VENTING! - very long

[jetsmom]

Pull your stirrups off your saddle and work at the lower jumps, working on you until you go back to school.

[ItchyRichie]

Well, I guess I am just a bit bummed out because my trainer from school told me that I should be doing 3'3" at least by the end of the summer and I know that I'm perfectly capable of it but I'm not getting a fair chance to even jump 3'. Everyone goes on a break in 2 weeks and the last horse show of the summer is tomorrow so I didn't get to do anything close to what I wanted even though everything went perfectly. I'm just disappointed really but I'm over it.

Excited to show him in pre-children's eq and hunters tomorrow!
I took him out bareback on the trails today and he was a good boy

[mvp]

Do what the owner of the horse wants you to do, regardless of what you think, you'd like, your resident pro thinks, etc.

I can see good reasons to jump little until the horse is really broke-- why put milage on his legs if it won't teach him something useful?

Your pro might have that philosophy in mind, or really not know how to teach horses and riders to jump bigger. The advent of the 2'6" horse opens up the profession of horse training to a much bigger range of people who would like to hang out their shingle.

If, however, the owner of the horse tell you to stay small, you must respect that. It's great that you want to jump bigger. When you are paying for the horse and vet care to do that, then you can determine the height of the fences.

[ItchyRichie]

Go ahead and vent and then remember what you've told us:

The horse has issues above 3 feet.
The horse frequently doesn't get his distance right at 3 feet.
The horse is too strong for hunters at 2'6".

All of these comments talk about a horse that is still very green, and it is better to to stay lower where he's comfortable at this point. If he's strong at 2'6" this might even be lower than what you are showing, even though you "don't care". You also comment:

You are not a professional.
You are pretty young and although you are game and eager, you might not have the experience to judge all these things the way your trainer does.
It's not your horse.

And these last comments tell us that other people with more experience are asking you to be more cautious.

I think ranting about your frustration here is a good way to get the energy worked out so you can go back and cope with the limits that everyone, including the horse you are riding, are telling you to stick to.

He is a little strong at 2'6", honestly. I had never jumped him in anything other then a plain dee ring and when I tried a different bit he was no longer strong so I guess I used the term strong loosely.
I really wanted to do high-schoolings because I thought it would be the only 3' class where he would not be out of his element.

I just feel like in the beginning of the summer I was thinking, "I'll do 2'6" for awhile just to get him happy and comfortable and go easy for awhile" and 2 months later I'm still doing the exact same thing. But like I said in a recent post, I'm over it.

Thanks for understanding why I posted this though

[ItchyRichie]

Pull your stirrups off your saddle and work at the lower jumps, working on you until you go back to school.

good idea! I ride him bareback a lot but haven't jumped him bareback. Maybe I'll just take my stirrups off next lesson.

[HenryisBlaisin']

My 2 cents, FWIW...My rule of thumb is that you should be schooling 6" or one level higher than you are showing. I've switched to mostly dressage, so lately for me that means I'm schooling some training/mostly first level-and showing at intro. I've been riding for almost 30 years, but that's the level my horse is at.

For jumping, I want to be consistently junping 6" higher at home than at a show-so if he's consistent at 3', showing over 2'6" (and I don't jump that high anymore!). If he's pulling rails at 3'6", IMO, he's not quite ready to show at 3'. If he's consistent at 3'3" and not having any form issues or pulling rails, then showing at 2'9" would be the next step. That might be old-fashioned thinking these days, but that's how I was brought up.

I agree it's not right that your trainer won't let you progress at home-perhaps he's afraid of a horse that doesn't belong to you getting hurt and not wanting to be responsible for that? But in the meantime, as people have suggested, work on the little things that will make your riding really outstanding when you get back to school-jumping without stirrups or bareback (start with crossrails if you haven't jumped bareback before) and also without reins. Work on some dressage with him, maybe try some prix caprilli (dressage with jumps)-it will only make him more responsive in the jumping ring and better when you take him to horse trials.

[BeastieSlave]

I have to agree with the folks who are advising you to wait. It's clear that you aren't going to get any help/support over larger fences at home. If you spend your time working on the things like gymnastics, finding distances and improving control over lower fences, you'll be ready to really nail 3' stuff when you get back to school. IMHO, if you have everything working in between, the jumps will take care of themselves - no matter what size they are.

I'm sure it is frustrating, hopefully your coach at school will understand that you didn't have help at home and will appreciate the work you are putting in at 2'6".

[Alagirl]

and have fun with different looks of the fences. Somebody posted a couple of really nice jumps, decorated with tiki stuff and balloons...can't hurt to get the brain used to that sort of stuff either...

