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Solid Appies? Argh.

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  • #61
    i'm also not saying to stop loving your horse if it is a spotted QH, but lets stop breeding them. and let's call them for what they are.

    i think as far as Joker B goes, the QH's of his time were not the ones of today, and i don't think those QH's back then were all so pure, anyway. So i think Tango qualifies as a foundation TYPE Appy. or he did. he passed away from cancer at 25. that photo is him 6 months before he died.

    here is info on JokerB

    http://www.appaloosajournal.com/maga...es/jokerb.html

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Sandy M View Post
      Hard to decipher all of that pedigree, but I'd say not: There's a mix of MOSTLY Appaloosa, some QH, some TB. I don't know that she'd qualify as Foundation under FAHR standards, but she might under ApHC standards. I'm not clear on ApHC requirements, but I know they are not as stringent as FAHR. To me, it looks like there's enough Appy in there for her NOT to be considered a Quarterloosa. When I say Quarterloosa I look to three things:

      1. More QH than App in the pedigree (not the case for your horse);
      2. Conformation (you say not Quarterloosa conformation)
      3. Color - less a factor: Some Quarterloosas luck out with good color; but the more you dilute, the less color in most cases.
      Thanks much! I'm mostly kidding about the quarterloosa title (since she looks like an old school ideal appy painting I found online once - leggy, hardy, not much tail, athletic for days in tons of areas) but am always on the lookout for another opinion on her pedigree. There's a picture of her on page 2 of this thread, at 20 years old in a dressage clinic. She's a cool, cool mare.

      And, she's had one all-appy foal, with another in the works. If we could just get into blankets or leopard instead of varnish roan, I'd be thrilled, but I'll take a copy of Kate any day, regardless of the pattern on the jacket.
      "talking about love is like dancing about architecture..."
      A Wink & A NodPlaying by HeartA Wing & A PrayerBest to be Elusive

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by colleent View Post
        i'm also not saying to stop loving your horse if it is a spotted QH, but lets stop breeding them. and let's call them for what they are.

        i think as far as Joker B goes, the QH's of his time were not the ones of today, and i don't think those QH's back then were all so pure, anyway. So i think Tango qualifies as a foundation TYPE Appy. or he did. he passed away from cancer at 25. that photo is him 6 months before he died.

        I totally agree. Like I said, AQHA couldn't quite figure out what a Quarter Horse was back then - '30s and '40s - and a lot of roan Apps were registered QH - and certainly they were Foundation type working horses, not herefords at halter. Nothing wrong with that... Appaloosas as a breed in this country were nearly "extinct" in the early 20th Century, and it is only through the efforts of men like Claude Thompson, Peckinpah and George Hatley that the breed was restablished. In a situation like that, it was inevitable that "other" blood had to be used to re-refine a breed corrupted by draft crossing, etc. Still - as I said, THEY used primarily Arab and TB - not bulldog QH types.

        Look at me - I love Foundation and one side of the baby I bought IS Foundation - but the other side is Arab (which is more compatible to my mind than AQHA). A whole new experience for me (or it will be next year). I've ridden Arabs and half-Arabs and have no problem with them, but I've never owned one, let alone one that will be over 16 hands. ROFLOL!!!! (The vet who did the PPE said to me, "Wow, so you've combined two of the smartest breeds - Arab and Appaloosa.....you're going to have a lot fun." There was a funny tone to her voice when she said "fun.........."
        Last edited by Sandy M; Nov. 3, 2006, 02:23 PM.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Delighted View Post
          Thanks much! I'm mostly kidding about the quarterloosa title (since she looks like an old school ideal appy painting I found online once - leggy, hardy, not much tail, athletic for days in tons of areas) but am always on the lookout for another opinion on her pedigree. There's a picture of her on page 2 of this thread, at 20 years old in a dressage clinic. She's a cool, cool mare.
          I think one of the things that REALLY made me hair-tearing-out-bomb-threat angry was when they changed the symbolic ApHC Appaloosa from the classic George Phippen painting - a leggy, high neck set, middle of the road saddle horse conformation, with a hock length tail, to a painting by Orren Mixer - TOTAL beefy QH with a blanket. AAARRRRGGGH!!!! I HATE my ApHC membership card. Since I'm not showing, I didn't even renew last year, nor will I renew next year unless my local club FORCES me to in order to keep official recognition (You have to have a certain number of "National" members.)

