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Euthanizing Healthy Horses - What do you think?

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  • #61
    My vet will NOT euthanize a healthy horse despite the circumstances. That's it period. Their oath I believe is "do no harm" and in an healthy animal, euthanizing is definitely doing harm, drastic harm. I can't shoot my pet..sorry, some can, but I cannot. I would have to hire someone for that. Maybe that can be a "new" profession - but not one that I would want.

    We have discussed this and that is his position which I respect totally. If I cannot find a home for my horses that are healthy and sound..well. there ya go..

    What now? That's been my question for months? If you can't put them down, where do they go??????? No one has an answer.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by hundredacres View Post
      I can't believe a vet would not euthanize a healthy horse. They euthanize healthy dogs and cats every single day -- at least all of the vets in my area do because they all volunteer their time at the animal shelter. I must be fortunate in that my vet never questions my decision (I've had to euthanize 3 horses in the last few years...) - he understands that sometimes it is the most humane thing to do.

      This reminds me though - when I was about 22 I had a cat who had kidney problems. After 2 weeks in the clinic and a vet bill that I had to put on a credit card (I think it was over a thousand dollars), the cat came home. A week later he developed a liver disease. He went back to the clinic for a week......and they sent him home with me and said "Just see how he does. We can't do anything more". I brought the cat home, he was YELLOW (his paws, ears, tongue) and puking up green stuff while walking circles. I couldn't take it. I drove back to the clinic and asked that they euthanize him. They gave me SO much grief.......I will never forget those ha=eartless people and that vet who made ME out to be the bad guy. They wouldn't even let me be there for the procedure - he said I didn't deserve to be there. The jerk.

      Those kinds of vets should be in social services. Not medicine. It isn't their call.
      Oh, there are increasing numbers of small animal vets who will tell you 'up front' that they don't do euthanasia under any circumstances. Why they get away with that I don't know, I consider it unethical.

      Advances in veterinary medicine are terrific for both our large animals and our small animals. If Ruffian hadn't had her tragedy, Barbara would probably not still be with us. Whatever Barbaro's outcome, his case has already provided much insight to save a lot of future horses.

      The ugly flip side of these advances is that some vets would rather 'treat' your animal and get the money for it. For them, (sorry to sound so cynical but...) euthanasia often means loss of a revenue stream.

      A family of average means should not be forced to spend thousands on a dog, or a horse, when euthanasia IS a kind and viable option. I won't do business with any vet who will not respect my decision as to the right time to euthanise my beloved animals.

      Comment


      • #63
        Reading this topic and some others on here sure makes me appreciate my vets. They are a three vet clinic and all of them are very credible, down to earth, realistic, sympathetic horse vets. They might voice an opinion if asked for one, but all three believe that their customer's wishes come first. I believe it's called professionalism. After reading this topic, it seems that some vets are letting their emotions overrule their professionalism. Furthermore my vets always have someone on call, night and day, no matter what is happening. I've had to call them out on occasion in the middle of the night and they never hesitated even though they are nearly an hour away.

        Thanks for making me love my vets all over again !
        Susan N.

        Don't get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am, my attitude depends on who you are.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Beverley View Post
          A family of average means should not be forced to spend thousands on a dog, or a horse, when euthanasia IS a kind and viable option. I won't do business with any vet who will not respect my decision as to the right time to euthanise my beloved animals.
          Yep. And I interviewed my vet before I opened an account there. I asked him point blank if he would respect my wishes if I asked him to euthanize an animal that I felt was beyond my means to repair and he said yes.
          This came about after I was asked to release ownership of a cat that needed an amputation, due to a crushed leg. I had had her for several years before the accident and I still believe I was blackmailed into the resulting $800 vet bill. Now I have an ancient, cranky cat that keeps falling off the furniture.
          DON'T MAKE ME COME DOWN THERE!!! - God

          Comment


          • #65
            in my estate plan i direct that any animal i own at the time of my death be euthanized - and additional language to ensure that any necessary monies be spent to ensure that is done - even if it results in less of an inheiritance to my human beneficiaries.

