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Is Vermont affordable?

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  • Is Vermont affordable?

    So someday I want to move back up north, but I don't think I want to actually go back to Maine. So I thought maybe Vermont, they have Ben and Jerry's there and it seems to have really good opportunities for riding, specifically eventing and trail riding. So the perpetual problem is that no matter what kind of lab technician job I could find, I will never by a highly paid person and would have to live on a lower budget, like $3-3.5K (before taxes) a month for everything. So is a small horse property completely unaffordable for an average person in VT?

  • #2
    I would think it would depend on the part of Vermont. I am sure some of the upper parts would be affordable but you get into snow-up-to-your-bum for most of the winter, and mud-up-to-your-chin in the spring.
    OTTB - Hurricane Denton - Kane - the big dog!
    Tuggy - RIP 9/12/2016 - Wait for me at the bridge
    Foster LolaMaria AKA LolaBean (Boxer)

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    • #3
      Originally posted by AppendixQHLover View Post
      I would think it would depend on the part of Vermont. I am sure some of the upper parts would be affordable but you get into snow-up-to-your-bum for most of the winter, and mud-up-to-your-chin in the spring.

      100% agree! I have family in Vermont the above poster nailed it! I think it could be very affordable but the weather would make it less then ideal for me!
      www.rockhillfarm.net

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      • #4
        I live in Vermont, Chittenden County, to be exact. I would think that anyone living on that would struggle here. To get a property with a home, barn and a few acres would cost in the range of $300,00 and up. Vermont is nice, but it is anything but cheap. At one time in the not too distant past, I think we were rated as one of the top 10 most expensive places to live and in the bottom 10 for wages. Why am I here again?

        I honestly do not know any single people who could afford to buy and maintain a small horse property here who have to work for a living. Those couples that I know that work for a living and have small horse properties are struggling just to survive all the time. This winter is likely to be tough. It has rained all summer and we just barely got first cuttings in.

        If you're interested though, check the real estate properties. I think New Hampshire is more affordable than Vermont, but I could be wrong.
        "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp

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        • #5
          Vermont appears to be a very expensive place to live. See:

          http://www.ded.mo.gov/researchandpla...ving/index.stm

          Look at the third table down. It's in "reverse order" so HI (at 51) is the most expensive. VT is 43. While I'm sure there are some places cheaper than others, likely anything "affordable" is going to be less than desireable.

          G.
          Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
            Vermont appears to be a very expensive place to live. See:

            http://www.ded.mo.gov/researchandpla...ving/index.stm

            Look at the third table down. It's in "reverse order" so HI (at 51) is the most expensive. VT is 43. While I'm sure there are some places cheaper than others, likely anything "affordable" is going to be less than desireable.

            G.
            The cheaper places are always less desireable, no? Sigh.

            A friend of mine lives in Missouri. Bought a 40 acre farm for $20k! But she has to drive 60 miles for groceries, and the local town is half-empty with no businesses except a courthouse and a thrift shop.

            Comment


            • #7
              Except for the property taxes, NH has some incredible deals lately, and me with a crappy job. This place is amazing, and the price, at least around here, is unheard of for what you get.

              http://www.nneren.com/view2.php?id=2739886&ref=q&price=$327,000.00&t=&fc la=1

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              • #8
                Vermont can be pretty pricey, depending on where you live. Taxachusetts and CT have it beat, of course, but New England as a whole is not the cheapest place to live. But there are some great deals to be found in New Hampshire, and even the northeast parts of New York. (And you could get pretty close to VT.)

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                • #9
                  Good luck finding a job in vermont. LOL

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Born and raised VT-er here. I grew up in Orange county (center of the state on the east side). It's a fantastic place to live, great school systems, beautiful countryside, lots of fantastic horsey stuff going on...

                    That being said, I currently live in NY, as there's very little chance I could find a comparable job in VT. If I could, I would definitely be moving back to VT.

