someone explain to me what's going on with this horse

[MistyBlue]

Some of the halter horses are HUGE...hubby calls them Ahh-nold Horses.
Check out this dude:
http://www.thehalterhorse.com/stalli...ey/patch06.jpg

[MNP]

I don't want this to sound as rude as it does, but what is the point of these horses? Do they ever actually do anything or is their sole purpose in life to stand? Wouldn't how well a horse holds up in competition and use prove what is good confo or not? Are these horses ever ridden? Do people who show halter horses do anything else but stand there holding the lead rope?

[hitchinmygetalong]

They have introduced the Halter Performance Classes for this coming year. In those classes only horses who have earned their perfomance ROM (ten points in one performance class or ten points overall in a variety of classes) may compete. The winner of the performance halter class then competes against the winner of the regular halter class.

It will be interesting to see if that starts to change anything.

Quoting this because it deserves to be repeated on page two.

This is most definitely a step in the right direction. Let's hope the judges can make the best judgement for the breed.

[mintyfresh]

I don't want this to sound as rude as it does, but what is the point of these horses? Do they ever actually do anything or is their sole purpose in life to stand? Wouldn't how well a horse holds up in competition and use prove what is good confo or not? Are these horses ever ridden? Do people who show halter horses do anything else but stand there holding the lead rope?

These horses are almost never ridden and only ever show in-hand.

They are introducing a Perfomance Halter Class, where a horse must have it's performance ROM to be able to show. The winner of that class will then compete against the top regular halter horse. Hopefully this will start to encourage more rideable halter horses.

[BravAddict]

Why does one breed horses that cannot be ridden?

Horses have to sing for their supper; making them unrideable denies them their means and puts them in harm's way.

[ddashaq]

I boarded at a barn where the BM had halter horses. That mare is not nearly as massive as the horses he had, many of which were younger than her. There was a two year old gelding that was on something close to 20 lbs of grain per day. And he was never turned out because running burns muscle. They would get lunged at a trot only for a short time (until they sweated, which was not long in their condition) and then they would get a neck sweat on for a while. Having been fully submersed in dressage and jumping since I was 8, it was quite an eye opener. Then I had to judge halter at the world show for the college judging team. I totally bombed it because I placed a horse in last because when his legs straightened hi hocks VANISHED. It was sick. In any case, the judges placed him first so I did not do very well. Oh, and in halter terms (at least this guys) full feed means grain in front of them 24/7. Nice, huh?

[MNP]

Glad to hear about the Performance halter class, but does that mean they are getting rid of the original halter class and replacing it with Performance or will there be both?

[War Admiral]

Speaking as an old-timer, am I the only one who remembers the day when ALL Quarter Horses had this same general body type? Give or take some weird conformational hiccups in this individual, this WAS the breed standard for foundation QH. So in all honesty I can't quite see what the fuss is all about... Am I missing something?

[caffeinated]

I dunno...

I've seen pictures of some of the foundation sires, and some of the old timey typical QHs... and they were beefy/muscley, sure, but at least had decent(er) looking legs that looked like they would make for a ridable horse that would stay sound.

Take King- definitely beefy, but there's some angulation in the hind legs and not quite as straight pasterns as what's being shown today in halter...

[War Admiral]

I dunno...

I've seen pictures of some of the foundation sires, and some of the old timey typical QHs... and they were beefy/muscley, sure, but at least had decent(er) looking legs that looked like they would make for a ridable horse that would stay sound.

Take King- definitely beefy, but there's some angulation in the hind legs and not quite as straight pasterns as what's being shown today in halter...

Oh I know, I don't disagree in the least about the bizarre leg angles... And I know that's an issue nowadays w/ QH halter horses. But I do think the suggestion of steroids is prolly way off base. All I was trying to get across is that the general body type of this horse, *discounting* the unfortunate leg confo, is actually pretty typical from what I recall.

Back in the 60s one farm I farm-sat regularly had a champion halter mare age 4 who was built like a Sherman Tank, she was huuuuuuuuuuge. And she was fed a perfectly normal diet like that of any other horse. 3 small feeds of grain a day and free choice hay. No weird stuff; I would have known about it b/c I had access to everything at the place.

