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people amaze me :(

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  • #21
    Arabhorse, thank you for saying this:

    I really, really, REALLY wish people would stop saying they 'know' a horse has been beaten when it acts as if it's frightened, or is head shy.

    I once took care of my DIL's horse. When she came out to see him for the first time after several months, he shied away from her, and she accused me of beating him

    (and no, I did NOT beat him)

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by Trixie View Post
      Perhaps I'm missing something but it seems like it would be awfully hard to prove libel just by posting a bloodline and where you found the horse. Further, wouldn't you have to prove that the claims are untrue?

      The OP did not name names, unless the post has been edited.
      The OP didn't name names, but just as ArabHorse said, it doesn't take much for people to figure it out, this poster has found the name and telephone number of the seller:

      [edit]

      Originally posted by Oldgreymare View Post
      Arabhorse, thank you for saying this:

      I really, really, REALLY wish people would stop saying they 'know' a horse has been beaten when it acts as if it's frightened, or is head shy.

      I once took care of my DIL's horse. When she came out to see him for the first time after several months, he shied away from her, and she accused me of beating him

      (and no, I did NOT beat him)
      I agree. A horse in a new situation, especially an older horse who hasn't been exposed to much, can act as though they are terrified - and it's easy to assume the terror is a result of the owner's behaviour, but that's not always the case. I'm not saying this horse was never beaten or abused, but there is a danger with assuming.

      She does look lovely and I hope the OP and the mare have a long and very happy future together.
      Last edited by Moderator 1; Aug. 14, 2009, 09:32 AM.

      Comment


      • #23
        The OP didn't name names, but just as ArabHorse said, it doesn't take much for people to figure it out, this poster has found the name and telephone number of the seller:
        Sure - but the OP did not post the name of the horse or the name of the owner, nor did she confirm if they were one and the same.

        Don't get me wrong - I think it's silly to assume the horse was abused based on nervousness but it seems a weak case for libel. Though, I'm not an attorney.
        ---
        They're small hearts.

        Comment


        • #24
          To the OP: THANK YOU!!! A lot of times people see a tiny bit of spirit in a horse and starve it down to a weakling, because that's all they can handle. A real tragedy.

          Originally posted by arabhorse2 View Post
          Her shaking doesn't mean she's been beaten. Young, untrained horses are extremely nervous when confronted with something new.

          I really, really, REALLY wish people would stop saying they 'know' a horse has been beaten when it acts as if it's frightened, or is head shy.

          Unless you actually saw her being abused, you're skating a very thin line that could lead to libel. I hope your seller doesn't read COTH.

          Not sure how many horses you've handled or how you handle them, but in my world youngsters don't quiver and shake at new things.

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Chardavej View Post
            No not really, and neither should you UNLESS it pertains to you.
            So when somebody makes an accusation that you've done something despicable without having any basis whatsoever for that accusation other than their eager flying leap at a conclusion, you don't want anybody standing up and saying, "Now you don't actually KNOW that to be a fact, and if you don't have hard proof beyond your 'gut feeling', you really shouldn't be saying stuff like that...."?????

            Comment


            • #26
              Whoa there folks. OP isn't going to want to come back and update on the horse if this is where it goes.

              We all agree that OP should not make assumptions on a public forum and that horses that have not been abused sometimes act like it in new or strange situations; but I think most people were up in arms over the tone of arabhorse2's posts.

              So, now that we've got that out of the way, can we get back on track? It's all about the horse after all.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by dacasodivine View Post
                We all agree that OP should not make assumptions on a public forum and that horses that have not been abused sometimes act like it in new or strange
                Apparently we do not "all" agree on any such thing. Several folks have joined the blow-smoke-up-OP's-butt brigade and added a few extra wonderfulness points to her horsey mommy score because the horse she bought was both starved AND beaten instead of just starved.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by greysandbays View Post
                  Apparently we do not "all" agree on any such thing. Several folks have joined the blow-smoke-up-OP's-butt brigade and added a few extra wonderfulness points to her horsey mommy score because the horse she bought was both starved AND beaten instead of just starved.


                  sorry....i'm really happy the OP got a new horse but there is a trend on COTH to be showered with rose petals if you "rescue" a horse. I'm not saying the OP is guilty of that sort of ego trip but sometimes with other posters (again i don't know the OP) I wonder if the horse will really be better off or if it was ever in a bad situation to begin with.