                    It might be do-able for you, but don't look to live right outside Burlington/Chittenden county. Windsor county can get pricey around Woodstock as well. However, there are tons of smaller towns in the center of the state with more reasonable prices and, since VT is so small, you could easily commute to Burlington, Montpelier or down to Hanover (Dartmouth-Hitchcock medical lab tech job maybe?).

                    http://www.sethwarren.com/search_horse.php good website for VT/NH horse real estate if you want to take a peak at prices...
                    ILOVERMONT

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                    • #11
                      I have been here in vermont for almost 50 yrs now. WE are one of hte very highest taxed states in the nation. There are no jobs here unless you want to live in Chittenden co. Yoiu can not afford to buy property there though, not on $30,000 or a bit more a yr. I live on much less than that but rent and live on the Candian border or very close to it now, I used to live ON the border. Properties are much cheaper up north but no work.

                      We get many days in the winter that are very cold, as in -20 to -40.Depending on where you live you may not even notice the mud in the spring. We do notice it a lot but live way out in the boonies on dirt roads. IT cost us $2600 last winter just to keep from being cold. We kept the thermostat on 55 too.

                      The schools are very good for the most part though, especially the elementary schools in the north part of the state. Seems to be lots of problems in the lower grades though throughout Chittenden Co. Funny, thats where the money is but the schools are often found to be grades as inadequate.

                      I love it here but struggle every day to come up with things that others take for granted. My animals get taken care of first, thats my choice though. I could have more for myself if I didn't have them. I'd rather have them.

                      Vermont is a wonderful place to live if yoiu can afford to and a struggle for all the rest of us. I too would look over in NY. Just across the border things are much cheaper. Property is a whole lot cheaper from what I see in the papers.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Yeah, I had checked the real estate listings and found that they were quite expensive, but I thought that there must be middle class property owners. But I guess not! My mom had been telling me that VT would be out of my price range, but I didn't believe her. And I'm not actually single, but I never factor my SO's salary into the mix because I would hate to be tied down.

                        Maybe I'll have to stick closer to the mason-dixon line than I wanted to.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I lived in VT for a very long 10 months. 2 months of it the company had to pay to keep me in a hotel room because I couldn't find a place to rent. Forget finding something I could afford I couldn't find something that would allow a well behaved dog at all. Most places were $900 plus utilities for a one bedroom apartment! I ended up finding something cheaper, but the landlord was batshit crazy and I moved in to a farm house someone wanted me to keep an eye on over the winter. The furnace went and all the radiators busted the night before I moved in. Indoor camping anyone? It sucked.

                          I was making around 30k when I lived there in 1999 and was sinking fast. I was not living high off the hog, but couldn't make it. It was pretty. I love Jay Peak, but I will only vacation in VT thank you very much. I also found it very hard to make friends, but that might have just been me. (All the young people my age seemed to have friends they grew up with all their life and weren't eager to include an outsider. I was very lonely while I was there.)

                          Upstate NY would be much more affordable and you still get the seasons without getting -30 weather.

                          Oh, I was living in the "cheap" part of the state in Enosburg Falls and Swanton but still had a hell of a time finding anything to rent in Franklin County. If you can milk cows you might be able to find a job though.
                          "You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars;
                          you have a right to be here." ~ Desiderata by Max Ehrmann

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by emaren View Post
                            Yeah, I had checked the real estate listings and found that they were quite expensive, but I thought that there must be middle class property owners. But I guess not! My mom had been telling me that VT would be out of my price range, but I didn't believe her. And I'm not actually single, but I never factor my SO's salary into the mix because I would hate to be tied down.

                            Maybe I'll have to stick closer to the mason-dixon line than I wanted to.
                            There is a large middle class in Vermont. You look in the schools and most of those kids come from middle class families. There are more poor in certain areas as well as more rich in some. The vast majority is middle class though, Im certain it is. I've been here my entire life and that is what I've seen.

                            If you have another salary in your home I wouldn't worry at all. Many ppl who live here have your income as the entire household income and many have less.
                            And property owners, jeez, Im sure they are more middle class property owners than rich ones. Yes, there are rich, mostly around the ski areas and the city. There are others scattered around the hills who either work from home or don't work anymore. But there are a whole lot of middle class private landowners here for sure. Even though many farms have gone under, the land has still been kept in the family. My neighbor across the road is typical middle class. It cost over $100 a month to be able to get TV out here and they choose not to but they drive a nice car. They have 127 acres of land. IN this are properties are at at least 10 acres and most much more. It is very common to own 80-100 acres here. Not in the suburbs of course but in the rural areas yes.

