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Can someone explain this to me?

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  • #21
    Total crap.
    Total garbage.
    Total Hi, Im a cowboy which in my world is the exact equivalent of a testosteroned psychopath with a big belt buckle coz SOMETHING on me has to be big.

    blech.
    one oak, lots of canyons

    http://horsesportnews.wordpress.com/

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    • #22
      Yes, I agree with Queen Latisha that the horse is passing out rather than being layed down. The passing out part is very obvious in those videos...although I had no idea how he was getting the horse to pass out.
      You jump in the saddle,
      Hold onto the bridle!
      Jump in the line!
      ...Belefonte

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      • #23
        Originally posted by Queen Latisha View Post
        Vagal nerve stimulation decrease the horses blood pressure, causing the horse "pass out".
        Definitely not something I'd try then. I'll stick to more conventional training methods (like clicker training ). Thanks for the info! It's so hard to evaluate these things based on a video designed to make the handler look like a magician. I figure the fancier the ad, the hokier the product.
        "Passion without knowledge is a runaway horse."

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        • #24
          Originally posted by canyonoak View Post
          Total Hi, Im a cowboy which in my world is the exact equivalent of a testosteroned psychopath with a big belt buckle coz SOMETHING on me has to be big.
          I think that big belt-buckles are an attempt to compensate for something rather not big. (I'll give you a hint: it's not the ego!)
          "Passion without knowledge is a runaway horse."

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          • #25
            Has anyone went to the site and looked at all his videos? I am fixin' to right now... will return with my take on it...
            http://www.the-endorphin-tap.com/Multimeadia.html

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            • #26
              odd. very odd.

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              • #27
                OK, I am pretty sure he is starting out by "grabbing a shoulder hold" Grab a hunk of skin in the right spot and fold it over...horse will bend its neck like that and submit for many things, I have used it often on younguns and olduns. I also think he is tightening something in the girth area...not sure, but I have seen horses go down like that once or twice in my life wghen the girth was tightened. Some combo of the two maybe? I haven't watched all of them yet...some are rather silly. Oh, BTW I believe he's an Aussie, maybe some of our downunder COTHer's know of him?

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                • #28
                  I think it's that neck thing that someone earlier in the thread was describing. Looks like the horse's circulation or something was compromised and trying not to pass out.

                  Honestly, I wasn't impressed with the technique. Particularly after the video on his myspace page of him doing it to a youngster for his first saddling. I didn't see a "calmer" youngster. He was galloping around the indoor track thing and bucking....now, he stuck the horse pretty well bareback, but...I didn't need to do anything like that for my youngster.

                  Just weird.
                  Meet Wendall the wonder horse
                  and introducing Machado! http://pets.webshots.com/photo/28186...SDi?vhost=pets

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                  • #29
                    The sad thing is some people will see this BS as a replacement to just good basics.
                    Poor horses
                    I\'m not crazy. I\'m just a little unwell.

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                    • #30
                      This is EXTREMELY disturbing.
                      What I absolutely HATE is that after all this "laying down" the horse is completely lame in the hindquarters. It's just sickening.

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                      • #31
                        It's just a variation of breaking the horse's spirit and showing him who is boss. A good way to permanently injure a horse too. Or worse. I think there is a reason we can't see much up close and personal there. It does look like he is putting pressure on a nerve (as posted above) and making him pass out. Macho trick.

                        Now this might be an option for the last resort horse, tame it or shoot it but almost all horses will respond to the back to the basics approach. Even it means going back to step ONE and using time and patience. (what a concept!) I'd rather have a horse trained to do what I ask out of trust then out of fear.

                        If they wanted to teach that horse to lead first take all the tack off him and hey, teach him to lead! You can earn trust and respect in the round pen without making the horse pass out. Most of the people I've seen lay the horse down do it ONLY after teaching him the basics and then teaching him to lay down, not forcing him to.

                        Well at least he didn't flip him over when he reared which was the OLD cowboy way to do it! =8-O

                        Now that was a good way to kill your horse!
                        Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

                        Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.

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                        • #32
                          There is no way in hell that a good horsemen should think "impairing the blood flow to the brain and making the horse pass out" is an acceptable form of horse handling. It is blatant bloody abuse and these assholes should sit in the clink for this crap!! I am absolutely FURIOUS.