            humane? perhaps not to some. but having seen, and have to deal with, estates in which animals were not provided for - i won't risk that with my animals - horses included.

            so if healthy horses can't be slaughtered, and you can't even give them away, rescues are full, you're dying of cancer, lost your job, or have had some other personal or financial disaster - exactly what are people supposed to do?

            i'd rather the animal be put down. lesser of two evils.
            Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
            Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
            -Rudyard Kipling

            Comment


            • #66
              Personally I think killing a healthy animal just to get rid of it is rather disgusting especially those that can be used for food and hides. Why I'm not fond of H.S. they exist basically to kill off millions of cats and dogs. When I worked at the rendering plant and saw bags of them dumped into the grinder I always thought how sad there killed off just to be ground up.
              Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

              Comment


              • #67
                County,
                It is disgusting. But where would they have all gone? Would there have been good homes for them? I doubt it--not for all of them.

                Our throw-away society created this problem, and still acts all astounded: "I never thought that any of those puppies from my dog's last seven litters would have ended up at the pound! How was I to know??" How indeed....

                This is the same thing in the horse world, only I think small animal rescue is a bit farther along, since we are not shipping cat and dog steak to Korea. But it's the same--until everyone is a responsible owner, are there ever going to be enough homes? I don't know.
                "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." -Don Marquis
                **CEO of the TQ "Learn How To Ride or MOVE OVER!!" Clique**

                Comment


                • #68
                  I look at it from what I feel is the horses veiw. If iu'm a horse and am given the choice between a chance at a good home or death I'll take the chance at a good home. Will they all get one? Very doubtful bit I'd still take that chance over being killed because I " might " end up in a less then great home.
                  Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    I'd rather send my beloved horses to Heaven under my care and scatter their ashes over my garden. I like to the idea of putting in my will that our horses are to be sent over to be with us.
                    Will get a dream horse!
                    More riding, swimming, and rowing, less posting

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Article after article has been written in veterinary publications in contempt of companion animals owners who ask veterinarians to euthanize their pets when they no longer want them. That request is different than euthanizing one which has become dangerous to itself or humans or is in pain or declining health.

                      So, if slaughter is banned the new bad guys are the large animal veterinarians who refuse to euthanize a "perfectly healthy horse".

                      What in the hell do you think your veterinarian is made of? Do you think for one nanno second a euthanasia is "easy"? Neccesary at times and often a blessing, it is a skill which requires yearly CEC and a federal license to keep the drugs on hand. To ask them to become the new gatekeepers of of the horse population is BS.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by 3fatponies View Post
                        I am not saying you are wrong for feeling that, but what's the answer? For the person who says they can't afford training, or board, or care and cannot find an immediate buyer--what are their options? Not being confrontational, but the issue of who is going to take these horses is a valid one. I've been spanked on this board more than once for telling people they are selfish for passing along their problems, but my concern is valid: where are all these horses to go? I don't believe there are enough homes for them, but I hope I am wrong....
                        The answer? There isn't one. It's a shitty deal all around and sometimes we have to make the bad choice versus the worse choices. What those "worse choices" might be often depend more on our own fears and prejudices than any objective reality. Then we have to proceed to muck it up even more with the delusion that "our" choice is somehow inherently more "right" than the next person's and we should be able to control what the next person does. May the horse gods forgive us all.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          It is a crime...

                          Originally posted by county View Post
                          Personally I think killing a healthy animal just to get rid of it is rather disgusting especially those that can be used for food and hides. Why I'm not fond of H.S. they exist basically to kill off millions of cats and dogs. When I worked at the rendering plant and saw bags of them dumped into the grinder I always thought how sad there killed off just to be ground up.
                          But it presists because people insist breeding mutts, Like Snoodles Daisy Dogs Labra doodles Etc Etc Etc. And the so called caring pet owner that thinks that Spaying or neutering is Cruel and unnatural so there dog , cat etc roams around breeding every other intact specimen. Oops Sorry, This is not horse related. But then how many horse people out there are breeding just cause they have a mare??? God what makes me type this stuff???

