Need advice on horse neglect (I rode him today(p16)

[King's Ransom]

You are probably right to be concerned. Why don't you call a rescue and ask if it would be okay to throw a few flakes over the fence? I bet you could call Lori at Sunkissed Acres -- or send her a PM if her number isn't somewhere on that thread about her barn.

[Appassionato]

Having only lurked on this thread, I thought I'd share my two cents. One, if you throw hay, and there's hay on the ground when an inspector comes, water, etc., they might think the horse has had that the whole time. Just a thought. Two, it may help if bird4416 calls as well. The more people calling, the more something may get done.

Jingling that the horse gets the care it needs, or passes soon (strange as that may sound).

[bird4416]

One, if you throw hay, and there's hay on the ground when an inspector comes, water, etc., they might think the horse has had that the whole time. Just a thought. Two, it may help if bird4416 calls as well. The more people calling, the more something may get done.

That's another thing I was worried about if I throw hay. I called the Dept of Ag on Monday. I told them I knew someone who would take the horse and they took my name and number but I haven't heard back from them yet. I thought I would call again on Thursday to see if anything had been done. They won't usually tell you though but I do plan on bugging them.

[King's Ransom]

How about calling the newspaper if the horse looks as bad as you say? Maybe they will do a story on how hard it is to get help for a starving animal?

I just hate the idea of doing NOTHING while the authorities do NOTHING and the poor horse is starving. I know that when I was a lowly newspaper reporter, I would have jumped all over that story. Photos, phone calls, the whole bit. But then, I really never did care who got their feathers ruffled. Thankfully, I became the managing editor of that newspaper and so I REALLY did not care who got their feathers ruffled.

[Wendy123]

Not necessarily. I bought a horse from a woman once who had two - she "fed" them both by throwing out a flake of hay and pouring some grain in a bucket. The dominant horse was fat. The one I bought was a body score of 2.

That's logical but if in the summer the other one is putting weight on sounds contrary. I personally would just drop by with neighborly cookies and be honest. I see your horse who is fat and beautiful has dropped a lot of weight suddenly. Is everything OK?

Is the vet or farrier used known to you? Or a mutual friend or neighbor who might know? Maybe they can help?

[baylady7]

My horse dropped weight last winter- he is 19- and after $300 in vet bills (blood tests) we determined he was anemic (he is now on Red Cell) and also had maldigestion/malabsorbtion whereas an enzyme level was low- very typical for older horses (he is now on Digest Aid). Most folks may balk at spending that much on tests, so there may be problems they will never see as well compounding the issue.

[archieflies]

I bet the people would accept an offer to give up the horse or buy him cheap- they are a bsuiness that thrives on caring for animals. If animal control is out there too many times, it will be noticed by clients. Also, if horses have to be seized, it makes the news. How many people are gonna drop old Ralph and Blackie to be kenneled over the holidays at a place that just got in the paper for animal neglect.

Be sure and mention that to them. Or, you can be sly and drop by one day and say, "Hi, I'm your neighbor. I wouldn't be nosy normally, but I noticed the animal control truck in your driveway the other day, and then the ag people. Is there a problem with the dogs? Something I cna help with? Oh, its the horses you say? I've seen those horses, but I just assumed they weren't yours, since you seem to take such good care of the dogs. I figured someone else was just keeping their horses here. I sure hope none of your clients are scared off by seeing that animal control truck. That could be horrible for business!!! Well, if you need any help wiht the horses, I do know someone that's GREAT at getting the skinny ones well again! Call me if you're interested! Bye!" I bet they cave before you can even turn to walk away!



You just have to put it in a way that they see it as their best interest!

[bird4416]

Archieflies, I'm also concerned about the dogs in their care. If they can't take care of a horse that is in full view of their clientelle, what are they doing or not doing for the dogs that are keep inside a building out of the public view?

[archieflies]

Archieflies, I'm also concerned about the dogs in their care. If they can't take care of a horse that is in full view of their clientelle, what are they doing or not doing for the dogs that are keep inside a building out of the public view?

It really sounds more like an issue of not having a clue about horses and not knowing how to handle a hard-keeper. I wouldn't automatically assume the dogs are in danger- they may know much more about caring for dogs than horses. Most people do!

[bird4416]

Well, the saga continues. I just found out from a good friend that the police were there today. I don't know any more details but she said it was because of the horses. She is trying to find out more info. She also told me that lots of people have talked to her vet and he has been telling them to report to the Dept. of Ag. Sounds like several people have reported this to the D of A so I've got my fingers crossed that something will be done soon. I don't think it would be a good idea to go over there now. They might think I was the one that sicced the cops on them.

