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PA Dog laws: I was chased tonight

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  • #41
    Okay, so this makes more sense to me now, but I am still not sure this is a wise course of action for the general public. If I hit the dog and it redirects, then the only target is my horse.

    And what happens if the owner sees this behavior? Might he or she be a bigger threat than the dog at that point? What about if something happens? Legally, a dog can be excused for biting or attacking if provocation is shown (even with humans), and striking the dog would be considered provocation. So if the dog tears up my horse because I struck it with a hunting whip for barking and approaching, then I can't expect any help from the owner with the vet bills, can I? At the very least, I can expect an attorney will need to be involved, and even then, I may not get what I want.

    Again, I am not saying this is not the right approach in certain circumstances, but depending on the outcome, it could be a risky one, that's all.
    "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." -Don Marquis
    **CEO of the TQ "Learn How To Ride or MOVE OVER!!" Clique**

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    • #42
      LEGALLY- the dog owner should not have his dogs running at large. that is a law in PA. i would be HAPPY for the owner to see me have to get off my horse and give it to his dogs. maybe then he'll take better care to keep his dogs confined.

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      • #43
        ColleenT,

        is that true for hunting dogs as well?
        "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." -Don Marquis
        **CEO of the TQ "Learn How To Ride or MOVE OVER!!" Clique**

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        • #44
          all dogs must be in control at all times. if the owner can't call his dog and have it come, then it needs to be leashed.

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          • #45
            Wait, wait, wait. DO NOT get off your horse. A hunting whip is not a little riding crop. You use it from horseback, in self defense. You're much safer staying aboard.

            A hunting whip is a good-sized heavy stick with a long thong on the end. It takes PRACTICE to use it right without hitting yourself or your horse. When snapped properly it sounds LOUD, like a rifle shot. Your horse needs to be used to the sound before you go popping it off. We're not saying climb off your horse and hit a dog with a riding crop. That's crazy. You need to stay mounted. As to a proper hunting whip, the sound alone is amazingly effective but I'm sure it could be used to strike if needed. But you need to PRACTICE, a lot, first.

            And make sure you make it abundantly clear that you are doing this because you are fearful of grievously bodily harm to yourself and your horse. Put the onus on THEM for attacking YOU.

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            • #46
              Usually hunting dogs have exemption from leash laws during the season, which is why I was asking. Could these have been hunting dogs? Oops, just realized need to address that to OP, not you. My apologies!
              "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." -Don Marquis
              **CEO of the TQ "Learn How To Ride or MOVE OVER!!" Clique**

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by colleent View Post
                LEGALLY- the dog owner should not have his dogs running at large. that is a law in PA. i would be HAPPY for the owner to see me have to get off my horse and give it to his dogs. maybe then he'll take better care to keep his dogs confined.
                Colleent, dogs in training areas or in hunting areas do not have to be leashed - check your ordinances. If my dogs are legally out with me being trained and you get off your horse and "give it to" my dogs: missy, you are in one big ol' heap of trouble, and I do mean BIG trouble.

                If one of my dogs chases your horse, I'll help you flog him, but otherwise, touch my dog and it's the last thing you'll touch.

                Again, DON'T get off your horse. Even a friendly dog may attack if a total stranger dismounts and comes after him!

                So there you are, on the ground, horse jumping around, trying to hold the horse and beat a dog? Oh, yeah, that'll work. Then the horse gets away and runs (who can blame him, with the yelling and the hitting) and now you're on foot, with a strange dog or dogs that are now probably hostile to you if you haven't been able to intimidate them, and you're alone on foot with their owner. Uh, not good. Stay on!

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by Anne FS View Post
                  If my dogs are legally out with me being trained and you get off your horse and "give it to" my dogs: missy, you are in one big ol' heap of trouble, and I do mean BIG trouble.

                  If one of my dogs chases your horse, I'll help you flog him, but otherwise, touch my dog and it's the last thing you'll touch.
                  That's kind of the reaction I was thinking might occur if the owner sees you hitting his dog. Anne, I'm with you--hit my dog because you "think" it's a threat for barking, and don't worry about the dog--worry about the owner!
                  "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." -Don Marquis
                  **CEO of the TQ "Learn How To Ride or MOVE OVER!!" Clique**

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Anne FS View Post
                    Colleent, dogs in training areas or in hunting areas do not have to be leashed - check your ordinances. If my dogs are legally out with me being trained and you get off your horse and "give it to" my dogs: missy, you are in one big ol' heap of trouble, and I do mean BIG trouble.

                    If one of my dogs chases your horse, I'll help you flog him, but otherwise, touch my dog and it's the last thing you'll touch.
                    Well first of all i would not be riding where people hunt or target practice, and if your dog came after my horse, i would do whatever i could do get it away from my horse, and if that meant beating it, then so be it. If you think i cannot hold the reins of my horse while i beat a dog off, you're wrong.

                    And i read the original post again. no mention of HUNTING at all. the OP said the dogs had been seen before on her neighbors property as well.

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                    • #50
                      You're right; as I said, if my dog came after your horse, I'd help you beat it.

                      But as in the OP, the dogs saw the horse and started barking. That, although unacceptable to me, is no excuse for a rider to dismount and give it to my dogs. If I was the dog owner, I'd get my dogs under control and apologize to the rider. If I was the rider, I'd try my best to be kind and civil to the dog owner so as to keep both of us, who are obviously animal lovers, on the same team forever more, and hopefully with a little learning end up happily waving to one another or chatting whenever we saw each other in the future. Animal people need to stick together and not automatically become antagonists. So I think we're really both on the same page.

