Non Profits Orgs. & Compensation (Paid Board Members)

[AC4H]

In this instance, I am referring to AC4H, but this is certainly not the only rescue in the same situation. Anyone who deals full time with rescue has to be very clear as to how they support themselves. Is it somehow through the rescue? In that case, how? What are the donations going to?
I have been burned before and I just do not donate anymore to this type of set up. However, with clear responses and clear guidelines, you never know.

I am happy to answer your questions even though you will never donate because we do rescue horses from slaughter dealing with kill buyers and brokers. Have you ever thought about the rescue network in general? I mean you go to auction and your purchasing from mostly dealers or brokers as they are the ones who for the most part buy and sell through auctions to make money. You also have owners who sell there and if you purchase their horse then your providing a monetary reward for them dumping their horse... the whole thing stinks for the horses who cannot help where they wound up. Just as an fyi we just placed Night Slew who was given to us read the story discarded for the cost of a bullet on the website.... she was too thin to go through the sale and actually animal angels has a picture of her standing in the trailer in the parking lot on their website. We also just arranged for a grey TB to go to Helping Hearts Monday $0 fee who was too thin to go through the sale. So yes we are still helping horses from the auctions too, thank you.

Now to your financial questions - this is going to be long. My background.... I worked from the time I was 15 and my dad lost his job as an Air Traffic Controller (back in the 80's) until my oldest daughters due date. I did everything from cashier to taking a course in real estate and selling homes to going to office management and working my way up to medical billing manager. After our first daughter was born I worked from home and did cleaning jobs and babysat, taught Sunday School I did Mary Kay, Market America these are multilevel marketing companies where you get paid off sales. I also did lead generation over the internet sales.

We did rescue out of our pocket and we did rescue that way for 5 years - no donations - our money. We learned on our dime about the auctions and strangles and quarantine- we learned a lot!

My husband, Rick Sheidy, his entire family is known in this area for building things bridges and houses but they aren't rich and actually Rick's dad died a young age Rick said from stress of running his own business and people not paying which is why Rick was very set against opening his own busines. My husband worked for the family business for many years and then went to work through the union as a carpenter for many years.

Just as an fyi to teach Sunday school and to work in schools you have to have a criminal background check done. We are clean lol. We have also both lived in this same area for MANY years. Rick his whole life and my family moved to PA in 79.

Back to the work situation... Rick got hurt and hurt bad. Not proud to say we had some very tough times. We did have to declare bankruptsy. It stinks but it happens. We got a settlement because of his injuries and we paid everything off with the exception of our house. Our house is a double wide mobile home with an addition that sits on approx 1 1/2 acres. I have heard some say it's a mansion! We to this day do not have any payments other than our house which we owe about $67,000. We do not have credit cards, car payments or expensive jewelry or items. We either have the money to buy something or we don't get it - we live modestly and we do without to do rescue. The most important thing we do not have is health insurance.

We do file taxes and we do work. Rick has not nor ever has been on disability. He is still able to work and actually we have been downsizing our numbers because we are getting older and we do need health insurance. Other than what I mentioned above that we did and the carpentry work we found our niche with ponies. We did protect them with contracts and they were housed on my parents property, my kids trained them under my supervision and they were placed again with protective written contracts on average $2,500/piece and we had/have waiting lists. This year my daughters did not train ponies they worked with the rescue horses as volunteers.

Now for the rescue - At this time my family owns 2 mini mares that were both rescue'd . They are not at the farms we rent to house rescue horses. We have a business account and all payments go to the business account so that all funds have to be deposited. If you go to the bank with your personal account you can deposit some and take some cash out - you can't with the business account and we did it that way for accounting purposes. From there the funds are reported on a 990 and an independent audit done.

Salary and payments... we don't have any employee's and Rick and I do not take a salary. It is perfectly legal to do - but we don't. Again we paid out of our pocket for the first 5 years that we rescued and hit all the learning curves.

