Frustrated, vent and WWYD?

[City Ponies]

I have been at my boarding barn for approx 5 months, 2 with Hope and 3 with Reno. Since I've had Reno there I took him from being just backed and barely ridden to competing at his second show last weekend where we took home ribbons in every class. Now at this boarding barn is a nice local lesson trainer. She means well and is overall a nice person. Recently with Reno's "success" I've got the itch to start my training business back up that I put aside to go back to school. I've spoken with the BO and BM, both very encouraging and say "Go for it! It's just going to bring in more boarders and that's great for us". BO also tells me there are a few horses that need to be sold and I'm free to work and show them if I want to help out for a few bucks off my board.

The other day I approach Lesson Trainer, LT, and ask if she is using one of the barn's horses in a lesson that day. She gets very defensive, saying it's her horse and I need to ask her permission to ride and take it to a show. OK, I let her get her vent out and calmly explain that the BO offered to me. She's steps back and says "Well I just wish you would have asked me, it's just like if I were to come up to you and say I'm (LT) showing Reno." In the back of my mind I'm thinking, No it's not like that, but whatever. And go about my business.

BM has a new 2 yr old project she's having problems with so I've been giving her advice and offered to ride it for her to give her some outside perspective. BM doesn't let anyone else ride this horse, so it tells me she has confindence in my abilities. Before I ever do, LT puts her two sense in, "Don't you dare let her ride that horse, you should never put draw-reins on a horse, it's un-natural". Well I had mentioned draw-reins from watching BM ride but wanted to see how the horse rode without them first. But again.. whatever and went about my business. BM is still eager to have me work with her filly.

Today was the final straw. LT, says to BM that all she sees me is as another boarder, not a trainer. I don't know what I'm doing, and she won't reccommend me to her clients that have problem horses b/c she doesn't believe in my training theories and doesn't know "how I ride"? I'm just really aghast at this, seeing as she watched me ride Reno at the show, watched me pin well and this on a 4 yr old with only 60 days training.

I'm really fed up with being treated as just another boarder at this point. I'm trying to help the farm out by bringing in more horses for board b/c they are in financial trouble, as well as get some of the schoolies that aren't used often sold. Yes, I'd like to put a few dollars in my pocket as well, but I enjoy working and seeing results more than anything. I don't want to give lessons, I'm not trying to take her business, if anything she may get more out of it! LT knows very well the arrangement I made with BO and BM but chooses to ignore it that she knows more than I do. I feel like I either need to fax her my resume and video submission of me riding, or move to another farm. I don't want to leave, but I can't make a business with the talking behind my back to other boarders and potential customers. Talking to her directly has seemed useless, my one attempt was met with "I don't know how you will really have any business here".

WWYD.. and thanks for listening!

[laskiblue]

It sounds like she feels very threatened by you. Maybe a good approach would be for a meeting among BO, BM, LT, and you to clarify what's going on. If both you and LT are going to be sharing some of the barn's horses in your training activities, some sort of written schedule might be appropriate. Good luck!

[LittleblackMorgan]

I feel your pain. My BO tells me a "friend" of mine knocks every single thing I do or say. I'm pretty damn tired of it, dont want to hear and I am looking for a new barn. I swear, women can be sooo catty...

Honestly, this is going to get worse before it gets better. I think you ought to go to another place. Bad things travel sooo fast-founded or not. Truth and good req's simply dont move like nasty gossip!!!

[City Ponies]

Leaving is a very viable option. I can lease a 4 stall barn with ring and turnout for relatively cheap if I can get at least one other paying customer on board with me. I've thought about just sticking to outside horses right now. The show circuit doesn't know of her, so she's not a threat to my "new" social scene in that respect, just the boarders and lesson clients. I can still market to people who don't know either of us, which is pretty much everyone since I'm still new to the area, but I do enjoy helping the people I'm around on a daily basis.

She got real testy when I told her I might be interested in one of the barn's sale/lesson horses to buy as a project. None to happy on that aspect, but hey, shouldn't told me the horse was for sale and I can see a ton of potential in it.

[findeight]

I had eloquent reply done and cyberspace ate it.

I'll just say this, OP, you kind of come off as walking in and taking over as trainer while she has been there and has been/is getting paid.

