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What constitutes neglect and what are the options?

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  • What constitutes neglect and what are the options?

    I was asked this question tonight.

    Here is the scenario.

    I live in MI. My particular area is not well know for AC that will get involved without really dire circumstances.

    There is a horse at my barn...a 20 something mutt. Previous founder. I believe that the current owners were given the horse. They are rather clueless but seem to like it that way. IE: The vet, a farrier, the BO and I have all had discussions with the owner and owner seems to be pathological...changes the story. I dunno.

    Anyway...horse is boarded. They haven't paid board in some time. Horse is in sort of decent weight...a little light for my liking and probably due to lack of dental care and deworming.

    Bigger problem? Horse foundered at some point for sure...and horse isn't getting its feet done. Like elf feet bad.

    BO is beside herself and ready to just give the boarder notice. BO has already paid to have a farrier out once. Another boarder who is concerned about the horse had her farrier out and offered to pay him to do the horse. He wouldn't touch it.

    It's not the HORSE'S fault that these people are idiots. I can trim. I've looked at his feet and I may not be able to make it a lot better, but I certainly wouldn't make it worse.

    Options right now? Hire the barn farrier again.....and the BO pays for it....but that will be a few more weeks. OR, I can just do it this week and we can all play dumb. I dunno. They hardly ever come out and probably wouldn't notice...but he is hurting. It's bad.

    At what point can someone call that neglect from a legal standpoint? Does anyone know of a way to pursue it in MI? And next....how much of an idiot am I if I just trim him up a little and play stupid? He can hardly walk as it is. I feel like a jerk looking at him and doing nothing.

    I think it's mostly a matter of $$. I will do the danged horse for free. But is it far too much liability? Or would you just do it?
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...

  • #2
    yes that is neglect. It is way beyond the normal accepted standards of animal husbandry.
    But another problem is this horse is not in thier backyard. It is boarded. So the BO holds some responsibility as well to ensure the animal is cared for.
    If she isn't willing to give them notice she needs to ensure the animal is properly cared for.
    Then she needs to gather her receipts and documentation and sue them for back board, farrier bills etc.
    But she cannot let this go on on her place because as long as it does she is equally responsible.
    "Perhaps the final test of anybody's love of dogs is their willingness to permit them to make a camping ground of the bed" -Henry T. Merwin

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    • #3
      Absentee owner that knows nothing that hasn't paid board in months? If you can do a fair job, go ahead and trim him up a bit. And give him a $3 dose of ivermectin. It sounds like the owners wouldn't even notice or care.

      Comment


      • #4
        I agree with shakeytails. If they are that clueless and don't visit they probably won't even notice. Have everyone involved adopt the old "I see nothing, I know nothing" attitude if any questions are asked and just do your best to make the poor guy comfortable.

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        • #5
          BO can seize the horse for back payment. Since the horse isn't worth anything, that should be easy to do. Then you all can gather funds to take care of the horse properly.
          Until the horse is literally on death's bed without food and water, the AC legally can do nothing. The law sucks ass but there you have it.
          Even duct tape can't fix stupid

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          • #6
            Originally posted by LisaB View Post
            BO can seize the horse for back payment. Since the horse isn't worth anything, that should be easy to do. Then you all can gather funds to take care of the horse properly.
            Until the horse is literally on death's bed without food and water, the AC legally can do nothing. The law sucks ass but there you have it.
            Both of these items (taking horses for back board and what constitutes neglect) depend on the state's laws.

            BuddyRoo - I would check out the stableman's liens laws for MI as well as the legal definition of neglect. If the horse meets your legal definition of neglect and the local ACO isn't interested in getting involved, I can give you some tips for helping him get interested in being involved.
            Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

            Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com

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            • Original Poster

              #7
              Thanks guys.

              As a horse person, it's absolutely heart breaking to see him hobbling around. But none of us want to go around breaking the law either. That said, I doubt very much that A) they'd notice if the feet just magically got done because they rarely come out and B) I don't think they have two pennies to rub together to file even a small claim.

              This is the same horse that I saw when I first moved in and kind of raised a stink about. That's when the BO had it done. There's really nothing in her contract that covers this sufficiently.

              I'm digging around in the state laws...and this is just too vague...

              (2) An owner, possessor, or person having the charge or custody of an animal shall not do any of the following:
              (a) Fail to provide an animal with adequate care.
              (f) Willfully or negligently allow any animal, including one who is aged, diseased, maimed, hopelessly sick, disabled, or nonambulatory to suffer unnecessary neglect, torture, or pain.
              A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

              Might be a reason, never an excuse...

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              • #8
                I know it isn't fair in the slightest, but I believe that the BO would be held equally or more responsible than the owners if you do get ACO out to look at the horse. The BO "has care and custody" of the horse. The best route is likely to file a lien against the horse, take the horse in lieu of payment, fix him up and find him a home. I'd bet the owners would sign him over in lieu of payment if the offer were made. Then you all could at least try to find him a better home or put him to sleep if a home that would give him the care necessary for his comfort couldn't be found, or if it were found that the founder never resolved. It does sound like he may not have recovered from the founder. That slipper foot is a symptom of founder damage.
                JMHO,
                Pam
                "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp

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                • #9
                  It's neglect, and while you're checking laws, I would look to see if they can seize the horse for back board or as ptownevt says, put a lien on it.
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                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Agreed...and that may be exactly what happens.