                            Living here is very doable, if I can stay here anyone can. You may have to drive a bit to get to work if you want to own the kind of property it seems you do. It would be hard to buy near the city on that income but not in the more rural areas. If you were going to have children the better schools are in rural area too from what I've read. I raised four girls on my own here and they had really good schooling. It IS more expensive to live here than many places but it can be done and is very worth the while imo.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                              Vermont appears to be a very expensive place to live. See:

                              http://www.ded.mo.gov/researchandpla...ving/index.stm

                              Look at the third table down. It's in "reverse order" so HI (at 51) is the most expensive. VT is 43. While I'm sure there are some places cheaper than others, likely anything "affordable" is going to be less than desireable.

                              G.
                              I beg your pardon? I live in Oklahoma (Central Oklahoma to be exact), you know, the number 1 "affordable" according to the list (and number 1 least desirable according to your analogy).

                              9 years ago when the housing was booming, we bought this 15 acres with a 2100 sf house, 3 bed, 2 bath, for $160,000. I drive 20~30 minutes to downdown to work. If I wanted to, I could have moved 10 minutes away, and gotten 40 acres for the same price. I make a rather good salary with a generous company (100% dollar to dollar matching to your 401K, up to 15% of my total salary, plus stock bonus, cash bonus, stock options, insurance, free gym, free exercise classes, and whole slewt of things). They are sending me to Vegas for a conference for a week, business class flight. That conference will cost them $2000 and the hotel room is $200/night. And guess what, with this economy, here remains one of the few that still have strong job market going on.

                              Undesirable? I am afraid not.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by PalominoMorgan View Post
                                I lived in VT for a very long 10 months. 2 months of it the company had to pay to keep me in a hotel room because I couldn't find a place to rent. Forget finding something I could afford I couldn't find something that would allow a well behaved dog at all. Most places were $900 plus utilities for a one bedroom apartment! I ended up finding something cheaper, but the landlord was batshit crazy and I moved in to a farm house someone wanted me to keep an eye on over the winter. The furnace went and all the radiators busted the night before I moved in. Indoor camping anyone? It sucked.

                                I was making around 30k when I lived there in 1999 and was sinking fast. I was not living high off the hog, but couldn't make it. It was pretty. I love Jay Peak, but I will only vacation in VT thank you very much. I also found it very hard to make friends, but that might have just been me. (All the young people my age seemed to have friends they grew up with all their life and weren't eager to include an outsider. I was very lonely while I was there.)

                                Upstate NY would be much more affordable and you still get the seasons without getting -30 weather.

                                Oh, I was living in the "cheap" part of the state in Enosburg Falls and Swanton but still had a hell of a time finding anything to rent in Franklin County. If you can milk cows you might be able to find a job though.
                                I live in Enosburg actually and used to have a dairy farm in Jay. My kids went to school in Jay and skied on the MOuntain there. I have always rented since divorcing my ex and leaving the farm. I have 5 dogs, 5 cats, a horse, a donkey, 5 birds and some fish. I pay $650 a month for a nice three bedroom very old post and beam home. Lovely wooden pegs you can see. The whole inside is open with a balcony around the top with the bedrooms. We are on 5 acres. Im plenty happy with it.