[cinder88]

..and people wonder why the Impressive line, that introduced HYPP to the QH breed, wasn't eradicated when it began to be obvious he was passing on a heritable illness to his foals?

BECAUSE HYPP makes muscle, and muscle and bulk WIN in the halter ring.

Unfortunately, HYPP also KILLS...But..HEY! Not all of them die and the ones who don't make for a great halter horse!

The breeding of HYPP positive horses should have been stopped YEARS ago. BUt, it makes money and takes ribbons, so the AQHA just let it slide.

When you've got 40 horses in the pen at the World Show, and you can SEE the muscles quiver in some of them, from HYPP....and a couple actually go DOWN in the ring. The handler stands them back up again. I was there and I saw it.

The horse in the next stall to mine also had HYPP and suffocated to death while we waited for the vet.

DON'T get me started! (Oops...too late!)

Cinder

[hitchinmygetalong]

Speaking as an old-timer, am I the only one who remembers the day when ALL Quarter Horses had this same general body type? Give or take some weird conformational hiccups in this individual, this WAS the breed standard for foundation QH. So in all honesty I can't quite see what the fuss is all about... Am I missing something?

How "old timer" are you? Pre-Impressive?

The fuss is all about the fact that for the last 30 years QH breeders have been selectively breeding for the overly-muscled, beef-cattle look. In doing this, they have created a horse that is a "one trick pony" in that it may LOOK like a strong horse, but has so many conformational and metabolic problems that it would be culled from the herd back in the day...

[Auventera Two]

Do you have proof to back up your claim that "HYPP causes muscles?" I have never heard this before at all.

I boarded with an HYPP positive mare, who actually had a couple of episodes and was eventually euthanized, but she wasn't bulked up at all. In fact she looked more like a TB, and her owner rode hunt seat and just pleasure trail riding on her.

[Auventera Two]

How "old timer" are you? Pre-Impressive?

The fuss is all about the fact that for the last 30 years QH breeders have been selectively breeding for the overly-muscled, beef-cattle look. In doing this, they have created a horse that is a "one trick pony" in that it may LOOK like a strong horse, but has so many conformational and metabolic problems that it would be culled from the herd back in the day...

Yes - you're right. This is why I love the Invester line of horses. They succeed in Halter, but they succeed in performance as well. Really good Halter judges place the horses who are heavily muscled, but properly built as well. Horses that could walk into a ring and get down on a cow. Not horses that have to be drug back to their stall because they can barely walk.

I saw a QH mare at a local show one time who was so severely, grotesquely muscled that she was muscle bound. She took itty bitty baby steps on her tiny teacup feet. She didn't even place. The judge didn't even give her a second look. Instead he placed the horses who were a complete picture - not just grotesquely huge.

[arena run]

This horse and its build have been well explained here on this thread. It's GENETICS. A different genetics than the horses in the sport horse world are used to, sure. But still genetics. It's like anything that human beings are fiddling with - especially if it makes money. There will be extremes.

I like the idea of the Performance Halter I've read about. Those In The Know understand that breeding and managing this specialized type of horse is really - umm, shall we just put the word to it? - Stupid? Shortsighted? Damaging to the breed in the long run?

Actually, I think this filly is kinda cute (not what I'd buy for riding but she does what she's bred to do, you know?). Big Butts and Pretty Heads. That's how one American Quarter Horse breeding farm bills itself. Ya'll are maybe used to too many Appendix bred Quarters?? This one is, admittedly, a bit extreme but look at her pedigree. Kid Clu. I mean, that says it all. Try googling some images of HIM if you want an eyeful. sylvia

[moonriverfarm]

I think of it as sort of like raising veal, or foie gras. To avoid a severe flaming possibility, I'll say no more.

[NoDQhere]

It's a halter horse. In halter circles, this is a desirable look, except for that neck. It doesn't appeal to me, and I doubt anyone will be brave enough to defend it here on a very different kind of forum than one where she would be popular, but much like Quaterback, there are going to be some out there that find this sort of extreme type appealing.

Of course the HUGE DIFFERENCE is that Quaterback is a RIDING HORSE. He is an athlete who is CORRECT in his movement, not extreme, just very very good. The type of QH pictured is a halter horse, good for nothing except standing. Or eating, I suppose

[kellyb]

Do you have proof to back up your claim that "HYPP causes muscles?" I have never heard this before at all.