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          • #65
            I haven't renewed either. I hate the halter QH with a blanket look, hell, a lot of QH people don't even like that type of horse! Why can't they use a pic of a true appy type horse?
            http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...nibbystrot.jpg
            http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...t=IMGP0754.jpg

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            • #66
              yes, i have agreed not to renew. i might even join up with the foundation app club. i also was disgusted with the photo of the "ideal" app. Come on! give me a rat tail anyday.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by colleent View Post
                yes, i have agreed not to renew. i might even join up with the foundation app club. i also was disgusted with the photo of the "ideal" app. Come on! give me a rat tail anyday.

                Some years ago, I felt SOOO sorry for a poor kid at a horse trial. She had a really cute rat-tailed blue roan Appy mare, about 15.2 or 15.3. She had started what promised to be a really nice training level dressage test, when someone got dumped on cross-country and the horse came TEARING through the middle of the dressage arena. Her nice little mare didn't blow, but stopped in her tracks and that tail went STRAIGHT up. It had about 6 hairs on it. The judge let her start over without penalty, and the horse never blew, but it was obviously tense (which it had not been before the incident) and went through the entire test with that tail totally vertical. Funny, but sad for her. I think the judge made SOME allowance - her score wasn't bad, but it had promised to be a really excellent score. In that case, probably wouldn't have looked so bad if it had been a flowy tail - just an "Arab" moment, but with that rat tail.......

                I needlepointed a pillow of the Phippen Appaloosa and have it on my bed.

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                • #68
                  There was a discussion on the dressage board about horses holding their tail. I think a few people said that it was always due to back pain, but i think a lot of appys hold their tails in normal work, not over their butt, but swaying with the motion. Does anyone else find this? You can see Cosmo doing this in my photos below.
                  http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...nibbystrot.jpg
                  http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...t=IMGP0754.jpg

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                  • #69
                    Any horse of any breed that is working through its back and is relaxed should have a slightly swinging (not wringing) tail.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Delighted View Post
                      Sandy M - I've got to know. She doesn't look like a quarterloosa, she doesn't act like a quarterloosa... but is my mare considered a quarterloosa?

                      http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/r+southern+bars

                      I'll... TRY... to love her just the same if she's a quarterloosa, but I'm making no promises...

                      That web site says my Appy's dad is a QH and his papers say otherwise. Weird.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                        That web site says my Appy's dad is a QH and his papers say otherwise. Weird.

                        That website allows anyone to mess with the pedigrees. I wouldn't take it as bible. I actually entered most of the pedigree for my present horse's sire from an extended pedigree given to me by the breeder.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Just saw this and being a PROUD breeders of SPOTTED apps, had to chime in. First off, spots are not guaranteed in breeding apps, far from it! But the genetics of appaloosa breeding are much better understood today than they used to be and there ARE ways of "guaranteeing" you will get at least app characteristics, and most likely SOME form of appaloosa coloring. My stallion is a SNowcap which means he will ALWAYS thrw one copy of the appaloosa lp gene regardless of what he is bred to. However, the outcrossing that the ApHC has allowed has created even more possibility of "solids" in the breed as the outcrosses at best are heterozygous for lp and many are born solid. But you can have a 100% appaloosa that has generations of spotted/colored apps in the pedigree and is solid! And to me they ARE appaloosas. I prefer to have a colored app (although one of my mares IS a solid app, who is half TB) and so we purposefully bought a stallion that will produce color. We also don't breed the "QH" type but we try and produce a "sporthorse" type of appaloosa. Of course, to each his own, and I won't "knock" the AP type breeders, if thats what they want then so be it!
                          www.shawneeacres.net

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by shawneeAcres View Post
                            Just saw this and being a PROUD breeders of SPOTTED apps, had to chime in. First off, spots are not guaranteed in breeding apps, far from it! But the genetics of appaloosa breeding are much better understood today than they used to be and there ARE ways of "guaranteeing" you will get at least app characteristics, and most likely SOME form of appaloosa coloring. My stallion is a SNowcap which means he will ALWAYS thrw one copy of the appaloosa lp gene regardless of what he is bred to. However, the outcrossing that the ApHC has allowed has created even more possibility of "solids" in the breed as the outcrosses at best are heterozygous for lp and many are born solid. But you can have a 100% appaloosa that has generations of spotted/colored apps in the pedigree and is solid! And to me they ARE appaloosas. I prefer to have a colored app (although one of my mares IS a solid app, who is half TB) and so we purposefully bought a stallion that will produce color. We also don't breed the "QH" type but we try and produce a "sporthorse" type of appaloosa. Of course, to each his own, and I won't "knock" the AP type breeders, if thats what they want then so be it!