[Appassionato]

Well, the saga continues. I just found out from a good friend that the police were there today. I don't know any more details but she said it was because of the horses. She is trying to find out more info. She also told me that lots of people have talked to her vet and he has been telling them to report to the Dept. of Ag. Sounds like several people have reported this to the D of A so I've got my fingers crossed that something will be done soon. I don't think it would be a good idea to go over there now. They might think I was the one that sicced the cops on them.

I don't blame you for not wanting to go over there at this point.

This brings up a point. Aren't the vets required to report abuse/neglect? Is this state by state?

[summerhorse]

Sadly I don't think anyone is required to report abuse or neglect of animals.

[glitterless]

I know of people like this. They love animals. They're usually really into dogs or something like these people, so they get a couple of horses..maybe they were given to them and they had the room so they took them.. maybe they just always wanted a couple of horses. Unfortunately they don't know enough to keep the horses healthy. I'm not condoing this neglect, but I would hate to see these people treated a little too harshly by authorities. They could end up losing their business.

We have an older mare that has been ill on and off for a couple of years. During the summer she gets really bad.. definitely not with her hip bones protruding, but as a horse person, I know she's too thin and want to see more weight on her. It would be SO easy for a passing motorist to glance at her and think she looks unhealthy, even though she's fed well and under a vet's care. Yes, I would be grateful if a kindhearted person stopped by to let me know there was a problem with one of my animals, but if a person went to the press or the authorities and wanted legal action taken, I would be really upset.

Even though someone else has already involved the police, you could always go over and introduce yourself and talk horses. Find out what they know, what they're willing to do, and if they want to learn. If they're really rude to you, don't seem to care about the horses, or whatever, by all means, do what you have to do to help the horse.

I just wanted to add that I don't think feeding the horse yourself is a good idea. Imagine if he colicked or developed laminitis? And quite often an older horse can have free choice hay and STILL do poorly if his teeth are bad, he hasn't been dewormed, or has other health issues.

[summerhorse]

I know of people like this. They love animals. They're usually really into dogs or something like these people, so they get a couple of horses..maybe they were given to them and they had the room so they took them.. maybe they just always wanted a couple of horses. Unfortunately they don't know enough to keep the horses healthy. I'm not condoing this neglect, but I would hate to see these people treated a little too harshly by authorities. They could end up losing their business.

We have an older mare that has been ill on and off for a couple of years. During the summer she gets really bad.. definitely not with her hip bones protruding, but as a horse person, I know she's too thin and want to see more weight on her. It would be SO easy for a passing motorist to glance at her and think she looks unhealthy, even though she's fed well and under a vet's care. Yes, I would be grateful if a kindhearted person stopped by to let me know there was a problem with one of my animals, but if a person went to the press or the authorities and wanted legal action taken, I would be really upset.

Even though someone else has already involved the police, you could always go over and introduce yourself and talk horses. Find out what they know, what they're willing to do, and if they want to learn. If they're really rude to you, don't seem to care about the horses, or whatever, by all means, do what you have to do to help the horse.

I just wanted to add that I don't think feeding the horse yourself is a good idea. Imagine if he colicked or developed laminitis? And quite often an older horse can have free choice hay and STILL do poorly if his teeth are bad, he hasn't been dewormed, or has other health issues.

Feeding the horse is not a good idea because legally the law doesn't care WHO is feeding the horse, just that the horse gets fed. So you could prolong the horse actually getting seized. And if the horse has a medical problem you might accidently make it worse. The only way I'd feed him would be if after all this they did nothing. Then just go offer to buy or borrow thehorse, say you (or someone you know) needs a pasture ornament and would they sell/give it whatever.

I had a pony that suddenly went from round to ribby, she had diarrhea, she wouldn't eat, she looked scruffy. BUT I notified the owner (she was leased) and we had the vet out, did her teeth again, ran every blood work possible, checked her from head to toe, wormed her again with different wormers, and NOTHING showed up. She was perfectly normal. And still losing weight and having diarrhea! I switched her to senior feed and some (forget the name probiotic) for awhile) and all the hay she could waste and gradually she got better and gained her weight back and looked really nice when they took her back (thank god!) SOMETHING was causing her to not absorb the nutrients in her food, they were just moving on through the body without being picked up. The senior feed would break down fast enough that she was able to get enough out of it. Of course she was also eating the same amount as my HORSE. all 10 hands of her. What she really needed (and got) was to be out on a grassy place where she could be eating all the time (no grass on the sand dunes!). Probably she is going to be a Cushings horse even though it isn't showing up now, it probably will down the road. Once she got out on grass she went back to being the roly poly thing she was. Yes I did warn them she didn't need to get VERY roly poly because of her feet.

At any rate, long story short, if AC had come by I could have immediately directed them to my vet who would have assured them that everything that could be done was being done. And that it was done immediately not 6 mos. or a year after the horse turned to bones.

