PA Dog laws: I was chased tonight

[goeslikestink]

in previous psot i was trying to be diplomatic

but i dont beleive you a strong rider those that said drive the horse forawrd are correct

you say you upset by horse shying -- but to get over the shy
with dogs then the confidence has to come from on top ie you

a horse will take a mile if you let them this could be anything from a dog to a bit of paper blown outwards twards you and your horse

the thing is to say its a nothing -- and conflict that nothing so the horse see it as anothing --not bothered
the more you bother the more your horse loses it -- spins turns and rin backwards or bolt back to where he came from thats a no no

so if it was in at taht time -- 1st thing i owuld havent have said anything
until the person was in sight and see if he behaved in a communtic manner of calling his dogs back to him and or putting them on a lead as a common curisty gesture to him it means hes in control of obediant dogs which gives him the respect to which you nod and say thanks

but you may have provked the situation becuase a you shouted must have done as he was 75 ft away -- and didnt say please

not saying you did provoke -- but please goes along way its one of there words thats heard

as to your situation now --more than likely the guy wont adhere to your needs when out riding so you have to over come that
and simplest way is to carry on if met them in the woods again strong leg
and drive the little horse past them let her/him know they dont bother you so want bother her

i have 5 dogs in our woods that come at you from a property that the fence line meets wellwithin the woods and if you pass and dogs out they escape and chased you --we just ride thorugh them old man fogi gives a warning by swishing his tail you get to close to my legs and you will have it --as in a kick and he dont miss---

if people are out and have there dogs and dont adhere to the golden of of collection or being under control then i do warn them loss dog loss kick
normal they get the message

but you cant let dog rule you or what you do with your horse
outside or in-- a dog is imtimadaited by the horse becuase they bigger hence the chase and yappying -- but a good dog also knowns that it can get hurt and wont chase-- only unruly dogs chase

but you have far better aminition -- when on top -think drive forward pass it --as a nothing then she wont spook at them and comes ascustome to them

[carolprudm]

I did not read all the replies, but I am going through something similar in PA right now. For the last 6-7 weeks we have two dogs that have been chasing our horses in the pasture and they have even come into the barn!!!! The county dog warden is the person we have to deal with. He said that we have to get a picture of the dogs in the act before he can do anything about it.
It’s so frustrating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yup, I dealt with the same thing last year. Getting AC to do anything is pretty much useless. I finally got my neighbors attention by letting my flock of goats on their property, but the last time the dog chased my horses my mare lost her foal a few hours later. I couldn't prove anything, of course.
However I could have envoked the 3 S law. Here in VA if a dog is chasing your livestock you have the right to shoot it.

Luckily the neighbors sold their house and I really like the people who bought it.

[redponyrider]

Sorry, but in this incident I think your animal was the one that was at fault. Dogs are a fact of life. Horses should be quite used to their antics, and if not, they need to learn. It doesn't even sound like the dogs WERE chasing you-- just watch-dog-barking and coming to see what the strange human is doing in "their" woods-- they didn't pursue you, or bite at your horse, or anything. Really no horse should BOLT when what is obviously a dog (barking) runs out. A spook in surprise, sure, but a bolt?
If a deer jumped out of the bushes and your horse bolted, you'd blame your horse wouldn't you? same thing here.

[3fatponies]

I have had the most luck with pesky dogs by stopping my horse, facing them and using the "bad dog" voice. That's the meanest, growliest voice you can produce while saying "NO! GET! NO!" When they pause in confusion or back off, I soften my voice and tell them, "good dog." I have never had a dog that ignored it--unless they are feral, they do understand the "step forward, get verbal correction; step back, get verbal reward" method. Plus, I think it pulls the focus from the horse to you, and makes it clear that a confident human is supervising, which is something that most dogs respond to.

While I am sure that there are plenty of places where the dogs bothering horses are dangerous, the ones I run into are people's pets. They are dogs who are doing their job by warning that gigantic, smelly thing to stay away from their territory, and generally, even the most fearsome looking is smart enough to stand back a bit while doing it.