                  Its like horsey-munchausen syndrome
                  http://www.clarkdesigngrouparchitects.com/index.html - Lets build your dream barn

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                  • #29
                    OH...puleeeze..!
                    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      seriously????
                      Proud Mama of a BOY rider

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Meredith Clark View Post


                        sorry....i'm really happy the OP got a new horse but there is a trend on COTH to be showered with rose petals if you "rescue" a horse. I'm not saying the OP is guilty of that sort of ego trip but sometimes with other posters (again i don't know the OP) I wonder if the horse will really be better off or if it was ever in a bad situation to begin with.

                        Its like horsey-munchausen syndrome
                        Okay, people are angry that the OP has made an accusation, however, you are insinuating the same thing. But in this case, it is way over the top..wow ..
                        MnToBe Twinkle Star: "Twinkie"
                        http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...wo/009_17A.jpg

                        Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Aimee Thanatogenus View Post
                          Not sure how many horses you've handled or how you handle them, but in my world youngsters don't quiver and shake at new things.
                          None? Not one horse you have ever encountered has reacted to new scary situations in a manner that shows they are scared?

                          My mare does. And I KNOW for a fact she has never been abused at all. If anything her first year she was treated almost too nicely (yes, that is possible). No limits ever set, etc.
                          Now anything that is new causes trauma. Anything that does not allow her to have her own way also causes her to carry on in a manner that I am sure the OP would proclaim she was abused.

                          I agree with AH.

                          I get so tired of people proclaiming their animal must have been abused because of how it reacts to certain things. I have had my dog since she was 5 weeks old. She has never been anything close to abused. She is an outgoing and happy thing even. But if you yell and move quick she is puts her tail between her legs and acts nervous. I am sure that would have all of the all knowing types proclaiming she was abused at some point. Oh, and she loves men but really could care less about women so her abuse must have come from a woman, hu?


                          OP, glad you upgraded the mare. I can not wait to see the before and after photos of her weight.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            There is a groundless and ridiculous belief on the part of many on this bulletin board that any negative remark can result in a successful lawsuit. Anytime anyone gripes about a trainer, seller or other person, some pundit here will caution them that they could get sued.

                            That's baloney, people. THere is such a thing as free speech, and people are allowed to gripe and complain and gossip without it becoming a legal matter. If it were that easy to sue people, there would be even more lawyers in the US than there already are.

                            You're perfectly free to gripe about just about anything in the United States and the court system will not come busting down your door 30 seconds after. You can't just sue anyone for anything.

                            The burning Micky D's coffee lady is often mentioned to 'prove' that anyone can sue anyone for anything. That case was reported in such a misleading and inaccurate way that the only possible conclusion is someone was trying to boost newspaper sales.

                            It really isn't that easy to tell if a horse was abused or not.

                            Some horses are just nervous. In fact, it is quite likely that you simply just bought yourself a very nervous horse. Horses that stand in place and tremble are usually quite nervous. Time will tell.

                            Often, it is more a matter of nothing at all being done with the horse.

                            Those who are suggesting or implying that 'well treated horses never get nervous' are woefully lacking in experience and information. Horses are most relaxed in a situation they are familiar with. Put them in a different situation, most of them will react very obviously with nervousness.

                            Sometimes, it's that the new owner handles the horse differently, and this startles the horse and makes it nervous. I've seen this too many times to count. The new owner walks, moves and gestures differently, it startles the horse. It's that simple. Horses are quiet around what they're used to.

                            And...please do not decide someone abused a horse because ONCE, they used the whip to get the horse to canter. That is incredibly unfair and it's just ignorant. Frankly, it sounds much more like they never did a darned thing with her and were having to do that just to get her to move so you could see what she was like.