I boarded with an HYPP positive mare, who actually had a couple of episodes and was eventually euthanized, but she wasn't bulked up at all. In fact she looked more like a TB, and her owner rode hunt seat and just pleasure trail riding on her.

HYPP doesn't cause muscles, it is a disease that paralyzes them. Impressive is the sire who is influential in not only big beefy halter horses, but HYPP as well.

I believe that starting in 07 AQHA will no longer register horses that carry the gene.

"1. Rule 227 will be amended making foals of the calendar year 2006 & after ineligible for registration if they are descendants of the stallion Impressive, AQHA #0767246 & found to by HYPP Positive (H/H).

2. Additionally, Rule 227 will be amended to provide that foals of 2010 & later that are found to be HYPP positive (N/H) will only be eligible for registration as Geldings or Non-breeding mares. "

As far as the filly, I have to agree with War Admiral. QH's aren't generally thin racks of skin and bone, it's not news when you find one with big shoulders and hips.

Spend any amount of time checking out foundation sires, you will see they all have that classic Bulldog look. King, Wimpy, Leo, etc...

The mare is slightly mismatched but take into account her age...she's 2. Did your horse look like he did the rest of his life when he was 2 years old? Chances are probably not. She still has some growing to do where she will lose the 'coltish' face and gain a thicker neck.

[sidepasser]

Well danged, one topic I actually know a bunch about - lol...first off, let me say that it isn't true that all halter horses just stand around and do nothing but look beefy and brawny..many also ride once the show career is over. Not as many these days as before..but I ride a halter bred mare and she is a sweetie..she jumps too. I will see how she conditions but she wasn't jumped until age 6, no issues there, and only trail ridden and light arena work..no navicular and actually has better hooves than the TB I have. So we'll see.

Steroids - don't really need them..these horses are bred this way, they come out looking like a brick outhouse. They get conditioned in many ways, hotwalkers - longeing - ponying - etc. They are fed top quality hay and grain, and some yes, are overfed, but most are fed pretty normally with supplements, etc. (some will do that though in any discipline). Their necks are sweated to keep them thinner and they are bred to have big gaskins, forearms, butts and chests. Some do look odd, grotesque even but then again I also think that of the "muscle bound" men/woman that are in competitions..so each to his/her own in that regard.

In any breed one sees fads come and go and the overly beefy horse may go the way of the dinosaur and things may swing back to a more performance bred halter horse..I've been around them for over 30 years and have seen the penduleum (sp) swing back and forth.

But the halter bred horse can be ridden and actually this mare has a jog to die for - now to convince her that striding out is "ok"..and that she can do a hand gallop instead of just a lope..(she does not trope thank heavens as that is a bugger to fix)..she just lopes along and now must learn to pick the pace up a bit as she was a western horse first.

In many breeds there are horses that are extreme in one direction or another..I prefer to stay in the middle, have a nice looking horse that also rides.

[Auventera Two]

HYPP doesn't cause muscles, it is a disease that paralyzes them. Impressive is the sire who is influential in not only big beefy halter horses, but HYPP as well.

I believe that starting in 07 AQHA will no longer register horses that carry the gene.

"1. Rule 227 will be amended making foals of the calendar year 2006 & after ineligible for registration if they are descendants of the stallion Impressive, AQHA #0767246 & found to by HYPP Positive (H/H).

2. Additionally, Rule 227 will be amended to provide that foals of 2010 & later that are found to be HYPP positive (N/H) will only be eligible for registration as Geldings or Non-breeding mares. "

As far as the filly, I have to agree with War Admiral. QH's aren't generally thin racks of skin and bone, it's not news when you find one with big shoulders and hips.

Spend any amount of time checking out foundation sires, you will see they all have that classic Bulldog look. King, Wimpy, Leo, etc...

The mare is slightly mismatched but take into account her age...she's 2. Did your horse look like he did the rest of his life when he was 2 years old? Chances are probably not. She still has some growing to do where she will lose the 'coltish' face and gain a thicker neck.

Great post - I agree with you. And good point the horse is only 2. QHs aren't exempt from being un-finished and under-developed at 2. She is even out more as she ages. No horse looks complete and perfect at 2.