshots.com/photo/28186...SDi?vhost=pets

                Comment


                • #68
                  I should add, I think with true problem horses, desperate measures are warranted - and maybe this filly was - though I see no indication of that. I see a green, young, confused filly.
                  Meet Wendall the wonder horse
                  and introducing Machado! http://pets.webshots.com/photo/28186...SDi?vhost=pets

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Coup De Des View Post
                    You are a moron. That horse is not being lay down. You blind person. That horse refuses to go forward and is throwing itself down on the ground.


                    Are you BLIND!?! Oh, I get it, you are one of his groupies.

                    That horse is NOT throwing itself down. He is throwing the horse down just like he did every other horse in every other video for ABSOLUTELY no valid reason. That horse, like so many others in the videos, is a baby. Young horses have to be TAUGHT to go forward from the leg.

                    It is ludicris to think that a young horse that simply won't immediately from the leg is a rogue, and deserves having someone PARALYZE them by pinching a nerve.
                    http://www.MyVirtualEventingCoach.com

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by OakesBrae View Post
                      Why didn't he have someone lead the filly?

                      Quite common for the youngsters not to go forward, actually, when green under saddle. And when kicked they shut down further.

                      I think that little filly is one of the smartest ones I've seen. I raise my glass to that scrappy little thing!
                      Very smart...she knew I was helpless is she sat down, look at her ears she was relaxed sitting there..

                      I didn't want her going down there because I only had a small window before the other farms started coming in..

                      If I wanted her down I would have drop her in the round pen..

                      I had a guy try and lead her but as soon as he gave a tug on the lead she ran back until she felt something touch her butt and wouldn't budge..

                      Thats why I pulled her out of the round pen. She backed up to the wall and reared against the wall if I applied any pressure to get her to come off it..

                      If you noticed I was swinging her butt around to keep her away from the walls in the indoor..
                      http://www.myspace.com/pinkbitz
                      http://www.youtube.com/endospink
                      http://www.hybrid-horseman.com/

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        You must be endo, nice to meet you.

                        Ooh, the little stinker! Did she do that on the ground too without a rider or was it a reaction to weight?

                        Sounds like a challenge just in general - but likely one that if you got her in your corner she'd be fantastic!
                        Meet Wendall the wonder horse
                        and introducing Machado! http://pets.webshots.com/photo/28186...SDi?vhost=pets

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Oh I should say - yes, I noticed that about the wall and wondered about it, because often times that's a nice reminder to go forward (when the wall bites them in the butt).
                          Meet Wendall the wonder horse
                          and introducing Machado! http://pets.webshots.com/photo/28186...SDi?vhost=pets

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            I guess he's not likely to post videos of getting bucked over a horse's ears, is he? I might actually pay money to see that one! I don't see any training or learning happening.

                            Whatever happened to starting them in ground work and ground driving before putting them under saddle? Plenty of the people in my area who break TB's for the track do all of that. Then again, there is a small percentage of horses who buck and throw themselves around like maniacs and go to a very talented cowboy in the area. One of the horses sent to him had excellent ground manners--she was just nearly impossible to ride. A friend watched him work her. The cowboy doesn't man-handle them, just toughs it out and manages to get some kind of lesson in with the horse each time he works it. That guy went from unknown to having a waiting list of difficult racehorses to break.

                            I couldn't even watch all of the "Tantrum" clip. One time the horse went down it went nose-in-the-dirt before the shoulder went down. I wonder if the guy also does chiropractic work, because the horses sure need it after he's done his under-saddle work! No thanks!!
                            "Passion without knowledge is a runaway horse."

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              [QUOTE=lstevenson;2075232]Are you BLIND!?! Oh, I get it, you are one of his groupies.
                              That horse is NOT throwing itself down. He is throwing the horse down just like he did every other horse in every other video for ABSOLUTELY no valid reason. That horse, like so many others in the videos, is a baby. Young horses have to be TAUGHT to go forward from the leg.
                              QUOTE]

                              Isteventurnedon.......have you got white eyes too like that old dude ?

                              How the "H" did I get her down on a loose rein ?

                              You need pressure to execute the tap...

                              Could you not see the intentional twist she was chucking in on the ground ?
                              http://www.myspace.com/pinkbitz
                              http://www.youtube.com/endospink
                              http://www.hybrid-horseman.com/

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by OakesBrae View Post
                                You must be endo, nice to meet you.

                                Ooh, the little stinker! Did she do that on the ground too without a rider or was it a reaction to weight?

                                Sounds like a challenge just in general - but likely one that if you got her in your corner she'd be fantastic!
                                She tried to lay down when I was doing my chin strap up before I got on her, that why I pulled the reins over her head so she wouldn't tread on them..

                                She's a little cutey...she got a short compact body build for speed and I'll get the 3rd installment of how she's going now up in a day or too ok..
                                http://www.myspace.com/pinkbitz
                                http://www.youtube.com/endospink
                                http://www.hybrid-horseman.com/

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  That IS a smart one. I'd love to see her go I'd love to hear more about her history - when the problem was discovered etc.
                                  Meet Wendall the wonder horse
                                  and introducing Machado! http://pets.webshots.com/photo/28186...SDi?vhost=pets

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Originally posted by OakesBrae View Post
                                    Oh I should say - yes, I noticed that about the wall and wondered about it, because often times that's a nice reminder to go forward (when the wall bites them in the butt).

                                    She backed up about 15m when the guy tried to lead and crached into some bushes but then kept going, I had to get off because she wasn't focused on the enviroment around her just me..
                                    http://www.myspace.com/pinkbitz
                                    http://www.youtube.com/endospink
                                    http://www.hybrid-horseman.com/

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by OakesBrae View Post
                                      Why didn't he have someone lead the filly?

                                      Quite common for the youngsters not to go forward, actually, when green under saddle. And when kicked they shut down further.
                                      I agree. I don't understand getting on young horses without a ground person. A ground person makes the whole thing less scary and less confusing for them. How on earth is a horse who's never been sat on supposed to know what the proper response to being kicked is?

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Eek! Yea, THAT'S not a fun situation at all. Stubborn as heck *laughing*
                                        Meet Wendall the wonder horse
                                        and introducing Machado! http://pets.webshots.com/photo/28186...SDi?vhost=pets

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          As a person who has a VERY easily triggered "Vagus response", let me tell you it is NO FUN.

                                          I'm pretty sure that is what is happening here...

                                          The vagus nerve is being activated, which drops your blood pressure down to ZERO, which makes you black out until your heart screams.."WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON???!! ARE WE DIE-ING???!" and quickly pumps you full of adrenalin and kicks your blood pressure into 5th gear to bring you back to consciousness. At which point, you are dizzy, disoriented, sweating and feel ill. This whole thing can happen in a matter of SECONDS. Perhaps as little as 4 seconds from beginning to end.

                                          Believe me, if someone used that technique to get me to do something, I'd be all "YES SIR!" too, you'd better believe it!

                                          It's a terrible feeling, and if that is in fact what this "technique" is doing, I think the purveyors of the technique should enjoy a few "vassal vagal" episodes themselves, to see what it is like.

                                          CInder

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