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Thing is I've yet to meet anyone that feels there breeding mutts. Just look at examples on this board I've been told my horses aren't worth breeding because I don't sell them for as much money as others thing a horse should be sold for. I assure you I think those people are trolls and could care less what they think. Myself I like the horses I breed very much I'm going to care less what someone else thinks of them. I don't know anyone that feels diferantly.
                            Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              I know many people who are just breeding because they have a mare, or one who breeds a ton of junk, because they had a stallion and a mare, and "what else would you do?" Like not breed that utter junk....

                              Out here, there have been stories of horses left tied to a tree in the national forest - apparently some butt head who can't even shoot one reliably just leaves it like that poor goat in Jurassic Park, until the cats can find it. Or I have read now of at least two incidents where horses have been found tied to a pole in downtown Redmond, Oregon. Abandoned.

                              Some people here aren't even bothering with slaughter..or euthansia via vet...or euthanasia via a well placed bullet. Just dumping them, either to be killed elsewhere or to "run free"... There is a whole big mentality that says "when I can't afford to feed it, and no one wants to take it, even though I didn't try all that hard, this horse is outta here." Hard core don't give a rat's as* animal owners.

                              We'll achieve world peace and make first contact with alien life forms before that sort of thing will end. Guaranteed.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #75
                                Originally posted by TripleRipple View Post
                                Out here, there have been stories of horses left tied to a tree in the national forest - apparently some butt head who can't even shoot one reliably just leaves it like that poor goat in Jurassic Park, until the cats can find it. Or I have read now of at least two incidents where horses have been found tied to a pole in downtown Redmond, Oregon. Abandoned.
                                Our rescue has a few of those abandoned horses. The previous rescue I worked in had some, too - one was just left tied to a fence (but someone witnessed the guy unloading her on quiet country road and tying her to the fence. So a deputy paid him a little visit - poor mare was in awful shape, too).
                                Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

                                Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by 3fatponies View Post
                                  Honestly, I think it's fine. If slaughter is banned, I think vets may have to rethink their position. A quick death is not as bad as some other alternatives, and I think it will put the responsibility squarely where it belongs: on the owner.
                                  Personally I hope to goodness that rather than vets rethinking their position, that owners will seriously rethink their position and give consideration to whether they can keep a horse for life or not BEFORE they get one. I feel strongly that its owners who are responsible for the mess that a lot of horses end up in and they expect vets and others to sort out their dirty work for them.

                                  Of course its abhorant that owners dump or starve or mistreat horses rather than taking full responsibility for them but I think its not right to expect a vet whose code of ethical conduct requires him to care for animals to clean up because they've decided they no longer want the animal and can't sell it or give it away.

                                  Heck its a healthy horse we're talking about and its shameful if we start to shoot them and dump them as though they're old washing machines!

                                  (And I do take a totally different view when it comes to horses that are not fit and healthy.)

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    I fully support euthanizing healthy animals IF a reasonable effort has been made to rehome them, and failed.

                                    I tell all my rescue cats that this home is for the rest of your life. And when your quality of life declines, or I can not longer care for you in the way you need, I will provide humane euthanasia. I have pulled numerous animals out of kills shelters that were supposedly "unadoptable" - BAH! On the other hand, I have euthanized some few of my beloved animals. And I am about to face this decision yet again for my 17 year old DSH. She hates other cats, fights, pees, etc. Too aged to live outside, can't live with other cats. Not a lap cat. Who wants an old single cat? Let me tell you- I can't even find a home for a foster kitten right now who loves EVERYONE- a CUTE CUDDLEY KITTEN who is altered and vac'd etc. There are not enough homes. And I do believe, like Prieta, that I am sending them someplace better.

                                    My horse, while he is an angel to ride in the ring, has managmenet issues. That cost $$. If I were unable to care for him, and could not find among my friends one who would asure him the life he has EARNED, (with the bodies broken down by use in our names....) I will euthanize him.

                                    I do believe that the worst case euthanasia at home (struggling, missed veins, whatever) is better then DAYS on a trailer, and questionable surroundings. A guarenteed last meal, last kiss, whatever. It does mean something.