I thought that since my personal lifestyle was brought up I would take pictures of our house, yard and vehicles. Here is the link since you can't come visit and see for yourself. Pictures of our farms and some video footage is on the website under pic's and blog link also many pictures of visitors too. http://www.flickr.com/photos/another...7621890446027/

Sorry this is so long but I didn't want anyone to think we are trying to hide anything and hope that this clears up how and why we do things. Thank you for taking the time to read.

There are many volunteers who see how we live and what we do for the horses. If you ever do get a chance and are in the area please do give us a call and we will be happy to show you around.

Christy Sheidy www.ac4h.com

[Angela Freda]

MMorgan my post is about lessons and personal guidelines I have thanks to the experience I had with CBER and it applies to any and all rescues I come into contact with from that day forward.

It is important to learn a lesson, and learn them well.
For in rescue, in the end, it's the horses who pay when we choose poorly.

[MMorgan]

Sadly, you learned a bitter lesson with CBER, as we all did. Sometimes, the problem with such lessons is that they leave such a horrible taste in your mouth that you can never enjoy food again. Or discriminate among different foods.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, maybe you should try a new toothbrush

[Angela Freda]

Sadly, you learned a bitter lesson with CBER, as we all did. Sometimes, the problem with such lessons is that they leave such a horrible taste in your mouth that you can never enjoy food again. Or discriminate among different foods.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, maybe you should try a new toothbrush

I know what you are saying, but you are wrong. I have a rescue I work with and in whom I have 200% faith.
I'm not anti-rescue, I'm anti-scam.

[FalseImpression]

I speak to many, many people- have done so for many years and while I won't deny ever speaking with you I will only say that I have no remembrance of any conversation via phone- guess it didn't leave an impression.

I did not expect you to "remember" me except that you called me in Canada regarding a new s/h at the time.. and then you gave my # to John Holland who called me too.

That was the extent of our conversation.

[FalseImpression]

Christy, thank you for coming here and replying to my questions.

I know you put in many hours in the rescue and I would not begrudge you taking a salary. I agree that people have to eat and live. My problem (and I guess it is MY problem) is always the close association with kbs and the fact that we never know what the true price is. Cber did do a lot of damage to other rescues using the same model. Their add on used to be $50/horse, then $150, then $300... so, I am sorry if I am suspicious of any other rescue dealing with traders/kbs.

When you go to an auction and buy a privately owned horse, you may "reward" the owner, but you are usually not putting $ in the pocket of someone who will turn around and buy more horses to bring to slaughter.

When I help (and right now I can't), I try to help a rescue with the day to day expenses, not the purchase of new horses. The ones already rescued need the help too.

Also, I never accused you of living the "high life" and having a mansion!

[snkstacres]

I did not expect you to "remember" me except that you called me in Canada regarding a new s/h at the time.. and then you gave my # to John Holland who called me too.

That was the extent of our conversation.

Well, holy dang. The horse world gets smaller all the time. The name "JOHN HOLLAND" came at me like a bang. I was part of a huge siezure involving John Holland years ago in the Vancouver area. This man had gorgeous horses from Europe and he wouldnt feed them. He is a staple at the auctions, a regular and a man to be reconded with. Ruthless business head. Flags all over the place here.

But on a very very good note, Sunkissed Acres is now the recipient of a subscription to the Chronicle. I am on Cloud 9. I am so excited, beyond words.

Thankyou thankyou thankyou to my secret admirer.

[sid]

What JSwan said. Another very good source of information for non-profit businesses that has been around a long time is "Non Profit Times". They also have an online subscription which is quite reasonable.

[Floridarider]

Well, holy dang. The horse world gets smaller all the time. The name "JOHN HOLLAND" came at me like a bang. I was part of a huge siezure involving John Holland years ago in the Vancouver area. This man had gorgeous horses from Europe and he wouldnt feed them. He is a staple at the auctions, a regular and a man to be reconded with. Ruthless business head. Flags all over the place here.

But on a very very good note, Sunkissed Acres is now the recipient of a subscription to the Chronicle. I am on Cloud 9. I am so excited, beyond words.

Thankyou thankyou thankyou to my secret admirer.

The John Holland we refer to is from Virginia, and has been involved in stopping horse slaughter for many years. He has a small farm with a number of rescue horses and takes excellent care of all of his residents.

