someone explain to me what's going on with this horse

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egontoast

Banned

Join Date: Jul. 19, 2001

Posts: 8542
#201

Dec. 14, 2006, 05:49 PM

broodmare from Sir Plumber's Butt chip's site

http://www.bertonqh.com/shanes_dam.jpg
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hitchinmygetalong

Schoolmaster

Join Date: Sep. 24, 2001

Posts: 7472

Location: Lexington, Kentucky
#202

Dec. 14, 2006, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by Coup De Des View Post

baby making machines....
Real nice..
www.ellisquarterhorses.com/sallynew2006.htm

Oh my. Click on the third thumbnail from the left and look at that picture enlarged. How can anyone say that is "normal"?

Now, before we get sidetracked with these mares, I would like to ask a question of the QH folk out there.

Is anything being done at the AQHA to address the problems that seem to be concentrated in the "show" halter horse lines? I know they are identifying HYPP carriers, but how about adjusting the judging standards to place more emphasis on correct conformation vs. muscle mass?

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton
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YoungFilly

Grand Prix

Join Date: Mar. 11, 2003

Posts: 3131
#203

Dec. 14, 2006, 06:08 PM

That Perfect Clu has aweful conformation! I'm sorry, expecially because we don't know this breeder, and she doesn't know we are looking at this pictures, but PLEASE. This is disturbing to say the least! What the heck are these people thinking? That kind of muscling is disgusting.

I'm sorry, I never get this mad, but please, that is just wrong.
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A. P.

Grand Prix

Join Date: Aug. 18, 2004

Posts: 2648

Location: Virginia
#204

Dec. 14, 2006, 06:17 PM

This horse kinda reminds me...

... of Belgium Blue cattle:
[FONT=Arial]http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...e=figure&id=F2[/FONT]
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sidepasser

Advanced

Join Date: Feb. 11, 2004

Posts: 2109

Location: Ga
#205

Dec. 14, 2006, 06:33 PM

Have no clue whether the AQHA is addressing the conformational issues in halter horses except that I know that if the horse can't trot out, it likely won't pin no matter how big it's muscles are. I've seen judges give barely a nod to those types and go on to pin horses that do move out at the trot.

We all tend to agree that the horse should be bred to do a job, any type of job is better than no job. Otherwise the horse just goes south. Unless another halter breeder wants the horse.

I too question whether the pendulum will swing back in favor of the less heavily muscled QHs, I believe it will. If you take a look at the pic of the IDEAL QH, it is proportionate in muscling, good conformation, and suitability.

But people must stop buying babies from breeders who turn out stock that are known to become lame/crippled etc. As long as people are sucked in by "pretty pics" without a history of usability in the offspring, then the less than "reputable" breeders are allowed to continue.

I like Qhs, I like 'em all but sure do miss the old style using types and am glad to be informed via this group that there are breeders out there still producing them within the AQHA. I think that every breed evolves and it causes longing and sadness to those who were brought up with one type to see the breed evolving to many or different types. Think Halflingers..I think they are the cutest things with hooves for small draft types, but now I see there are two types..the old style drafty type and the taller, leggier "new" type. Is that good for the breed? I can't say. Is having a QH that is 7/8ths TB good for the QH breed - again, time will tell. Morgans are the same, I remember them being stout little horses about 14 hands but have seen them get larger and leggier over time and some are above 15 hands.

Just a question, your Breed - what ever it may be - have you seen such changes? Where you grew up with "the breed" being so and so and now there may be little to no resemblance or various lines within the breed? If so, does it bother you a bit or rather do you feel a loss over what you used to see/ride and find it harder to find those types?

I am truly wondering, because I started out with QHs in 1970..and have watched the breed evolve into many distinct types within the breed, and the original type (small, stocky workhorse) is getting mighty hard to find (if you CAN find them) - I think they are more prevalent out west or in the midwest?

I've heard that even the TBs no longer are the same as they once were in the 50's and 60's (smaller bone, more fragile) but I don't know if that is true because I did not grow up with them. I do know the arabs have consistently gotten taller..my goodness you can now find them at 15.2 up to 16 hands..and I remember them as being smallish horses.

Guess I'm getting old - but my kids rode Qhs and showed hunters in the open shows, dressage, x-c and yep, western pleasure all on the same horses. I got so danged tired of hauling the twins every weekend, but I did it, because I knew where my girls were..lol..but seems that those "do it all" types are getting more scarce.

Is this true or am I just an old lady who hasn't kept up very well?

BTW - this has been a very interesting discussion and though there were disagreements, I applaud everyone for not allowing it to disintegrate into a trainwreck. I am learning some new things (for one - I CANNOT afford a 10,000 stud fee, but it is nice to look) and two, it is interesting to get the "english" point of view on some very western horses.