You may be better, more talented, a better rider, more intelligent, taller, skinnier and done better at that little show but you are projecting a bit of attitude here as if you are expecting her to just give way to you because you say you are better.

Would have been nice if either the BO/BM had told her you were taking over that horse insead of you just showing up and telling her the BO/BM said you could use it. She may have needed that one for lessons she gets paid for and gotten screwed when you showed up and took it over.

Sorry, not what you wanted to hear but I am reading that there is no formal arrangement, you are NOT getting paid (is that right?) and you seem to resent somebody depending on making that lesson money objecting to your perceived taking over. Does not matter if you are or not, if that is what it looks and seems like you are doing, that's the way you come off.

That may not be it but that is what it comes off as. Least to me after 40+ years in boarding barns watching situations exactly like what you seem to be describing. TRY to see it for a few minutes from LTs point of view.

And keep the peace around that barn or it gets really, really ugly.

[shanky]

What is the reasoning behind considering draw reins for a two year old? (I am not one of those anti-gadget fanatics, just not sure how a two year old would benefit?)

[GoForAGallop]

I'm going to have to agree with findeight. Even from this one little post, where you're trying to portray yourself in a good light, you're coming off as kind of pushy. Tone it down a little bit, at the barn, and things may get on a little better. Perhaps you could casually mention to the trainer that you're not really interested in teaching people, just horses? Wouldn't that be a good compromise?

"Oh, hey, I just wanted to mention that I was watching one of your lessons the other day, and really loved how you explained to Sally how to sit deeper....it really made sense. I just can't teach, I just stick to riding the naughty ponies!"

Even if it's a lie, it'll smooth things over a bit and maybe make her feel a little less threatened. You have to realize that teaching the lessons might be a good chunk of her income, and you're threatening to take that away from her if you start in teaching lots of lessons yourself. But it sounds like you're MOSTLY interested in just working with the horses, and not people....so maybe let her know that.



And also....a two year old in draw reins? Why?!

[Luckydonkey]

How old are you? You come off a bit cocky, and it does seem like you are waltzing right into the barn and trying too hard to be someone too fast. You downplay LT in your scenario from the start by saying she is just a local lesson trainer who means well- that sounds like you really don't have much respect for her or what she is doing, and think she is beneath you.I think you might be getting a bit big for your britches after pinning well (at one show on your own horse), and now are swaggering around like your the John Wayne of horse trainers... The best thing you could probably do would be to sit back, open your eyes and ears, close the mouth for awhile, and just ride. You can't learn if your talking all the time, and there is always something else to learn from other people...

[sdlbredfan]

I agree with LT, draw reins tell me someone is lacking actual training skills and wanting to use a quick fix gadget. (I hate draw reins too, have seen horses ruined because of the dumb humans using them.) Running martingales are fine, German martingales fine, but not draw reins. All they do is teach a horse to overflex, fall on the forehand and it quite often ruins their desire to go forward, and damages minds and muscles sometimes beyond repair.
Jeanie

[dghunter]

I agree with whoever said sitting down with the BO, BM, and LT (and yourself obviously). That seems to be the best solution to get everything figured out. LT may be threatened/feel like you are taking over and is upset about that. I think the best way is to just have a sit down and work out a schedule for any shared horses. Things in writing tend to go better

[gloriginger]

I agree with LT, draw reins tell me someone is lacking actual training skills and wanting to use a quick fix gadget. (I hate draw reins too, have seen horses ruined because of the dumb humans using them.) Running martingales are fine, German martingales fine, but not draw reins. All they do is teach a horse to overflex, fall on the forehand and it quite often ruins their desire to go forward, and damages minds and muscles sometimes beyond repair.
Jeanie

Yeah this, and on a two year old. Yikes.

[shanky]

I'm really fed up with being treated as just another boarder at this point.

Until you have paying clients, you are "just another boarder".

[magnolia73]

If someone came into my office and started doing my work for free, I'd be a little concerned about losing my livelihood. I can see why she might be threatened. I'd sit down with her and the BM and come up with a plan to work together. Maybe offer to take a lesson with her.