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                          • #33
                            He pokes fun at N/H in his videos, and the more I watch, I think that is what he is doing, grabbing a shoulder.and tightening the girth, or some type of cinch, so far he always has the horse tacked up in the vids.Some crazy stuff on You tube...

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by tbtrailrider View Post
                              Has anyone went to the site and looked at all his videos? I am fixin' to right now... will return with my take on it...
                              http://www.the-endorphin-tap.com/Multimeadia.html
                              The video "The Tantrum" is horrible. That poor baby. That is abuse. Absolute and total ABUSE. He is riding a baby and forces the horse down to the ground so many times that the horse just refuses to get back up. So he is on top of the horse kicking him to get him to rise. So then when the horse does get back up, he ends up whipping the horse with a crop trying to get him to go forward. This asshole should be burned at the stake!

                              Does anybody know of an animal rights organization in Australia such as the ASPCA that we have here in the states? I want to report this website to whomever I can. This is just unbelievable.

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                              • #35
                                Nothing new- he just gave it his own name- thanksfully he's not trying to market the heck out of it for big $$. We were discussing this on another board. I've seen it before as a teen so that's 20 yrs ago- without ropes. I've seen similar things using ropes (think Horse Whisperer movie near the end when he gets the girl to ride).

                                My point of view... it's certainly less humane than some pretty well wide used methods to submit a horse. HOWEVER it should never be used as a primary approach to all horse training... rather as a last resort for the difficult dominant types.

                                What I do wonder is long term effectiveness? This guy (Endo on Myspace) has a bunch of videos, more than just what is on the website. It looks like one horse figured it out to be a pretty effective method to be evasive. Of course the crop came out to handle that situation.

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                                • #36
                                  BTW the guy sounds like a &*$% yahoo idiot on his myspace.

                                  What makes him *not* a trainer in my opinion.... he handles all situations in the same approach.

                                  A good 'trainer' or.... whatever he's calling himself on YouTube... is one who can adapt/utilize a large variety of humane training methods to the needs of the horse. Clearly not the case here.

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                                  • #37
                                    Anyone notice that his name was endospink?? Maybe it's just me ;-)
                                    Meet Wendall the wonder horse
                                    and introducing Machado! http://pets.webshots.com/photo/28186...SDi?vhost=pets

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Vagus nerve.

                                      And the %#$@wit hasn't a clue about what a "behaviorist" actually does.

                                      Originally posted by Huntertwo View Post
                                      Sort of like training a dog who wants to be the Alpha over its owner, I've read when the dog is agressive flip him over on his back (gently) with belly exposed. Sort of like Wolf behavior.
                                      NO! NO! NO!!! That's a great way to get yourself bitten in the face. Don't EVER do the "alpha roll" thing. It is *not* the way to position yourself at the head of the pecking order. Wolves do not go flipping others over to assert dominance. The submissive animal rolls itself over and *offers* it's own belly. The alpha roll was a gravely misguided technique that has since been discredited even by the trainers (Monks of New Skete) who popularized it. Don't use it! It'll potentially traumatize softer dogs, and provoke harder ones. AARGH! (Sorry for the vent. Dog trainer here, and I've seen *way* too many dogs messed up by this crap.)

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                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by citydog View Post
                                        Vagus nerve.

                                        And the %#$@wit hasn't a clue about what a "behaviorist" actually does.



                                        NO! NO! NO!!! That's a great way to get yourself bitten in the face. Don't EVER do the "alpha roll" thing. It is *not* the way to position yourself at the head of the pecking order. Wolves do not go flipping others over to assert dominance. The submissive animal rolls itself over and *offers* it's own belly. The alpha roll was a gravely misguided technique that has since been discredited even by the trainers (Monks of New Skete) who popularized it. Don't use it! It'll potentially traumatize softer dogs, and provoke harder ones. AARGH! (Sorry for the vent. Dog trainer here, and I've seen *way* too many dogs messed up by this crap.)
                                        So true...

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                                        • #40

                                          Is this the guy who was on horsecity?
                                          Some one was fawning over some guy who layed the horses down. Don't remember what the deal was.

                                          Steve

                                          Yep!

                                          He claimed to be able to make any horse submit, and be usable? Wthf?

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