                      In the OP, sounds like the horse made the decision for the rider and that was that.

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                      • #51
                        dont ever get of the horse --- ever if you meet dog or anything else one is the horse wins two could lose it as it could pull you horses are strongest when you on the ground but your are strongest on top --

                        doesnt matter what in your way what you past birds out of bushes that shoot out and flap plastic bags rubiish wild animals dogs this is all a fact of life including buses tractors big vechilces small vechiles whatever

                        you have to ride forward and past what ever the object

                        but you got to be confident and strong on top and past as if a nothing then horse says ok mum ---

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                        • #52
                          yes, and the dogs came Running at her while barking.

                          But i think the owner of the dogs is a non-hunter and therefore in the wrong. since his dogs had been loose on her property in the past and also her neighbor's property, i would call the warden and see what could be done to ensure the man keeps his dogs under control.

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                          • #53
                            Originally posted by colleent View Post
                            Well first of all i would not be riding where people hunt or target practice,
                            To clarify - I'm not saying they were hunting. But consider this: in Illinois what we in PA call State Game Lands, they call Forest Preserve (I used to live in IL). You can use Forest Preserve land for dog training all year round - which means dogs are allowed to be off leash on Forest Preserve land, so if you're riding there, you can certainly come across legally unleashed dogs even if it's not hunting season, and because it's designated "dog training" the dogs can be suburban pet yappy dogs and not necessarily hunting dogs (ime, hunting dogs usually are not a problem around horses: hounds are used to them, and so are bird dogs; it's the pet people who cause the problems). So people let their dogs have a run, and if asked, can always say they're 'training.'

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                            • #54
                              Originally posted by Gandolph58 View Post
                              I did not read all the replies, but I am going through something similar in PA right now. For the last 6-7 weeks we have two dogs that have been chasing our horses in the pasture and they have even come into the barn!!!! The county dog warden is the person we have to deal with. He said that we have to get a picture of the dogs in the act before he can do anything about it.
                              It’s so frustrating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                              Get yourself a paintball gun. Send them home multicolored...see if the owner notices. If not the next step imho is a Real gun. Shoot. shovel. shutup. Sad for the dogs they are not really the root problem. Had one in my Arabian's pasture-dog got into my horse pasture, chasing him. Horse has a really Fast kick. Do Not chase my horse! Sad-dog brains all over the ground. No More Problem. If he had actually drawn horse blood-the end result would have been the same but I would have shot him.
                              the NOT!! Spoiled!! Arabian Protectavest poster pony lives on in my heart

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                              • #55
                                I'm sorry you had a scary experience. I posted not long ago asking for everyone's method for dealing with threatening dogs while out hacking.

                                Here's one thing we have learned since then: getting off and beating the dogs will probably make you feel lots better but may have dire consequences. There's a pack down the road from my former boarding stable, who find it funny to attack passing horses with children on them. The owners are well aware of the fact and do nothing. Animal control and the police have been called, as it is illegal to have dogs uncontrolled off one's property harassing people. They have visited the owners, but the pack is still there.

                                One day, the pack attacked two girls and their horses, opening a four inch gash in the flank of one horse and pulling tail hairs out of the other. A barn dog who'd accompanied the girls attacked the pack and began getting the worst of it. So one of the girls dismounted and laid into the pack with her whip. Fair enough, I'd say.

                                Only the owners waited until the next time they saw the barn dog near the road and ran him over with their truck, killing him.

                                So I guess I'd recommend working on your horse to bombproof him to dogs. I'd start with friendly quiet ones, move on to friendly enthusiastic ones and then take on the more aggressive types. I've heard from lots of people that teaching your horse to move towards the dogs will give him lots of confidence, because the dogs will give ground and we all know that in horse, s/he who moves feet first loses.

                                That's my plan, anyway. Glad you're both ok.
                                I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

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                                • #56
                                  yeah i know but she really doesnt want to cause a conflict as she has to live there with her horses best way is to invite him over for achat and dinner maybe and come up with a compremise a solution other wisae it becomes neighbours at hell and you have to live with it

                                  all the sress and attitude best way have a cuppa and see if you can foil man into making him beleive its his idea --- then you on a win win

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                                  • #57
                                    To go back to the OP....the guy with the dogs is a yahoo. He will always be a yahoo.

                                    She either stops riding in these woods with yahoo man and the yahoo dogs (not fair).

                                    OR...she rides out often with a calm buddy and tries to desensensitize her horse to yahoo man and yahoo dogs.

                                    If yahoo dogs come onto her property....well, that's another thread.

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                                    • #58
                                      Whatever your remedy may be - the fact that remains is this. The OP was not "chased" - she allowed herself to get carted by her horse. Had they stood their ground and not panicked, there would not now be a problem that warrants remedial training.
                                      ... _. ._ .._. .._

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                                      • #59
                                        echo equitbrit -- sorry its true

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                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by colleent View Post
                                          and if that meant beating it, then so be it.

                                          Depending on the dog (let alone the owner ) this could be remarkably ill-advised. Be prepared for extensive plastic surgery.

                                          Stay on the horse and train your horse to deal with dogs. You'll never be able to control other people's actions (regardless of the laws), you'll never be able to wholly control the environment, all you can do is train and desensitize your own horse as much as possible.

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