[colleent]

Gandolf you have the right to shoot those dogs. so if they come chasing your horses again, go shoot them.

[colleent]

Sorry, but in this incident I think your animal was the one that was at fault. Dogs are a fact of life. Horses should be quite used to their antics, and if not, they need to learn. It doesn't even sound like the dogs WERE chasing you-- just watch-dog-barking and coming to see what the strange human is doing in "their" woods-- they didn't pursue you, or bite at your horse, or anything. Really no horse should BOLT when what is obviously a dog (barking) runs out. A spook in surprise, sure, but a bolt?
If a deer jumped out of the bushes and your horse bolted, you'd blame your horse wouldn't you? same thing here.

i totally disagree. in PA a loose dog is illegal. it is NOT a FACT OF LIFE. when dogs come growling and snarling at you and your horse spooks, that is what is natural. i sure as hell would not want one of those dogs grabbing the tendons of my horses leg. Rider did what she had to do.

[Ride'emCO]

I'm with Equibrit - I would take this as a training opportunity to 1. teach my horse not to bolt from dogs, and 2. teach my horse to stand when I crack a whip. Then I'd use our new knowledge to the best possible advantage.

[Anne FS]

Oh for heaven's sake. The dogs weren't "growling and snarling."

And this is totally different than loose dogs running on your property.

I see both sides of this one. The OP admits the dogs had every right to be there. Both sides are at fault in this one.

The horse should not have bolted at the sight of two barking dogs. The dogs should've been under voice control of the owner. Obviously here we have two humans whose animals both need training/desensitizing to the other. Since that's the case it's a damn shame that the OP says if she falls it's HIS fault!!

I agree with those who've said:

-learn how to use a hunting whip
-train your horse
-be nice to dog owners - animal people are in this TOGETHER and have to stick TOGETHER. There are enough people out there who want ALL animals banned from using the woods.

The OP said township-owned land, not state-owned, so I don't know what the deal is there, but in PA it's the hunters, most of whom use dogs for bird and small-game hunting, who PAID for the land with their hunting fees to begin with, and it riles me no end when people want them and their dogs off the land. It's because of those people we even have the land in the first place and we owe them a HUGE thank you and support and need to be TOGETHER with them.

I am not a hunter, btw, but I know who pays for the undeveloped land in PA.

I certainly too would be mad as h*** if someone's dogs rushed me and my horse and I would not hesitate to run at them - HARD - and/or use a hunting whip in self defense.

[3fatponies]

Gandolf you have the right to shoot those dogs. so if they come chasing your horses again, go shoot them.

While I agree with this recommendation if certain conditions are met (ie. the dogs trespass on YOUR property to bother your horses), encouraging someone to blast away a dog or two in the company of their owner on "public" land is not the answer. In fact, should the OP chose to pursue this option, she may be in violation of the law, exposing herself to both civil and criminal liability.

Guns are not for solving conflict in public places, and if you chose to use them like that, you damage the image and future rights of all of us who are law-abiding, responsible gun owners.

[Anne FS]

I have had the most luck with pesky dogs by stopping my horse, facing them and using the "bad dog" voice. That's the meanest, growliest voice you can produce while saying "NO! GET! NO!" When they pause in confusion or back off, I soften my voice and tell them, "good dog."

This is great. Protecting yourself and your horse, and helping the dogs learn appropriate behavior, too! Really good.

Also, praising the dog could soften angry/frightened dog owners. Your "bad dog" voice is also for the dog's protection, too, lest he get bit and/or trampled. I know this of course but sometimes owners are slow to appreciate it. Correcting someone's dog is like correcting their kid - NOT well received! but your way's the best way. If it doesn't work, then you can escalate to other methods necessary to protect you and your horse (and the dogs long-term).

[3fatponies]

Anne FS,

I have done this in front of owners, and never had one angry about it. Rather, they are relieved that the situation isn't escalating, and the time it gives them to hustle over and grab the dog if they are concerned. Compared to some of the other options, such as striking the dog or running, I think this is worth the effort to try. You can always escalate your response if it doesn't work, but once you strike the dog or let the horse bolt, things have a great chance of becoming ugly quickly.