                                    There was a documentary on HBO in the last 6 months on a dog rescue. And the owner faced putting dogs down, one in particular. ANd her routine was to bring them to Mcdonalds for chikcen nuggets right at the end, because despite all the bad things that had happened, they still enjoyed that. Whether they feared people, whatever, they enjoyed it. And then she would go home to her own dogs, all shelter pulls, and tell them what about THEM made her choose them. Their stories.

                                    I don't think rescues should bear this burden, but this board has provided many options (humane renderers, hunt clubs, zoos, etc) that I'm not sure it's nessecary.

                                    Not enough homes.
                                    Do not take anything to heart. Do not hanker after signs of progress. Founder of the Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      I'm trying to outline a typical timeline for a horse headed to the slaughterhouse vs. euthanasia at home...

                                      Euthanasia:
                                      Maybe 2-3 hrs? Vet arrives, owner and vet talk, set-up horse, inject, wait a few moments, done.

                                      Slaughter house:
                                      Bring to auction transportation maybe 1-2 hrs.
                                      Time at sale 6-12 hrs.
                                      Load up on truck and ship to kill pens- couple hours. (Some horses end up going to the next auction thus more time...)
                                      Time spent in kill pens- clearly a day or 2.
                                      transport to slaughter house (given there is only 3) could take 8-16 hrs or more.
                                      Time unloading to time of bolt gun- hour or 2 at best?

                                      We're looking at a couple days of stress to horses used to at least 2 sq meals w/ grain, decent hay, and water... probably a stall or at least a run in, typically not loose stock loaded during travel, and certainly not herd turnout where every other horse is stressed and in the same situation.

                                      Even if horse was sound as a dollar- I'd take first option every time. A couple hundred bucks spent vs. a couple hundred in my pocket- that's where my morals stands. But hey- to each his own...

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        A completely healthy horse euthanized...

                                        It goes against my emotional stances, but logically... what other options are there if attempts at homing have been made unsuccessfully? Frankly, right now, I have 2, 100% sound horse for sale, and 2 80% sound horses for sale. I cant get a friggin nibble that's serious on any of them. Would I drop their prices so I can compete with the killer-buyers? Nope. Won't take that chance with them. (And we are talking I'm so negotiable in my head on these guys that if the right home was found I'd GIVE them to someone who WANTED to offer a lifetime home. So I'm not just being picky over dollars here.)

                                        While I am NOT considering euthanasia for these horses... the thought has crossed my mind as to what I would do if they were the only horses I owned, and I found myself suddenly unable to provide for them. No home lined up... there's only one option in my mind.

                                        We euthanize thousands of dogs and cats each year -- often at the tax-payers' expense. Some will argue whether that is kosher or not. But, what makes a horse any different?

                                        If a horse is not finding a new home for whatever reason, and the owner must part with it for whatever reason, other than cutting short a lifespan... is there harm in a euthanization? Does the horse suffer from being quietly put down?

                                        And while I love all the vets I have been blessed with in my lifetime, I cannot imagine any of them protesting about putting something down without offering to solve the problem if they were truely against the act. IE "Hey, this kitten is so perfect for a home. So it pees in your house, but I have this friend with a farm. Let me take the cat off your hands." or even, "Give me a week or two to see if I can find another solution for you."

                                        In the above, I can't imagine any horse owner protesting about a vet-approved home for whatever animal they are discussing.

                                        So, CowGirlJenn... I support your initial inquiry. If it is the only solution, then yes, we should endorse it and not criticize for it.
                                        Standing WDA Orion -- Straight Egyptian and Al Khamsa Arabian
                                        http://www.dedaananwarmbloods.com

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          No matter what decision any owner makes, whether it be to euthanize a horse rather than let it suffer, to re-home a horse due to other factors, to send it to auction, etc, there are going to be people out there who judge their decision and actions.

                                          Believe me, I know. Some of them, when the decision to euthanize an elder horse due to various factors, will condemn that persons decision and be hurtful about it. I have yet to met a vet who with euthanize an otherwise healthy horse because an owner wants it, it needs to be backed up by fact.

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