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When is rescue out of the frying pan into the fire?

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  • When is rescue out of the frying pan into the fire?

    I am deeply committed to helping horses in any and every way I can. It was out of this spirit that I became involved with a rescue in the northwest a few years ago. I first saw that "rescue" on this site. Over the few years that I was involved, it became very common practice for people all over the country and beyond to donate money to pay for a horse that was then given free of charge to someone who said they would take the horse if it was paid for. I believe that in some of these cases the horses went to good homes, however, not always. There were at least three documented cases, two hoarders and one sexual pervert, where individuals received many free horses to neglect and abuse. When some of us questioned certain practices and placements we were attacked and accused of not caring about the horses. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I know that many of you know the rescue I am talking about and I don't want this thread to become a bashing of any particular organization, just a caution to good-hearted people who honestly want to help horses in need.

    The issue for me is not necessarily that someone is getting a horse for free (we all know there's no such thing as a free horse) or that the recipient of the horse might at some point sell the horse. Rescue requires income to fund their continuing work. It is the background, motivations, and qualifications of the person taking the horse that matters to me. So, when I see someone offering to take a horse if it is paid for my other folks I worry. I would need to see a reputable established rescue acting as a mediator that would very carefully screen all potential homes before giving a horse to anyone. I would also need to see some clear documentation of their policies and procedures to be absolutely sure that I wasn't helping some poor creature out of the frying pan into the fire.

    Pam
    "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp

  • #2
    I hope this thread can stay civil and stay open.

    Trying to be vague here, but I know of two individuals in my area who have "rescued" horses, but can't afford to keep them. The horses are skinny because they can't afford the special feed they need; they're lame and the owners can't afford the vet. And the topper is they'll never sell the horses, because "they might end up in a bad home."

    Comment


    • #3
      I think any org. [horse or not] has to be open to the voice of the public providing support or potentially providing support [and support is not always $$ by the way]. When they stop listening and discussing issues, it's like they are putting their fingers in their ears and singin' 'La, La, La' and that gets noticed.
      Even rescues who've been doin' for a while can learn something, evolve, and should consider alternate options. It's basic Marketing 101- and rescues ARE businesses.

      You can't help horses if the public that supports you thinks [whether true or not] that you are not interested in their POV and input, as well as open and forthcoming.
      Lose your audience, lose your support, and then the horses lose.
      Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

      http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

      Comment


      • #4
        I am in Idaho and I think I know which rescue you're talking about as well. Here in my little corner of the world we often see people take on horses that need a whole lot more than they can afford to provide. Just because you have an empty pasture doesn't necessarily mean that you should have a horse in it.

        I do dog rescue and am often called on to defend my policy of home checks and reference checks by people who "just want to save a life and don't appreciate the wait/hassle" of my application process. I am very strict about my requirements. During my years as foster program coordinator for the regional humane society, I saw many dogs walk out of the shelter with the first person willing to pay the $65 fee and I saw many of them walk right back in emaciated and sometimes injured when the adopter couldn't handle the responsibility of providing food and vet care on a regular basis.

        I belong to an internet forum for "my" breed of dog and I am always concerned when I see the same person over and over again posting that they can take any dog in need that is posted as urgently needing out of a shelter. Oh, and P.S.... They need door to door transport and the pull fee paid because they just don't have the funds due to (fill in the blank). And for every post asking for someone to do a home check in person for this "rescue", there are three of four that praise the woman for saving another soulful dog in need. They even have little angel icons to sprinkle throughout their posts of support. This happens over and over again in a cycle. Different people, but same scenario every time.