                            And, if you buy a horse without papers, you are accepting the fact that there is absolutely no proof that it has any desirable blood lines at all. Unless the horse is registered and transferred to you it could be anything.

                            Additionally, this filly is thin, but I don't see any ribs or hips sticking out in the picture. Youngsters often are thin, and good thing if they are, or they will have joint problems later in life. I feel that you've been quite unfair to this seller, especially to come here and run them down the way you have. It's better to keep these things confidential.

                            And if there's any truth to the abuse and starving allegations, take it to the local authorities. The information belongs on a bulletin board for all the public to see, but AFTER it is presented to the authorities and anything that can be done has been done.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              We removed some identifying info from the OP and some subsequent posts referencing a potential ID for the mare to comply with board policy.

                              You're welcome to discuss terminology used, etc., but dial down the heat a bit and keep things focused on the orginal topic.

                              Thanks!
                              Mod 1

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Huntertwo View Post
                                Okay, people are angry that the OP has made an accusation, however, you are insinuating the same thing. But in this case, it is way over the top..wow ..
                                I was joking about horsey-munchhausens but the idea is a serious one. AGAIN I'm NOT talking about the OP here.. I don't know her, but how often do we read about hoarders who take in horses as a "rescue" and end up not being able to take care of them. How do we know they aren't on COTH being cheered for taking in that poor starved abused horse only to have it taken away by animal control or running out of money and send it to auction (we all know a rescue like that right??)

                                I am tickled the OP got a new horse but we all have to admit there are most likely people out there that get a rush by being cyber-cheered on by other COTHers. They (NOT THE OP) want the attention and to feel like they're doing something amazing. Again, I'm sure the OP is not one of them but I think that was some of what the previous poster was talking about.
                                http://www.clarkdesigngrouparchitects.com/index.html - Lets build your dream barn

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by Meredith Clark View Post
                                  I was joking about horsey-munchhausens but the idea is a serious one.
                                  Off topic, but it's a great phrase; I know I will be using it. I sometimes wonder if my vet thinks I have this, with all the issues my horse comes up with!

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by greysandbays View Post
                                    So when somebody makes an accusation that you've done something despicable without having any basis whatsoever for that accusation other than their eager flying leap at a conclusion, you don't want anybody standing up and saying, "Now you don't actually KNOW that to be a fact, and if you don't have hard proof beyond your 'gut feeling', you really shouldn't be saying stuff like that...."?????
                                    Why would you care to defend me against someone talking about me? Do you know me? I don't know the OP, I don't know the seller, therefore I don't care.
                                    I want a signature but I have nothing original to say except: "STHU and RIDE!!!

                                    Wonderful COTHER's I've met: belleellis, stefffic, snkstacres and janedoe726.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Chardavej View Post
                                      Why would you care to defend me against someone talking about me? Do you know me? I don't know the OP, I don't know the seller, therefore I don't care.
                                      Actually, in most cases (and probably you as well), I'd prefer to NOT defend you against somebody tallking uproven trash about them/you. It would be a good deal more amusing to say, "Oh, yeah, I'm totally down with what you're saying; she's done blah, blah, blah and is a blight on humankind".

                                      However, decent people have an obligation to "The Truth", whether they know the people involved or not. And part of that obligation is attempting to thwart untruths/unsubstantiated accusations about people they don't know.

                                      If, however, you wish to assert that you are not a decent person and would refuse to acknowledge any such obligation to "The Truth" and that you yourself are not deserving of such defense, I guess I wouldn't question your judgement on that...

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Meredith - I hear you, finally.
                                        Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Congrats!

                                          Zippandrich - congrats on your new project! I do hope you'll take the time to show us photos. My favorite topics are before and after photos, seeing horses became healthy and happy.
                                          Katie Ruppel & Yellow Rose Eventing *Website* & *Facebook*
                                          Email for Questions/Clinics/Sponsorship

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