                                I have rented 5 other properties appropriate for us and our animals here since 1987 when I left the farm where I"d been since 75. It has sometimes taken me a bit to find a place but I always have. I have a very good reputation for caring for my house and property. I have always gone ahead and fixed things and made repairs without bothering landlords unless it was something that I would have wanted permission to do as in actually changing something structurally. SO is a carpenter. WE just put in a new window in our bedroom this week. NO, I've never had a huge problem here renting at all. There are times where the amount of available rental places are not abundant, and the looking can be tougher. The landlord here, we've been here a yr now, says we've improved this place 110%. And we have. We worked for 435 hours just getting it cleaned and ready to move into. Had to start with brushogging a path to the front door and went on from there. To live in Vermont you must be willing to be a hard worker, not be afraid of hard work. Got to go that extra mile. Unless you're rich of course and then you can just hire ppl to do things for you. Most landlords here know that the health officers and courts do little for the tenant and thus renters for hte most part do a lot themselves but often for lesser rent too. There are some landlords who take tremendous pride in their properties and are right on the ball with repairs too, but these places are also $1500 and up. I do get sick of fixing and remodeling and then having to leave, believe me, but this is all I can do. Was at last place over 10 yrs. You don't stay somewhere that long with a landlord who isn't happpy with you. They've always like me being a tenant but I try hard to please too.

                                Friends, that makes me feel bad. I've always felt we were one of the friendliest most outgoing ppl there are. I hope I haven't been wrong about that. I spent 1995 traveling around the US and meeting all sorts of ppl and I still come away from it thinking we were much friendlier and very welcoming to newcomers. Ah, I hope I haven't just been blinded to the fact that we are not nice ppl all these yrs. Huh. Have to think on this one.

                                Not sure how to take Enosburg being the "cheap" part of the state. I believe the tax rate is higher in Enosburg and Bakersfield, Berkshire than anywhere else in the state. The rents may be cheaper as you have to travel to work. ON the other hand you can afford to own more here than in Chittenden Co too. Guess I like the "cheap" part, have always been in one Franklin Co town or another, from St Albans to MOntgomery. Oops, just living in Jay wasn't. We paid taxes in Orleans co for our Jay property. Half was in Jay and the other half Richford, bordered on Quebec.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by PalominoMorgan View Post

                                  Upstate NY would be much more affordable and you still get the seasons without getting -30 weather.
                                  Up until this past winter that was true Seems like the whole damn winter was 40 below! But I digress...

                                  Much depends upon the definition of "upstate" in terms of cost of living. In our neck of the woods prices vary but we have a very stable housing market. You can grab yourself a nice farm with 10+ acres for less than 75K and low taxes in my area but get closer to Ithaca and you are going to pay double that.

                                  If you mean the upstate version that is 100 miles outside the city well that is a whole 'nuther world.
                                  I Loff My Quarter Horse & I love Fenway Bartholomule cliques

                                  Just somebody with a positive outlook on life...go ahead...hate me for that.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Gloria View Post
                                    I beg your pardon? I live in Oklahoma (Central Oklahoma to be exact), you know, the number 1 "affordable" according to the list (and number 1 least desirable according to your analogy).

                                    9 years ago when the housing was booming, we bought this 15 acres with a 2100 sf house, 3 bed, 2 bath, for $160,000. I drive 20~30 minutes to downdown to work. If I wanted to, I could have moved 10 minutes away, and gotten 40 acres for the same price. I make a rather good salary with a generous company (100% dollar to dollar matching to your 401K, up to 15% of my total salary, plus stock bonus, cash bonus, stock options, insurance, free gym, free exercise classes, and whole slewt of things). They are sending me to Vegas for a conference for a week, business class flight. That conference will cost them $2000 and the hotel room is $200/night. And guess what, with this economy, here remains one of the few that still have strong job market going on.

                                    Undesirable? I am afraid not.

                                    You misunderstood his post. He is saying that for 100K, for example, you can get a lot more in OK, than you can in VT.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by WaningMoon View Post
                                      I live in Enosburg actually and used to have a dairy farm in Jay. My kids went to school in Jay and skied on the MOuntain there. I have always rented since divorcing my ex and leaving the farm. I have 5 dogs, 5 cats, a horse, a donkey, 5 birds and some fish. I pay $650 a month for a nice three bedroom very old post and beam home. Lovely wooden pegs you can see. The whole inside is open with a balcony around the top with the bedrooms. We are on 5 acres. Im plenty happy with it.