        So, yes, I totally believe that an animal can go from frying pan to fire in the blink of an eye.
        Sheilah

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        • #5
          an animal can go from frying pan to fire in the blink of an eye
          proven. over and over and over again. :-(

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ptownevt View Post
            Rescue requires income to fund their continuing work. It is the background, motivations, and qualifications of the person taking the horse that matters to me. So, when I see someone offering to take a horse if it is paid for my other folks I worry. I would need to see a reputable established rescue acting as a mediator that would very carefully screen all potential homes before giving a horse to anyone. I would also need to see some clear documentation of their policies and procedures to be absolutely sure that I wasn't helping some poor creature out of the frying pan into the fire.
            Pam
            Pam, you make some very good points here. I think having a rescue acting as a "mediator" of sorts is a great idea and could possibly work if all involved were organized and truly committed to helping the horses. However, if someone is getting involved in rescue thinking they can make money, then their heart isn't really in the right place to begin with.

            I also agree with you about rescues needing clear documentation and not making things up as they go along. If a rescue has nothing to hide, they should have no issues with putting everything out in the open. I no longer donate to rescues unless I feel certain they really are in it for the horses.
            Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
            http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
            http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ptownevt View Post
              The issue for me is not necessarily that someone is getting a horse for free (we all know there's no such thing as a free horse) or that the recipient of the horse might at some point sell the horse........

              So, when I see someone offering to take a horse if it is paid for my other folks I worry.

              Pam
              Pam I am sorry to para phrase you - but these points are crucial to your opening statement!

              People will take anything for free Absolutely ANYTHING! Never thinking of the long term costs. This is not a gas dryer it is a horse. And in my book if you can not afford to buy it then you can not afford to keep it up either!

              Today - just moments ago i unloaded from my trailer a terrified mustang mare. Years off of the range yet the abuse and neglect she has suffered at the hands of those unwilling to learn and unable to maintain have made her a MESS!

              WHY was she bought originally? Because she was only $125!!!The buyers were RENTERS. When they got evicted she bounced as they bounced from place to place. They knew NOTHING about horses much less a feral mustang The BLM did not follow ups or preplacement screening and now she is here at sanctuary 8 YEARS off the range. It took 3cc of rompun and 30 mins + 4 people just to load her she is TERRIFIED!

              She has never been stalled - apparent today when she FREAKED in her new deeply bedded 10 X 14 - so to keep her from hurting herself she is loose in my indoor.

              Then I see people asking for a hand out so they can adopt It's not right! Heck join the unwanted horse coalition - no regulation and people beating a path to your door to unload unwanted animals!

              My last Coth "giveaway" cost me $4300 in less than 6 mos to repair his undiagnosed broken hip. He is now outplaced in permanent retirement. I could afford to do it - without begging for donations. Numerous times I had wanted to put him down - only to have the vet beg me to stick with it. I go and physically check on him every month. When I was trying to place him i had NUMEROUS people who wanted him because he was "free". Even when confronted with upkeep costs people begged for him. Fortunately I was careful and he did not go to the guy living on SSI or the lady on unemployment who was losing her home or the numerous novices that applied to "own" him.

              I CRINGE when i see threads like that TB now MIA thread. You can not possibly save them all. And I refuse to try and "save one" for someone who has no business owning a horse! Knowing that within x amount of time I will be likely called to investigate a horribly thin gray horse behind the junk pile in the barbed wire enclosure along that country lane. Happens every freaking day! Not saying that the person wanting the $$ to "save" him could not afford his up keep - but come on if you don't have the $800 measly $ to buy him why do want him? Besides he is cute - that is not a reason - not reason enough. It's like teenagers having babies just because they can ....
              "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"

              Comment


              • #8
                Then I see people asking for a hand out so they can adopt
                That's what blew my mind a while back about someone getting others to raise money for them so they could transport a rescue horse halfway across the country. Don't remember if the included the adoption fee or not. I just can't fathom....if you don't have the money to get the horse, you don't have the money to keep it, IMHO.
                The Trials and Jubilations of a Twenty-Something Re-rider
                Happy owner of Kieran the mostly-white-very-large-not-pony.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by analise View Post
                  That's what blew my mind a while back about someone getting others to raise money for them so they could transport a rescue horse halfway across the country. Don't remember if the included the adoption fee or not. I just can't fathom....if you don't have the money to get the horse, you don't have the money to keep it, IMHO.
                  And I dare you to show me a Craigslist with not one horse listed at a price that a broker or kill buyer would not find attractive. If you go buy/'save' that horse you ARE making a difference for that one horse. If done locally rather than across this large country you spare donations to go towards another horse and isn't 'saving' more better than less?