I posted on the eventing forum about my Qh mare - since so many of you ride english/dressage/jumping - I asked about advice on how to tell if my QH (on trial) has the potential for english events. I got her on trial due to her very quiet disposition. If you have time, would you go over and give me some advice on what to look for as far as retraining from western to english (contact, trotting out instead of jogging). I would sincerely appreciate it, though I love the western horses, I am more comfortable riding english and this mare is more suited to me disposition wise than the Tbs have been. Getting old sucks..

Thanks,
Sidepasser
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cookie-monster

Working Hunter

Join Date: Mar. 4, 2004

Posts: 336
#206

Dec. 14, 2006, 06:33 PM

Oh my. I hope that is a good natured bull, cause he scares the crap out of me just seeing him in a picture!!

I don't think the mare's muscling is disgusting, but I wouldn't want it in my riding horses. What is scary about the mare is from her knees down.
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YoungFilly

Grand Prix

Join Date: Mar. 11, 2003

Posts: 3131
#207

Dec. 14, 2006, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by egontoast View Post

broodmare from Sir Plumber's Butt chip's site

http://www.bertonqh.com/shanes_dam.jpg

Honestly, this one is so bad I just don't have any words to say.
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Coup De Des

Banned

Join Date: Feb. 16, 2006

Posts: 2712

Location: Australia
Original Poster
#208

Dec. 14, 2006, 06:58 PM

IT IS NOT THE MUSCLES I AM POINTING OUT... IT IS THE TERRIBLE OVERALL CONFORMATION THAT IS BEING PROMOTED AND TOTED AS PRIME BREEDING MATERIAL!!

I wouldn't breed a dog with wonky legs, let along a poor freakin horse.

Last edited by Coup De Des; Dec. 14, 2006, 09:11 PM. Reason: SPELLING NAZI
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Jumpingfool

Training Level

Join Date: Jun. 15, 2006

Posts: 62
#209

Dec. 14, 2006, 08:27 PM

I can't take it anymore, Coup...

It's spelled conformation!! Geesh! If you're gonna bitch about it at least spell it right!
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hitchinmygetalong

Schoolmaster

Join Date: Sep. 24, 2001

Posts: 7472

Location: Lexington, Kentucky
#210

Dec. 14, 2006, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by sidepasser View Post

Just a question, your Breed - what ever it may be - have you seen such changes? Where you grew up with "the breed" being so and so and now there may be little to no resemblance or various lines within the breed? If so, does it bother you a bit or rather do you feel a loss over what you used to see/ride and find it harder to find those types?

I'm a Morgan person. Saw my first Morgan around '67 and fell in love instantly. Strong, typey, Government-bred mare. This was during or just after the AMHA came down hard on overly-long feet and gingering and pretty much banned them both.

Since then, I've watched the breed split in two. There have been a couple of well-publicized scandals involving Saddlebreds in the breeding shed, but we still see horses that are certainly more Saddlebred than Morgan pinned World Champion and now they sell the cover of the magazine to the highest bidder. The magazine is nothing but advertising. Sure, it's fatter than it used to be (it used to be the size of the Chronicle) but that's because they have so much advertising, much of it from the "top breeders" and "top trainers" showcasing their "Morgans."

BUT

Although they don't get the headlines, the old-type bloodlines are alive and well on small farms all over the country. They may not have the big ads but they are there. You just need to know where to look. I have great faith that the lines will live on.

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton
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caffeinated

Schoolmaster

Join Date: Oct. 8, 2002

Posts: 12410

Location: Mid Atlantic
#211

Dec. 15, 2006, 09:36 AM

So you don't see *anything* wrong in this picture? Nothing that you would change? Nothing that could be a problem for a horse's soundness and maybe shouldn't be passed on?

http://www.aqhathepackage.com/galler...onShugart3.jpg

Not seeing anything that might, oh, require special shoeing in order to keep a horse sound?

http://www.aqhathepackage.com/gallery/d/123-2/Zita6.jpg

He's got a lovely face- and many of the pictures are very pretty, but it would be awfully hard for me to justify breeding such an animal.

"smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

My CANTER blog.
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MistyBlue

Schoolmaster

Join Date: Feb. 6, 2003

Posts: 25632

Location: NorthEast
#212

Dec. 15, 2006, 09:41 AM

That stallion is handsome...but those legs. That's not a trait I'd want to pass along. Those little dainty legs and those straight up and down pasterns aren't correct for an AQHA's conformation. Judges are pinning pasterns and straight as a pole hind legs like that as champs?
The corrective shoeing doesn't surprise me one bit...that's a definite conformation 'don't' for soundness.