[Adamantane]

I recognize the very awkward politics and professional relationship between trainers here before I post my question.

If I understood correctly, the trainer at school sent you off with the school's horse and the clear expectation that you should come back in the fall having become proficient with higher jumps than what your summer trainer will allow you to undertake. Did you clarify that this was the expectation under which you were given the horse by the school, rather than just this is what you personally would like to do?

Perhaps you could ask if liability issues or other matters respecting the horse are the concern.

Might it possibly be worthwhile for your real trainer (in his/her capacity as effectively being owner of your horse, not in the capacity of being your trainer) to chat with the summer trainer to indicate that as the owner, (s)he has no concerns whatever about your doing with the horse what you and (s)he discussed at school?

If there are liability concerns underlying your summer trainer's reservations, no doubt those could be resolved between the two of them with a release or something.

I am sure your regular trainer would be prudent and diplomatic enough, however, to defer to the judgment of the person you are temporarily working with if the concerns at home are based on something other than liability issues. So nothing may change.

[shea'smom]

Itchy Ritchie,
In regards to your PM to me, I was not making fun of you. That was a compliment! I thought your post was pretty well written, compared to most teenagers who post here.

[Cruise1]

Itchy Ritchie,
In regards to your PM to me, I was not making fun of you. That was a compliment! I thought your post was pretty well written, compared to most teenagers who post here.

Oh Yes Itchy Ritchie- I agree, she wasn't making fun of you at all! Something just got lost in the translation! YOu were very well spoken- or typed, whatever.

[chai]

Itchy, I read your post and watched the video and while I agree that it's very well written, two thoughts come to mind:

1. It is not such a great idea to come on a public board and criticize a trainer for wanting to keep the horse's age/ability/green-ness as a priority over your desire to jump big. One of the things about being a true horseman is considering the horse first, and not your desire to jump big. Someone is going to read this, recognize the horse's name and it will get back to the school and your trainer. You may have burned bridges that you will regret later on.

2. Neville is fast in the video and he comes into the white picket fence very strong and takes quite a long one. Watch it again: he's a stride out and hesitates because he doesn't know if he can fit that last stride in, so he takes a long one. He obviously has a lot of heart, but if that was a 3'3" fence, he might have been in serious trouble. If he is still green, he is not yours, and professionals have told you that he should not be doing the 3 foot because he isn't ready, step back and think about the horse; not yourself.

What do you think happens to school horses that burn out or get injured because they are pushed too fast too soon? Would you be willing to buy him from the school and give him a forever home if he became injured or sour? I rode on my college team, so I know what I'm talking about. Schools do not have the $$ to keep a horse that cannot be ridden, so there is a reason you have been told by a professional that he should stay at 2'6" until he is older and rock solid at that height. The video actually adds credence to that.

A trainer who is telling you to bring the horse along slowly until he is solid is a trainer who is looking out for the horse's well being and his future, and that is a very admirable quality. Please consider that, and perhaps you can find a horse that's more seasoned at 3' to have some fun with.

[magnolia73]

LOL, Does your new trainer realize that 2'6 classes for horses used to *not exist*? I'll be ther first to admit, I'm a chicken, and judgey about unsafe people over fences, but you look just fine to be jumping some 3' courses.

[goeslikestink]

He is a little strong at 2'6", honestly. I had never jumped him in anything other then a plain dee ring and when I tried a different bit he was no longer strong so I guess I used the term strong loosely.
I really wanted to do high-schoolings because I thought it would be the only 3' class where he would not be out of his element.

I just feel like in the beginning of the summer I was thinking, "I'll do 2'6" for awhile just to get him happy and comfortable and go easy for awhile" and 2 months later I'm still doing the exact same thing. But like I said in a recent post, I'm over it.

Thanks for understanding why I posted this though

your missing the point of cat on lap and your current trainer

did you know a horse wont jump big if it cant jump small


think-----


Originally Posted by CatOnLap View Post
Go ahead and vent and then remember what you've told us:

The horse has issues above 3 feet.


becuase its not been set up for the jumps

The horse frequently doesn't get his distance right at 3 feet.

becuase your not setting him up right nor seeing his stride


The horse is too strong for hunters at 2'6".

no collection as in half halts stride --

and checking him ie setting him up for each jump

All of these comments talk about a horse that is still very green, and it is better to to stay lower where he's comfortable at this point. If he's strong at 2'6" this might even be lower than what you are showing, even though you "don't care". You also comment:

agreee

You are not a professional.
You are pretty young and although you are game and eager, you might not have the experience to judge all these things the way your trainer does.
It's not your horse.


And these last comments tell us that other people with more experience are asking you to be more cautious.