                  If you're using your own money to buy and ship the horse, knock yourself out, but what rescue can even monitor the situation/scope out your place if the horse goes that far away?
                  Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                  http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Woodland good for you for helping that BLM mare- what a shame.

                    I learned the 'people only value things they pay for' when I free-leased my horse. *sigh*
                    It is so true!
                    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I dont get it, how can a rescue operate if they "give the horses away." I do have a set adoption fee, I dont always charge it though. Sometimes, I have nothing into a healthy animal and I will place it for a smaller donation. Sadly, its the ones I have tons of money into that nobody wants and if they had to pay what I have into them, for sure they wouldnt be adopted.

                      I agree, people dont place much value in things they get for free although, I want to meet the first free horse.
                      Our horses are not seen as the old and disabled they may have become, but rather as the mighty steeds they once believed themselves to be.

                      Sunkissed Acres Rescue and Retirement

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Snkstacres, I think you should charge something closer to what the horse is worth. If, by some strange chance, you find yourself with a nice, sound, trained horse why not let it help the others by charging more for it? I have adopted horses from rescues twice and they both charged less than the going market price but did differentiate prices based on what the horse was worth. I really do not understand the mentality that thinks that rescues should take the horses in, rehab them on their dime and then give them away. How in the world would they continue if they did that? The only folks that could do rescue would be the independently very, very wealthy.

                        And maybe if rescues charged something more in line with the horse's worth people would be less prejudiced against rescue horses. Maybe the low prices attract those that can least afford a horse and give others the impression that the horses aren't worth their time.

                        Just some thoughts,
                        Pam
                        "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ptownevt View Post
                          Snkstacres, I think you should charge something closer to what the horse is worth. If, by some strange chance, you find yourself with a nice, sound, trained horse why not let it help the others by charging more for it? I have adopted horses from rescues twice and they both charged less than the going market price but did differentiate prices based on what the horse was worth. I really do not understand the mentality that thinks that rescues should take the horses in, rehab them on their dime and then give them away. How in the world would they continue if they did that? The only folks that could do rescue would be the independently very, very wealthy.

                          And maybe if rescues charged something more in line with the horse's worth people would be less prejudiced against rescue horses. Maybe the low prices attract those that can least afford a horse and give others the impression that the horses aren't worth their time.

                          Just some thoughts,
                          Pam
                          On the other hand, why would someone buy a horse from a rescue, a horse they really won't own, as they are under contract with the rescue as how to dispose of the horse if something didn't work?

                          Many do because they can get the horse cheaper than on the regular market.

                          It is hard for a rescue to rescue a horse and sell it down the road, to maybe end up again in trouble some years later.
                          To retain control, they do well not to charge so much that people go somewhere else to get a horse they then truly own.

                          There are no easy answers.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Bluey you're right that there are no real answers.

                            I do want to point out some rescues do not hold a lifetime ownership. Some contracts evolve into a first right of refusal situation or other situation.

                            I think ptown has an interesting point about the perception of 'rescue' horses as 'not great horses' perhaps in a way being tied to the low adoption fee, and perhaps attracting the people who are less likely to afford the high Vet bills etc. It is a conundrum.

                            My friend adopted a lovely mare form the rescue I volunteer for. This mare cost her next to nothing to adopt, has had the best of everything, and is showing and doing fabulously. It's a wonderful thing to have a horse like that out there spreading the rescues name and showing what one can find in a rescue if the horses are evaluated properly. Not to mention an adopter who can see the potential and has the means and skills to take the horse to that potential.
                            Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                            http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
                              Bluey you're right that there are no real answers.

                              I do want to point out some rescues do not hold a lifetime ownership. Some contracts evolve into a first right of refusal situation or other situation.