And draw reins on a 2yo sounds really off.... honestly, if I had a 2yo and you thought draw reins were close to appropriate, I'd file you as inept. And I am not an anti-draw rein person. But you know, at 2 aren't they just learning the very basics?

[findeight]

One thing OP, and alot of other people need to do is read that old book "How to Win Friends and Influence People"...was that Carnegie?

I AM serious.

You want to get along with new people, telling them how wonderful you are ain't gonna get you very far.

With horse people, running the resume of how wonderful and well known you are on the show circuit and how you are a great rider and trainer and can solve all their problems is going to get them to tell you to STFU. Then go complain to the BM because they already have a trainer and do not care to listen to another boarder telling them what to do.

That whole harrangue about winning some ribbons at that local show to prove how good OP is? What a crock, I have thousands of them over 40 yearsn (I don't even pick them up anymore) and not from locals. I can assure you, I am no better then I was as a horseman because of them, they never taught me a thing. And then there is the fact sometimes when you win you just were less sucky then the rest of them.

One thing that seems to turn veteran COTHers off is bragging on how good you did at some local show to support a claim of expertise...and adding the draw reins on a 2 year old that is already showing is not something I would wave around as justification of how good you may be to many on here.

You want respect as a horseman? EARN IT. respect the horse. Respect OTHER professionals. Respect clients. LEARN every ride from every horse and every lesson from every client. And keep the mouth shut when it comes to self agrandisement.

[City Ponies]

OK I'm going to try to answer everyone but if I miss I'm sorry and just re-ask.

I'm in my mid-20's. And I'm sorry for coming off cocky, I should have explained that I turned pro after my junior years were over with. I was working at a very successful barn in NC as the head "horse" trainer with 2 other lesson trainers and we all got along great. I expressed I had no interest in working with kids, they had no interest on getting on crazy unbrokes, it all worked out for the best. Including keeping some of the schoolies fit. I also usually have my own personal 1-2 sale horses a year. I had to leave due to my interest to go back to college when gas was $4.50 a gallon and we had a severe hay shortage. I'm not new to this just because my horse did well, it just gave me the itch to start it back up. I'm just new to the area.

LT never works with horses, or makes any attempt to keep schoolies sharp. They do occassionally buck and do nasty things which make it difficult for little kids to ride. However, they are generally safe steady eddys, good souls. I don't agree with her lesson program, I personally feel it's unsafe, but have never said anything to anyone at the barn as such. It's her business, not mine.

I was kinda sure this was going to happen re: draw reins. I probably should've explained. 2 yr old has been undersaddle longer than Reno, and has gotten away with quite a bit of 2 yr old antics b/c BM has very little patience. She is coming off a made horse. I suggested draw-reins as a possible solution to be used at the WALK only. Probably should have made that clear. Filly grabs the bit and yanks with all her might. I gave her a couple of solutions to try sans-reins but she is afraid to do them on her own. Wants me up on her to try them out first, but had simply asked what can "I" do, and that was my answer. It was a 30 minute conversation but whatever. This filly has been pushed too far IMHO and should be turned out for the fall/winter at this point, but not my horse I can only advise.

I'm surprised how many people are anti-draw reins though. They are an effective tool if used correctly and only sparingly.. aka don't ride in the more than once a month if you absolutely have too. And I've never had any negative effects that some of you had listed on any of my sale, personal, or training horses.

As far as scheduling lesson horses, I was never trying to take the horse out of lesson program, simply work with her schedule so I could get on it 2x a week to get it further than w/t/c.

I do have one horse coming in Sept 1st for training. And I was going to buy another project for myself. But I'm now considering just chalking it all up and finding 2nd regular job for extra income and just enjoying Reno until I graduate in May. I'm just SOO not a drama person. And I'm already pissed about the talking behind my back, I don't want it to escalate.

[City Ponies]

One thing OP, and alot of other people need to do is read that old book "How to Win Friends and Influence People"...was that Carnegie?

I AM serious.

You want to get along with new people, telling them how wonderful you are ain't gonna get you very far.

With horse people, running the resume of how wonderful and well known you are on the show circuit and how you are a great rider and trainer and can solve all their problems is going to get them to tell you to STFU. Then go complain to the BM because they already have a trainer and do not care to listen to another boarder telling them what to do.