I think ranting about your frustration here is a good way to get the energy worked out so you can go back and cope with the limits that everyone, including the horse you are riding, are telling you to stick to.

agreee

matey -- as i agree with cat on lap and have given you extra pointers of her comments

i will say this to you all i see is a horse rushing -------around jumping a fence one way
and no collection at end and no looking for the nest jump

the current trianer is obviously thinking horse and thinking of collection striding and setting you up for each fence ------- verticals are jumped diffrently to spreads and a horse might be more rounded when they are jumping - some horses needa bit of urmp to get them ove a jump and its harder when its higher if the horse hasnt been set up correctly hence why hes takes of rials -- more than likely juding by pics and videos its will be his back legs
or perhaps his fronts as some your are late and some your to early with

hes green and so are you ------- go fast and say but trianer at school says this or that
be careful matey-- as he might go back lame------
and that will be your fault - jumping him and over facing him when hes clearly not ready and doesnt know how to and nor do you

[magnolia73]

the current trianer is obviously thinking horse and thinking of collection striding and setting you up for each fence ------- verticals are jumped diffrently to spreads and a horse might be more rounded when they are jumping - some horses needa bit of urmp to get them ove a jump and its harder when its higher if the horse hasnt been set up correctly hence why hes takes of rials -- more than likely juding by pics and videos its will be his back legs
or perhaps his fronts as some your are late and some your to early with

Honestly, most trainers I see who's students get stuck at 2' or 2'6 are not actually teaching finer points of collection or working on the horse's form. They are generally not competent themselves or never instill quality basics on the riders. Or the goal is to collect ribbons so the rider sticks to a super easy division for them. (or the riders or horse are limited and/or scared/ or no desire to jump higher)

I'll also say this- if you spend too much time perfecting over small jumps, you can do yourself a disservice if you are never trying bigger jumps. At some point, you need to move up and get used to a bigger jump. Any horse should be able to jump 3' and not be traumatized. I'm not saying it is easy to jump a hunter quality 3' that would win ribbons, but from the looks of it, that horse can jump 3', probably from a trot.... However, working out issues is better to do over smaller jumps in terms of preserving soundness etc. Not much point jumping 3'6 to fix a lead change.

OP, it sounds like you are stuck. Be glad school starts soon and do your best to get the best from the trainer. Maybe work on flat work or your eq or drop stirrups. And perhaps ask WHY she won't raise the jumps. In a polite way and find out what she feels is holding you back.

[dghunter]

Just glanced through some of the threads so this might have been mentioned already. Perhaps summer trainer is not comfortable teaching students over that height? Or perhaps she's just worried (for whatever reason-real or not) about you two? Summer trainer could do more damage by telling you something wrong over a fence that high.

I think the best solution in the future is to have both trainers talk before the horse leaves and make a plan, perhaps including shows and which divisions. Also, if the horse is the school's then perhaps a check in once and awhile would be a good idea depending on the distance? I would also imagine that the school trainer would want to check out things just to make sure that everything would be okay with her and the horse? (ie facilities, turnout, etc...)

[ItchyRichie]

Thanks everyone! For the most part you're all pretty correct.

It's just weird to me that I was allowed to show in our in house show at 3 feet the 2nd week the horse was at this barn and now I'm not even allowed to school 3 feet.

I don't really think 3 feet is the height that I need to worry about messing up the horse, I think 3'6" is that height for him, which is why I don't jump 3'6" very often on him even at school, that is why I'm very frustrated with this whole ordeal.

He did take a misstep in that video, I'm pretty sure it was because he was spooking at the jump, he had issues with that gate for a couple weeks (we set up a really crazy course for a special riding group thing and all of the jumps were decorated VERY excessively). I edited the video but the girl spends about 2 minutes putting his face in the jump because he was so scared of it that whole week. He does that when he's scared of the way jumps look but like I said for whatever reason that has been a complete non-issue this summer. I actually got scolded early in the summer for not trusting him to jump because he usually runs out if the jump is decorated or bright. Trainers didn't seem to believe me.

[ItchyRichie]

just wanted to say - show that I was supposed to do pre-childrens hunters & eq got rained out and moved to this weekend, baby trainer came back and said I could do either childrens or high schoolings so I'm happy now =)

she actually came over to my mom at the barn to tell her how awesome the horse and I looked at the last show and how well he's doing and my mom said, "yeah I think she's doing 3 feet at Middleburg HT when she gets back to school" and my trainer said, "oh you know, if she wants to do 3 feet at the next show she can I have no problem with that!" and seemed excited and I don't even know if she got word of me wanting to do 3 feet with him at the last show so all is good =)