[CHorseFarm]

ARGH! This is so frustrating. I, too, wanna know what the cops were doing there. My vet has apparently received lots of calls from concerned customers about the horse, too.
I agree with Bird, may not be to safe to venture over there now with a plate of cookies...since they're apparently getting a lot of "action" from authorities. I'd like to see more "action" in the removal of the horse by the State -preferably today.

[MoonBallad]

ARGH! This is so frustrating. I, too, wanna know what the cops were doing there. My vet has apparently received lots of calls from concerned customers about the horse, too.
I agree with Bird, may not be to safe to venture over there now with a plate of cookies...since they're apparently getting a lot of "action" from authorities. I'd like to see more "action" in the removal of the horse by the State -preferably today.

From what you say in this post it sounds to me as if they are new to horses and just don't know how to care for them properly. Has anyone involved directly in this situation thought to help educate them rather than prosecute???

If he's graining 2x a day with what looks like dog kibble he's feeding pellets. Why hasn't this vet or any of you other horse people explained the need for hay in their diet. As hard as it may be for some of you to believe it is very possible that they really don't know what they're supposed to be feeding and think they're doing it right.

People tend to be very quick to judge without knowing ALL of the facts and that can really hurt the lives of the others involved. IF they are truely neglecting their horses WITH the knowledge of what the horses needs are then by all means prosecute away but if you don't know all the facts then you should be very careful before you make accusations.

From what I have read no one has gone to speak with the owners to see if they in the dark about the dietary needs of these horses. Again why hasn't this vet that's been mentioned done this???

I'm not defending anyone here if they are indeed aware of their needs and not providing them BUT if they are new and have good intentions this story could have a very sad ending. Think of this; these people may actually love these horses, sounds to me that they are animal people since even their business is animal related, they may think they're doing what they're supposed to be doing - especially if even the vet has never told them any differently - and now they have the police at their home/business and animal control trucks in their driveway. Of course that's going to hurt if not destroy their business which they depend on to live and support their family. That does NOT look good for any animal related business even if they are innocent. Look at the way you people are already questioning their dog care. I would love to see a picture of this horse. From the description they may not see it as urgent if they are really not familiar with horse care. You wrote that his ribs are showing but no hip bones protrudung there are many degrees of "ribs showing" and usually when they're getting really thin their hips begin to stick out. They might think this is normal for this particular horse especially if their other horse is doing fine. I'm sorry but it really sounds more to me like lack of knowledge than deliberate neglect and if that's the case then everyone involved is guilty of not trying to help these people learn and to do what they need to.
Depending on who the authorities are and how they handle this this could end in a real nightmare for those people in may ways. They could lose their horses, their business, their home and their reputations in the community if they are accused of neglect and it turns out that they simply didn't know what they were supposed to be doing.
I would never in a million years defend anyoe who is deliberately neglecting or abusing an animal BUT it sounds like no one - not even their vet for god's sake - has take the time to help these people learn about horse care. It just doesn't sound to me as if they are deliberatly neglecting him.

PS - has anyone checked to see if this horse might have ulcers or need his teeth done? There could also be another reason he is so thin if the other horse is doing ok on the same feedings.

[bird4416]

Moonballad, CHorse did go by and she talked to an employee who informed her that the owners didn't care about the horses at all (owners were not there at the time). He was trying to do the best he could but knows nothing about horses. CHorse told him they needed hay. The horses live in paddocks in front of the business/home and the paddocks have never been picked. They are literally full of manure and the fences are in disrepair. The thinnest horse has all ribs sticking out and when viewed from behind looks like a tent; both hips bones poking out and his spine poking up with the skin dipped in between. The other horse dosen't look emaciated but he is not in very good shape either. He is ribby and his coat is rough and dull. I rode my horse down beside their paddock and the two horses were so listless they didn't even acknowlege his presence. When I have ridden by in the summer, they came up to the fence and seemed interested in the horse going by. They were alert and perky. I will try to take pictures and post them. I probably should go over and try to talk to them but a little voice in my head keeps telling me not to. I feel I should trust my instincts. Hopefully something will happen soon to help this situation for the horses.

[bird4416]

Here are pictures that I took today of the horse.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...6/IMG_0158.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...6/IMG_0162.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...6/IMG_0161.jpg

[summerhorse]

Those are pathetic. There is no reason this horse should not have been seized already. He's like a 0 on the scale of 1-5. Is there a vet willing to call the authorities and tell them flat out that the horse will be dead soon if it does not get help?

[Appassionato]

Those are pathetic. There is no reason this horse should not have been seized already. He's like a 0 on the scale of 1-5. Is there a vet willing to call the authorities and tell them flat out that the horse will be dead soon if it does not get help?

Agreed with summerhorse. I hope you guys can help the horse.