                              I think ptown has an interesting point about the perception of 'rescue' horses as 'not great horses' perhaps in a way being tied to the low adoption fee, and perhaps attracting the people who are less likely to afford the high Vet bills etc. It is a conundrum.

                              My friend adopted a lovely mare form the rescue I volunteer for. This mare cost her next to nothing to adopt, has had the best of everything, and is showing and doing fabulously. It's a wonderful thing to have a horse like that out there spreading the rescues name and showing what one can find in a rescue if the horses are evaluated properly. Not to mention an adopter who can see the potential and has the means and skills to take the horse to that potential.
                              If I remember well, at one time, long ago, we had in little open local shows a class for rescued horses, that at that time meant really, truly horses someone got out of a bad situation, not just bought them from a dealer.

                              It was a fun class, no placing, just participation ribbons.
                              They didn't have to do much but show up, ride around while the announcer told each story and let all admire the horses.

                              I think such classes today could be used as publicity for local rescues.

                              I always thought that was such a neat idea.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                For one of our local barns rescue show I tried to start an award for the OTTB with the highest points at the show- a trophy or a cooler or something.
                                Alas there was very little interest from the organizers.
                                Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                                http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  between all the insurance, permits and liability wranglings holding nice little shows and things like that are such a hassle no one wants to bother
                                  I Loff My Quarter Horse & I love Fenway Bartholomule cliques

                                  Just somebody with a positive outlook on life...go ahead...hate me for that.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                    On the other hand, why would someone buy a horse from a rescue, a horse they really won't own, as they are under contract with the rescue as how to dispose of the horse if something didn't work?

                                    Many do because they can get the horse cheaper than on the regular market.

                                    It is hard for a rescue to rescue a horse and sell it down the road, to maybe end up again in trouble some years later.
                                    To retain control, they do well not to charge so much that people go somewhere else to get a horse they then truly own.
                                    That's how we look at it. Not everyone wants a rescue horse - some want to be able to breed, some want to be able to resell, some don't like restrictions and screening. To make our horses more attractive, we make sure they're vetted (teeth floated, coggins, and VEWT, Flu/rhino, rabies and WNV in the past 12 months), current on de-worming and farrier care and at a good weight. And then we set their fee somewhat below fair market value. We've had fees as high as $1,000 (horse went on to be a saddleseat eq. horse and WON) and we've waived fees for horses who cannot be ridden or have very special needs.

                                    I don't think the fee being too low is what necessarily gives rescue horses in general a bad name. I think that it is because too many people out there coddle their rescue and don't expect him or her to do anything. Not us - we send horses to training (as funds allow) and have horses doing endurance, 4-h, dressage, pony club events, working cattle, trial riding and driving. AND we're putting together a slide show/CD show to showcase those horses and their accomplishments.

                                    We (as a rescue community) need to show the world that rescue horses are not always "used up and worthless" - but we have to do that by showing off the horses DOING something. AND we have to be smart about our placements - I've seen rescues who won't allow horses to be shown, do barrel racing, work cattle or whatever. We work to place our horses into good, suitable homes - but we don't outlaw/ban any one particular sport. For instance, I didn't want to place our saddleseat American Saddlebred into a barrel racing home, as that wasn't a good fit for him. BUT I had other horses who would enjoy that - and they were promoted for that.
                                    Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

                                    Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Jenn -

                                      I was just thinking of you! Hope everything is ok.
                                      Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                                      Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                                      -Rudyard Kipling

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by JSwan View Post
                                        Jenn -

                                        I was just thinking of you! Hope everything is ok.
                                        Thanks. We took the weekend off to go to Corpus Christi and do very UNhorsey stuff. After taking care of my mom, I needed a few days when I was NOT responsible for anyone but myself. And my husband needed a few non-horsey days.

                                        Now I'm back to work. And hopefully will have some -very- exciting rescue news to share later today. I hope!
                                        Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

                                        Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com

                                        Comment

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