I would not say I would never strike the dog, but there is the issue of provocation: what happens if you strike the dog to drive it off and provoke an aggressive reaction in defense? That dog, being a predator in a heightened state of arousal, may redirect at you or your horse and if you are not prepared for that possibility, you can congratuate yourself for making the situation that much more dangerous. Better you put your energy into learning canine body language and behavioral patterns so that it does not get to that point. Unless it's absolutely necessary, I wouldn't risk hitting the dog, but that's just my $.02.

[CHS]

Unfortunately

It sounds to me like the dog owner and OP were in the wrong here. Yes it is illegal and irresponsible to let the dogs run at large, but the horse owner wasn't in control of her animal either.
Both parties lost control of their animals. Both are at fault.
Anyone who brings ANY animal out on public property needs to be in control of that animal at all times. If you can't be in total control of that animal for whatever reason it is YOUR fault.

[katarine]

What CHS said- the laws don't matter in the moment. Safety and horsemanship skills- that's what counts.

A horse who can't handle a few loose, silly dogs in the woods- does not need to be in the woods alone. Had it been a deer, or wild pigs, lol, or whatever- the commotion may upset him and cause him to try to flee.

Work on learning how to really ride your horse, no matter what crosses your path.

[3fatponies]

Work on learning how to really ride your horse, no matter what crosses your path.

Wonderful advice!!

[colleent]

While I agree with this recommendation if certain conditions are met (ie. the dogs trespass on YOUR property to bother your horses), encouraging someone to blast away a dog or two in the company of their owner on "public" land is not the answer. In fact, should the OP chose to pursue this option, she may be in violation of the law, exposing herself to both civil and criminal liability.

Guns are not for solving conflict in public places, and if you chose to use them like that, you damage the image and future rights of all of us who are law-abiding, responsible gun owners.

please read carefully. i was speaking to Gandolf who 's horses were being chased in her pastures. on HER property.

[katarine]

please read carefully. i was speaking to Gandolf who 's horses were being chased in her pastures. on HER property.

AGREED- those dogs need a dose of rocksalt in their bee-hinds, if not worse.

[3fatponies]

please read carefully. i was speaking to Gandolf who 's horses were being chased in her pastures. on HER property.

Ah! My apologies.

[Equibrit]

Dogs understand that if you cause them some pain, you MEAN it, and they back off and REMEMBER. All it takes is one swift hard lesson. (watch how dogs interact to verify this theory) All you get with all the "good dog" and "bad dog" stuff is a dog who will take advantage of NOT having been disciplined.

The horse on the other hand just needs a confident rider who is IN CHARGE.

[3fatponies]

Dogs understand that if you cause them some pain, you MEAN it, and they back off and REMEMBER. All it takes is one swift hard lesson. (watch how dogs interact to verify this theory) All you get with all the "good dog" and "bad dog" stuff is a dog who will take advantage of NOT having been disciplined.

How does the dog take advantage of that? If the dog responds to a voice command by producing the desired response (backing up, moving away, etc.), how does that constitute it taking advantage? If I get off my horse and hit it with a hunting whip for barking at me, how is that a better approach than verbally engaging the dog and creating a situation where the dog is rewarded for the right behavior, not just punished for the wrong one?

I don't disagree with your approach in some circumstances, but my point is that anyone physically correcting a dog they do not know needs to be prepared for a potentially dangerous outcome. It may only happen in one out of hundred cases, but they need to be aware that it's certainly possible.

[Equibrit]

If I get off my horse and hit it with a hunting whip for barking at me, how is that a better approach than verbally engaging the dog and creating a situation where the dog is rewarded for the right behavior, not just punished for the wrong one?


!. You would not get off your horse and put yourself in any further jeopardy.
2. YOU do not need to "engage" with somebody else's dog.
3. He will not take advantage the NEXT time he is tempted to repeat this behaviour.
4. You are letting him know that what he attempted to do is NOT in his best interests. (that is how we learn that fire is hot)
5. You are not teaching him to bark and get rewarded.