That whole harrangue about winning some ribbons at that local show to prove how good OP is? What a crock, I have thousands of them over 40 yearsn (I don't even pick them up anymore) and not from locals. I can assure you, I am no better then I was as a horseman because of them, they never taught me a thing. And then there is the fact sometimes when you win you just were less sucky then the rest of them.

One thing that seems to turn veteran COTHers off is bragging on how good you did at some local show to support a claim of expertise...and adding the draw reins on a 2 year old that is already showing is not something I would wave around as justification of how good you may be to many on here.

You want respect as a horseman? EARN IT. respect the horse. Respect OTHER professionals. Respect clients. LEARN every ride from every horse and every lesson from every client. And keep the mouth shut when it comes to self agrandisement.

I'm surprised at this. I never meant to make my little local show seem as proof. Just that LT saw me ride and saw how my horse did, and then goes around proclaiming she can't vouch for my riding ability b/c she's never seen me ride. That's all that was about. I really never was trying to prove to ANYONE on here that my ribbons make me legit. Many COTH'rs know me personally and can vouch for my abilities with my horses and my knowledge of what I'm doing. I don't need to prove anything to anyone, personally I don't care what anyone else thinks. I get results with happy and healthy horses when the day is over.

I never flaunt my resume. I allow new customers and potential employees watch me ride my or their horse and let them decide. It has no bearing what my show record is, it's about how I work with your horse. And there are some horses that I have turned away in the past because for one reason or another either it would not work in my program or what the owner was asking of me was just too dangerous to myself or the horse. IE: had someone want me to start a long yearling.. NO THANKS!

And I have been keeping my mouth shut, haven't said a dang work to LT past what my plans were. Haven't said a dang word to any other boarders. I'm venting here because I can, I'm pissed, and wanting some advice to if this arrangement can work or if I should go board elsewhere. That's all.

[JanM]

I don't see this current situation as working out in the long run for anyone concerned. After you graduate you may be relocating, because in today's economic climate that may be a requirement to get a really good job. Why put time and effort into a place where you have very little spare time, and it looks to me as if no one at this barn communicates well, or does things in writing to minimize conflicts and hurt feelings. If you want a training barn I'd go and do that elsewhere, or find another boarding situation if just being a boarder at this barn doesn't work for you after this string of incidents. You need to be comfortable and happy with your situation for you and your animal, if you aren't then change it until you are.

[findeight]

Whether this arrangement works depends on what that arrangement is.

What, exactly IS the arrangement. I'm not clear on who is paying you or if it's free...and if it's free, you are really just functioning as a boarder-not a trainer.

IMO, you will have a little more of an issue with the 2yo part then the draw rein (and, no they are not the root of all evil) part because this is an English and Sport Horse board and we normally don't even back them at 2 and many prefer more traditional training methods on such a young colt.

Anyway, you will need to keep the peace with that LT and work out a way to peacefully share in the BOs horses if she uses them in lessons.

[cyriz's mom]

I think that your success with Reno is working against you with LT...she feels threatened by your success with a green bean.

I third the idea of getting all the parties involved to sit down face-to-face and let her know what the new plan is, ie. you're not looking to take over her up-downers, are going to work with the school horses for sale to improve their marketability and usefulness to HER. Come up with a schedule of when she'll use pony A and when you'll ride him. Really try to show her how it's a team plan, not a her against you situation. Make sure that the BO/BM are fully on board with the plan. Discuss how you can help each other with referrals.

Give it at least a month. If the crap continues or escalates, then you can 1) get your own place or 2) just enjoy Reno, get through your last year of school and then do whatever you want.

It should be a workable situation and a win-win for all involved if you can get her on board.

Good luck!!!

[Cita]

I'm really fed up with being treated as just another boarder at this point.

Sorry, it sounds like you really are "just another boarder," and you're upset because you're not getting the special treatment that you feel you are deserve because of your stellar riding resume (or whatever).

Change your attitude and you might start getting along better with the lesson trainer.

What does "just another boarder" mean, anyway? Are boarders not paying clients worthy of respect? Are you not actually boarding your horses there? How do you expect to be treated? The phrase reeks of entitlement.