                    But in the meantime as a fellow boarder who happens to have the tools to possibly make this poor guy more comfortable....my question is whether or not to do it. Getting a lien will take weeks or months.

                    Grrr. I mean seriously...I can't go see my horses (who are in the same paddock) and not notice this/not do something....even though I know it's not my responsibility per se. I had made a stink about it when I first moved in...I know about the problem and if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem right?
                    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

                    Might be a reason, never an excuse...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Criminal negligence is just about the same everywhere. They have to not have food and water for x days. The x depends on the state. But since the horse is being fed and water, the AC can do nothing. It might not be ideal food but food nonetheless.

                      This is one horse we just seized (out 10) and I found a fantastically wonderful outfit to take her. They have to basically be in this condition.
                      http://www.equineelders.org/mona
                      Last edited by LisaB; Aug. 11, 2009, 10:40 AM. Reason: added example
                      Even duct tape can't fix stupid

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                      • #12
                        I would contact your local animal control officer and get things documented.
                        If they are lazy about it... which they might be because they are use to dog/cat calls and not horse or livestock calls... be persistent. Once you have documentation from them, they will give you more direction and more leverage to getting a lien on the horse.

                        copied from the Mich. Humane Society Webpage:
                        Report Animal Cruelty - Who to call:
                        The Michigan Humane Society investigates cruelty complaints in our service area of Detroit, Hamtramck and Highland Park. To report suspected animal cruelty in these cities, call our Cruelty Hotline at (313) 872-3401, Monday through Saturday, from 8 a.m to 5 p.m. or leave a detailed message any time. Be sure to leave all the information requested on the voice mail message, including the complaint street address and major cross streets. You can remain anonymous but please include your phone number if possible in case additional information is needed.

                        In other cities, please contact your local animal control/police department which has the authority and responsibility to enforce our state's animal cruelty laws, and any local ordinances, in your area. Search for your local police department phone number.
                        http://dressageesquire.blogspot.com
                        "The ability to write a check for attire should not be confused with expertise. Proficiency doesn't arrive shrink-wrapped from UPS and placed on your doorstep."

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                        • #13
                          Buddyroo, if it were me, I would do it. Sure it's not my horse, but you're not doing anything wrong, and the feet grow back out. I'm like you I couldn't look at the poor horse and NOT be able to do anything, but then it tears at you because it's NOT your horse. I don't see what harm it would do, if anything it sure will help the horse. I know usually people here are saying MYOB but I couldn't, I just couldn't.

                          I'm WAY too soft hearted when it comes to animals as you are too. Can't stand to think of them being hungry, thirsty, cold, hot (can't do anything about that, dang it) or hurting. Wears me out! I like animals a whole lot more than people and it's people creating pain for this animal.
                          I want a signature but I have nothing original to say except: "STHU and RIDE!!!

                          Wonderful COTHER's I've met: belleellis, stefffic, snkstacres and janedoe726.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LisaB View Post
                            Criminal negligence is just about the same everywhere. They have to not have food and water for x days. The x depends on the state. But since the horse is being fed and water, the AC can do nothing. It might not be ideal food but food nonetheless.

                            This is one horse we just seized (out 10) and I found a fantastically wonderful outfit to take her. They have to basically be in this condition.
                            http://www.equineelders.org/mona
                            I've been involved in neglect cases in multiple states for quite some time. Laws vary greatly from state to state - and none of the states I've worked with specify that horses must be without food or water for X days. In fact, Texas' law states that horses must be provided with adequate food, water, and care. (And lack of hoof care can consistute neglect, depending on each county attorney's interpretation of the law and whether or not they wish to take on the case).
                            Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

                            Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com

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                            • #15
                              About the feet; I'd just do it. Not like the owners will notice anytime soon.
                              "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                If the BO doesn't mind if you trim the poor guy's hooves, then I would do it.

                                But in some states, lack of hoofcare is grounds for criminal charges. Now getting AC to do something about it might be easier said than done.

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                                • #17
                                  I would do it, too. But first, I would take before photos just in case they would be needed as evidence later on.
                                  A Merrick N Dream Farm
                                  Proud Member of "Someone Special to me serves in the Military" Clique

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                                  • #18
                                    Good to know cowgirljenn! After this case, I'm about to go postal. Bitch got 1500 fine and 2 years ban from owning livestock and paying expenses to rehab the horses. Max is 1 year and jail on top of that but she didn't get it. She disgusts me and our laws suck. A stallion was locked in an enclosed trailer for a month with a festering leg scratch too. And that's all she gets. AC is pressing other charges on top of the cruelty.
                                    I also wish we actually had a national database of horse ownership. Stealing is a lot worse offense in this state than starving them to death.
                                    I know in CA at the time I was there and in NC, MD, PA, WV, you have not have given them food or water for days before AC could do anything.
                                    Even duct tape can't fix stupid

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