                            I have no problems with solid Apps (I may not buy one out of preference for color, but I don't say they aren't Appaloosas) if their pedigree contains a sufficient percentage of Appaloosa blood. But I can't be so charitable towards those producing the QH type - they are diluting the Appaloosa blood in their horses pedigrees well beyond the point where the horses can truly be considered Appaloosas. Those breeders should apply to AQHA to be accepted like the Paints or as some sort of appendix of "Spotted QHs." (just kidding - but with more truth than I like).

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Am I the only one who noticed the gelding symbol on FAHR's website registry? LOL, I guess it's true, X marks the spot where whence it was...
                              the things that i had not ought to
                              i do because i ve gotto
                              wotthehell wotthehell

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                              • #75
                                My horse is 1/2 appy 1/2 TB. He got his crappy feet from the TB, the two inch think mane and floor length tail from the TB, the big ugly head from the Appy, and the "want to beat him with a skillet" attitude from the Appy! He has no spots, although he does have the appy eyes, and he is very good at rolling these eyes when he's in a mood.

                                He is totally dead broke, but he thinks that horses have an opinion. He'll do anything in the world if it's fun or if it's his idea, but God help you if you doesn't feel like working today.

                                People ask what's wrong with my horse and I say "oh, he's half appy." They look at me, shake their heads, and mumble about how sorry they are!

                                Had I gotten him as a young horse before he had some poor training he would have been one hell of an animal. Now I think he's close to retiring and I'd do anything in the world to have him do his appy "aint gonna do that never" plant his feet in the ground in front of something he doesn't agree with.
                                http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  I just got my first copy of the Appaloosa journal... man, there are a lot of solids in here, wow... I only know the local breeders, and their appys are full of spots! This IS weird!!
                                  Sarina

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Thoroloosa?

                                    Not to hijack, but my horse was a total "Thoroloosa." We think his mom (the Appy) was a test mare for a TB stud. He's on the pedigree website as "Apple Sox." I need to find his papers so I can fill out the Mom's side. Dad's side popped up automatically. Take away his spots and he was all fine-boned TB. He was awesome. If I can find a pic, I will post. :-)

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by snokat View Post
                                      Not to hijack, but my horse was a total "Thoroloosa." We think his mom (the Appy) was a test mare for a TB stud.
                                      Secretariat's first foal (the colt, "First Secretary") was out of an App test mare.
                                      Founder of the Olde Farte Clique

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post
                                        My horse is 1/2 appy 1/2 TB. He got his crappy feet from the TB, the two inch think mane and floor length tail from the TB, the big ugly head from the Appy, and the "want to beat him with a skillet" attitude from the Appy! He has no spots, although he does have the appy eyes, and he is very good at rolling these eyes when he's in a mood.

                                        He is totally dead broke, but he thinks that horses have an opinion. He'll do anything in the world if it's fun or if it's his idea, but God help you if you doesn't feel like working today.

                                        People ask what's wrong with my horse and I say "oh, he's half appy." They look at me, shake their heads, and mumble about how sorry they are!

                                        Had I gotten him as a young horse before he had some poor training he would have been one hell of an animal. Now I think he's close to retiring and I'd do anything in the world to have him do his appy "aint gonna do that never" plant his feet in the ground in front of something he doesn't agree with.
                                        I don't think Apps have BIG UGLY HEADS, or are ugly at all. I always say, you have to be smarter than the app, and when he figures that you are, he'll do anything for you. and it's proven to be right for every appy i have owned.

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Here is a picture of my cousin's "Quarterloosa." (I am NOT attempting to sell this horse for her. IN FACT, all of you run FAR AWAY from this horse!!)

                                          http://dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php...orse_id=819571

                                          He could pass for a breeding stock Paint, too.
                                          "Oh, sure, you may be able to take down one smurf, but mark my words: You bonk one smurf, you better be ready for a blue wave."---Bucky Katt

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