[cloudyandcallie]

I am sorry but I think the idea that anyone has some sort of obligation to prove/show how they make their living because they also run a rescue is really messed up. A NPO is obligated to make certain records public and that is that.

agreed. I wonder why people who don't contribute to this rescue are the most vocal about it. They should look at the rescues that they support. And find out about mysterious horse deaths, no run ins and barns, etc.

I contribute until I find out that a rescue is not worthy. I have found out that 2 on coth are questionable based upon my communications with them off of the board. AC4H is NOT one of those 2.

People should look to agencies such as the Red Cross, where a former director was outted for spending 600000 in one year, flying first class. I doubt that any horse rescue person is doing that,
or getting anywhere near that much in donations.

[AC4H]

Christy, thank you for coming here and replying to my questions.

I know you put in many hours in the rescue and I would not begrudge you taking a salary. I agree that people have to eat and live. My problem (and I guess it is MY problem) is always the close association with kbs and the fact that we never know what the true price is. Cber did do a lot of damage to other rescues using the same model. Their add on used to be $50/horse, then $150, then $300... so, I am sorry if I am suspicious of any other rescue dealing with traders/kbs.

When you go to an auction and buy a privately owned horse, you may "reward" the owner, but you are usually not putting $ in the pocket of someone who will turn around and buy more horses to bring to slaughter.

When I help (and right now I can't), I try to help a rescue with the day to day expenses, not the purchase of new horses. The ones already rescued need the help too.

Also, I never accused you of living the "high life" and having a mansion!

I was basically covering the whole scenerio as I have been accused of stuffing our mattress with money and just lately on another forum it was stated that I was living the high life and had expensive cars rotflmao.

We do have and greatly appreciate our hands on volunteers and internet volunteers. The hands on volunteers who we call senior volunteers have been with us a while and really see what we do here and what we sacrifice to do this first hand. I realize not everyone can see that which leads to questions and that there have been some bad apples that hurt "our cause" and ultimately the horses.

Relationships and networking to help the horses are not bad. So because of that we all have to go the extra mile to explain, ensure supporters that their money is going where they want it to go by transperency posting it on the website and sending confirmation, also we have paid to have an independent audit done for the past 2 years.

The whole auction thing though - I have been going to auctions for years and because I have built a relationship with people attending including brokers, kill buyers and auction staff I have been privy to information and also been a witness to how things work. Now it may be different in your area and other areas, I can only speak to what I know.... but around here and in the surrounding states at every main auction there are mostly brokers in attendance and kill buyers. This is actually how I started to do the "broker program" because I could see the truck loads leaving and couldn't help them but wanted to. Then as I learned about the holding area's and that several ship direct to slaughter, I learned that often times they never received the opportunity of "another chance". So even if the only thing I could offer was take pictures, evaluate and do the website work put up the prices they want and offer the horsesadditional time and a larger viewing audience through our website, I/we were doing something to help them....

Anyway back to the point... at the auctions here New Holland, Middleburg, Sugar Creek to name a few.... who attend? Mostly people who buy, sell and kill for a living along with a couple rescue's who make the time to go help.and a handful of private people. For instance New Holland is held on a Monday when most people are at work... see what I mean? Brokers and private people bump their own horses to get a higher price, brokers and kill buyers will sell those horses somewhere (another auction, rescue, private people occasionally and will turn around with those funds and purchase more horses - it's what they do.

Anyway sorry to distract... this thread was to discuss 501c(3)'s and salaries... I do think it is a very interesting topic and again it isn't illegal for non-profits to take a salary or AC agencies either.

Anyone know what organization is who does pay the highest salary? We all know that there are several that don't get paid... just wondering maybe we could all learn something.

[Susan P]

I know John, he is one of 3 people who interview in an online radio program called Howling Ridge Radio. I've gone to DC with him a couple times. He, Vicki Tobin and Elle Nash do the interviews and I think sometimes Amanda Sorvino too, she is the actor Paul Sorvino's daughter. She and Elle also have rescues. Elle is in NJ, Amanda is in PA and John is in VA. Vicki lives in IL. They are all very dedicated to horse and all animal welfare.