                                      I have rented 5 other properties appropriate for us and our animals here since 1987 when I left the farm where I"d been since 75. It has sometimes taken me a bit to find a place but I always have. I have a very good reputation for caring for my house and property. I have always gone ahead and fixed things and made repairs without bothering landlords unless it was something that I would have wanted permission to do as in actually changing something structurally. SO is a carpenter. WE just put in a new window in our bedroom this week. NO, I've never had a huge problem here renting at all. There are times where the amount of available rental places are not abundant, and the looking can be tougher. The landlord here, we've been here a yr now, says we've improved this place 110%. And we have. We worked for 435 hours just getting it cleaned and ready to move into. Had to start with brushogging a path to the front door and went on from there. To live in Vermont you must be willing to be a hard worker, not be afraid of hard work. Got to go that extra mile. Unless you're rich of course and then you can just hire ppl to do things for you. Most landlords here know that the health officers and courts do little for the tenant and thus renters for hte most part do a lot themselves but often for lesser rent too. There are some landlords who take tremendous pride in their properties and are right on the ball with repairs too, but these places are also $1500 and up. I do get sick of fixing and remodeling and then having to leave, believe me, but this is all I can do. Was at last place over 10 yrs. You don't stay somewhere that long with a landlord who isn't happpy with you. They've always like me being a tenant but I try hard to please too.

                                      Friends, that makes me feel bad. I've always felt we were one of the friendliest most outgoing ppl there are. I hope I haven't been wrong about that. I spent 1995 traveling around the US and meeting all sorts of ppl and I still come away from it thinking we were much friendlier and very welcoming to newcomers. Ah, I hope I haven't just been blinded to the fact that we are not nice ppl all these yrs. Huh. Have to think on this one.

                                      Not sure how to take Enosburg being the "cheap" part of the state. I believe the tax rate is higher in Enosburg and Bakersfield, Berkshire than anywhere else in the state. The rents may be cheaper as you have to travel to work. ON the other hand you can afford to own more here than in Chittenden Co too. Guess I like the "cheap" part, have always been in one Franklin Co town or another, from St Albans to MOntgomery. Oops, just living in Jay wasn't. We paid taxes in Orleans co for our Jay property. Half was in Jay and the other half Richford, bordered on Quebec.
                                      Part of my troubles in VT could have stemmed from me being a 22 year old from out of state with a 100lb dog. I can see how folks would rather rent to the person with a history and references in the area. I had a few of the guys I worked for scouring the countryside (literally, all the farms in Franklin County) trying to find me a place to rent and I ended up being referred to someone in Enosburg. House was great, right above the bike trail and river, but the landlord "evicted" me after 3 months because I was "late" paying my rent with an out of state check. He actually had a lawyer draft an eviction letter and send it to me saying I wasn't paying my rent on time because the funds were not immediately available and he had to wait for the check to clear. The real reason I was "evicted" though was someone offered him more than the $550/month he was charging me for the place. It took me a month to find another place to live (aside from my coworkers basement, lol) and I moved. Ironically, the house sat empty for the next 12 months because the lady he promised the house to changed her mind.

                                      I did meet lots of nice people in VT. I can see how it would be a great place to raise kids. I just found it very hard to meet people and make friends when I was there. Of course I'm a bit introverted as it is and I was broke all the time so it makes it hard to go have coffee someplace and meet people, go to a movie, etc.

                                      My dog loved VT though. We took lots of hikes and liked living so close to the river in Enosburg and living 1/4 mile from the lake when we moved to Swanton/St.Albans. I miss Jay Peak and the kayaking. It would be different if you had a family or friends there, but at that time in my life I found it hard to live there.

                                      What I do wish I had done was carry my camera with me all the time. I could have made a BEAUTIFUL coffee table book or calender with all the beautiful scenes I came across driving the back roads for work. I never did see a moose though.
                                      "You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars;
                                      you have a right to be here." ~ Desiderata by Max Ehrmann

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Oh, and I was only saying I lived in the "cheap" part of the state because someone else said that living closer to the Canadian border was cheaper. It's funny how quickly you get used to see those white and green Border Patrol vehicles everywhere.
                                        "You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars;
                                        you have a right to be here." ~ Desiderata by Max Ehrmann

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