You jump in the saddle,
Hold onto the bridle!
Jump in the line!
...Belefonte
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Drvmb1ggl3

Schoolmaster

Join Date: Mar. 10, 2006

Posts: 5168
#213

Dec. 15, 2006, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by caffeinated View Post

So you don't see *anything* wrong in this picture? Nothing that you would change? Nothing that could be a problem for a horse's soundness and maybe shouldn't be passed on?

http://www.aqhathepackage.com/galler...onShugart3.jpg

Not seeing anything that might, oh, require special shoeing in order to keep a horse sound?

http://www.aqhathepackage.com/gallery/d/123-2/Zita6.jpg

He's got a lovely face- and many of the pictures are very pretty, but it would be awfully hard for me to justify breeding such an animal.

Are legs like that really desireable in QHs?
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caffeinated

Schoolmaster

Join Date: Oct. 8, 2002

Posts: 12410

Location: Mid Atlantic
#214

Dec. 15, 2006, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by Two Simple

That's a HORRIBLE picture they put up on their site. I think the horse is foundering. That's probably the only photo they had of her to put up. People do stupid crap all the time.

Well she was "very navicular" with a "torn cervix" when turned out with a stallion to be bred. So all around, great candidate for passing on positive soundness traits.

I need to get off this thread. It's sucking at my will to live.

"smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

My CANTER blog.
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hitchinmygetalong

Schoolmaster

Join Date: Sep. 24, 2001

Posts: 7472

Location: Lexington, Kentucky
#215

Dec. 15, 2006, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by Drvmb1ggl3 View Post

Are legs like that really desireable in QHs?

Excellent question. Could someone please enlighten us?

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton
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caffeinated

Schoolmaster

Join Date: Oct. 8, 2002

Posts: 12410

Location: Mid Atlantic
#216

Dec. 15, 2006, 10:38 AM

I might be crazy* but I really don't think different trimming would fix all the leg issues I see going on there.

*actually, I KNOW I'm crazy, but that's a whole other thread.

"smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

My CANTER blog.
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hitchinmygetalong

Schoolmaster

Join Date: Sep. 24, 2001

Posts: 7472

Location: Lexington, Kentucky
#217

Dec. 15, 2006, 10:49 AM

Two Simple, I've been hunting up pics of halter horses on the Internet, and those straight pasterns and post-leg hind ends seem to be the predominant trend. They aren't some freak anomaly.

I know you are standing up for your breed, and that's admirable. But there is definitely something not right when these horses are pinned - put them in a line up in front of a group of "C" Pony Club kids and they would nail them every time. It's just bad conformation. It is bad conformation whether it is a Quarter Horse, a Percheron, a Shetland Pony... Well, you get the idea.

Upright pasterns and straight angles = bad conformation.

Sorry, but that's the truth.

"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton
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lilblackhorse

Schoolmaster

Join Date: Feb. 20, 2001

Posts: 6413

Location: PNW
#218

Dec. 15, 2006, 01:08 PM

i have posted here for years, and can I just say thanks that we now have the ignore function?

Two Simple? You are annoying as all hell. People are asking basic questions---like why would you think that that stallion with little tiny hooves and legs as straight as tree trunks would be acceptable for long term function and breeding. Yet you bitch and call people names. Seems to me that you are open to all opinions that agree with yours.

Don't bother responding, see paragraph one.*G*

Ellipses users clique ...
TGFPT,HYOOTGP
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mp

Schoolmaster

Join Date: Sep. 18, 2003

Posts: 5133
#219

Dec. 15, 2006, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by hitchinmygetalong View Post

Upright pasterns and straight angles = bad conformation.

Sorry, but that's the truth.

It's also true that 1300 lb horses on itty bitty feet and hind legs that look like turkey drumsticks are more the norm than the exception in QH halter. Not just in pictures. It's what you'll see in the ring, too.

But ... some people like to argue, hitch. About anything. Just FYI ...

__________________________
"... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
the best day in ten years,
you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."
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tbtrailrider

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Join Date: Oct. 8, 2004

Posts: 1764

Location: B.F.E
#220

Dec. 15, 2006, 02:20 PM

HYPP and proud of it...

http://www.kidsclassicstyle.com/

From the website...
KIDS CLASSIC STYLE

1996 AQHA Buckskin Stallion
16.3 Hands - 1800 lbs - HYPP N/H

Sire: Kid Clu
Dam: Tootsy Rolls Redford

TWO TIME AQHA WORLD CHAMPION STALLION

SIRE OF 25 WORLD & RESERVE WORLD CHAMPIONS IN 2005

MULTIPLE CONGRESS CHAMPION SIRE

2006 Stallion Fee $3,500

Multiple Mare Discount

Ask about our HYPP Guarantee!

about HYPP

http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/service/horse/hypp.html
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