The John Holland we refer to is from Virginia, and has been involved in stopping horse slaughter for many years. He has a small farm with a number of rescue horses and takes excellent care of all of his residents.

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

I will present some information from a different side of the coin. Through my involvement with Special Horses (and before that, Secret Santa for Horse Rescues), I was (and continue to be) in contact with many people working for rescues.

The ones we support at Special Horses are ones that we know are bona fide 501(c)3 equine rescue/support organizations. We also know that these are groups that are responsive to their donor base - and if AC4H hasn't been responsive and honest on this thread especially, I can't imagine what else anyone is looking for. We also know the history of these groups and their mission, and we are proud to be able to support them.

The funny thing is, when you start becoming involved, the groups all know each other. The groups we support all support one another - because the ultimate beneficiary, is, of course, the horses.

I know - because I, too, sent money to CBER, for example - that when you donate to a group and the money does not really go to help equines in need, you can become very disheartened. We hope with Special Horses that people feel confident in donating to any one of these terrific organizations.

They are all open and transparent. They will all talk with you (maybe in the middle of being in the trenches!). If you want to know more - all you have to do is ask.

[Susan P]

Considering what the Red Cross salaries are, I hardly think any horse rescue organization can top that. I'm pretty sure that the HSUS top salaries are generous too and I think that is public information and even the interns are paid a small check but they are paid. It's usually the people in the trenches, hands on with the animals that not only don't get paid but will use their own money to save the animals. There's no reason not to ask any rescue, if you catch them in a lie later that's on them.

I think a 501 (c)(3) has a right to hand out salaries to people who put in more than full time work, as it was said, everyone has to eat and have a place to live.

[SuperSTB]

I don't think you can say black&white who gets paid without knowing the group's by-laws. If really does depend on how the rescue is set-up.

However I strongly agree that if the person does WORK they should be compensated. Board of Directors may or may not include people doing physical work for a rescue. I've been involved in situations where the BOD's do the physical work as well as a BOD that merely acted as 'policy makers'.

And if anyone has a few extra bucks (I know not many of us do) but TIER could really use help. My sister and I are there a couple times a week and everytime I leave I just want to cry for someone to give us a winning lottery ticket. Sorry to sidetrack but I can't help it...

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Are you the donkey sisters? Gail raves about how much you help out!!!

[SuperSTB]

Are you the donkey sisters? Gail raves about how much you help out!!!

Yes, that would be us I think if Gail (and myself) didn't have our day jobs interfering, we'd be there a heck of a lot more!

[DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho"]

Gail can't say enough terrific things about the two of you!

[snkstacres]

Whew, sure glad we are not talking about the same John Holland. that came back to me like a slap in the face LOL and I thought I was about to relive a nightmare.

AC4H- there will aways be someone who questions what we do or how we live I suppose. I have two vehicles, old but paid for. I live in a very modest house, crowded with children, I pay my own mortgage on the farm, worry about earning enough to pay the bills and still, people ask me, how do you make your money. I started in the barn at 5 yesterday morning, went to work in the heat all day long, made appts. with the kids afterwards, handled a horses crisis before I got home from the grocery store, headed to the barn to feed at 10'30 last night and got up at 5 again to feed cause, yes, I have to work all day again in this heat. I need to eat too. LOL

I cant please everyone,I have come to accept that and not feel guilty. I can not control everything anyone else does either including volunteers. I give my best, what more can I do.

[Woodland]

Paid employees? Absolutely. Paying the directors? Absolutely not. Reimbursing for out-of-pocket necessary expenses is fine, but otherwise - and JMHO of course - being a director is one of your donations to the nonprofit.

Exactly! In the example i used before I meant director not BOD.

I will continue to donate to the rescues i believe in.

I will continue to rescue on my own in a "for profit" atmosphere. Not meaning that I intend to "profit" from saving an animal from wretched conditions, but rather as part of my business model. When the time and resources are present.

I will not participate in the "begging" for dough to provide a horse - even through a "rescue" - for someone who can not afford it! If you can not afford the "ransom" which is cheap enough you can not afford a horse!