• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Foot in mouth- went to look a horse- funny but LONG!!

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Foot in mouth- went to look a horse- funny but LONG!!

    Long story happened on the way to West Orange...

    So my friend A is looking for a horse, casually. She wants a super easy, amatuer friendly horse. Issue: She is 5' 11" and ALL leg. If she is going to buy, she wants a horse she honestly fits. She rides dressage and trails, and is on a tight budget.

    We saw an ad for a 17 hand 8 year old TB gelding in West Orange NJ. Now for those of you non-jersey people- west orange is the city. The very urban, dense, non agrarian city. But apparently the county has a preserve with a farm, rental horses, pony rides, and boarding. I've seen county run barns with public stuff, they generally suck. In addition to being overpriced. /rant

    The horse has some videos on youtube we dissect first- horse is being held back too much, goes crooked, needs to go with more pace and a better rider who will help him, not just sit there. We knew the horse had no mouth and would have a big step that A would have to ask for.

    After some back and forth when the horse had a injury on his face, then the owner had to reschedule again, FINALLY we arrived to see the horse. Although first we sat in the driveway playing count the safety concerns: horse tied by its bit to a tractor, sharp wires in the turnout field, etc etc.
    But these folks just board there, I was trying hard NOT to judge.

    Owner is tiny- 5'1" or so. Her mom who occasionally rides the horse is also short, but round -I figure if horse can handle armature mom, should have a good temperament etc. We ask if he was turned out- yes for half a day today.

    Owner: "But he is so calm, never bucked or reared with a rider. He's so calm for a TB, usually they are lunatics! We love him, he's so easy and beautiful, we want him to go to the best home..."

    Horse grumps quite a bit during girthing, is shiny and well groomed, but skinny, no topline, huge old blemish on hind leg, and some weird bumps between the back of the saddle and the croup. Short tail too. Nice straight legs, looong cannon bones, good feet, upright shoulder. He's 16.2 or so. I measure against my friend A standing next to the horse. If she can see over the horse, it ain;t 17H!!

    Owner puts on bells boots- we ask if the horse interferes- "No." Then why the bell boots? "To protect him..." (From.... what??)

    Horse is not showing ANY personality at this point, just stands like a statue, no fussing but also no interest - this is a bustling lesson barn with tons of people and us tacking him up.

    Owner gets out bridle- it has brass and silver.. decorations? all over it We're not talking swarovski- it looked more like harness horse decorations. Weird. D ring mullen mouth. Horse resists bridling for a few moments before taking it.

    Owner mounts and walks the horse around. He has a nice free walk, big overstep. Trot is not as nice- any time she touches his face he fusses, and he's sucked back, not marching at all. Canter is a huge stride, but crooked and still won't take contact and seems sucked back.

    Owner tells us he can jump anything, "2'6', 2"9 courses, 8 foot, whatever."
    Oh, really? a 2'9" course? Because from the videos and today, this horse doesn't know how to jump an outside line, let alone any other related fences.

    Hopped over a few fences (2'), super nice knees, but his jump is all up, not forward, so he hangs in the air and has a weird landing. Owner says he does his changes, but does not demonstrate, horse chooses the wrong lead once or twice and they do a simple change. The whole ride horse just looks like he needs to GO FORWARD, inside leg, outside rein, half halt, contact, produce the energy with the leg and channel it with hands and seat! But I am not the owner. Or the buyer. And A. already knows EXACTLY what I think from the videos.

    So far no big deal- horse looks ok to the two of us, so she decides to do a test ride. Test ride plan: just give him his head and see what he wants to do, and then possibly use some aids. Maybe hop a cross rail if she can get a flowing forward canter out of him.

    A did not bring her own saddle, as it is fairly narrow and she expected it would never fit a 17h (ha ha) fit- with a topline- horse. Much fussing is made to find long enough stirrups for A. (She really is all leg, I am terribly jealous!)

    A. Puts on her safety vest. At this point I begin to wonder if she should sign a liability release? But owner says nothing so we just go along with it.

    A asks if she should carry her crop.

    Owners: "You don't need it."
    A: "OK, but will it bother him if I carry it?"
    Owner: "You don't need a crop"
    At this point I'm annoyed- why can't she carry it, even if she doesn't NEED it?

    And then I shoved my foot so far up my mouth I tasted the sweat on the back of my knee.
    I said: "George Morris always says to ride with a crop AND spurs."
    And I get the look of death from the owner. I become invisible.

    A gets on the horse. Walks a few steps, then horse begins to jig. Then trot. She's just SITTING there, and he even canters a few strides.

    A. tries to calm him down- he;s not spooking or bolting outright, but ANY touch of the leg, even hanging on his side, sets him off. And he has no idea about contact so she can't half halt. It's just her leg laying quietly on his sides that he objects to- owners leg is barely below the saddle flap.

    3 minutes later A. hops off. Enough is enough.

    We help quickly untack the horse - he's quite sweaty with only 15 minutes of work, so out of shape. A. offers him the carrots she brough- he barely nibbles at one of them- very un engaged with people.

    We think a good chiropractor could help this horse, but at this point i am still Claude Rains, so I say nothing to the owner. Poor horse needs a professional or advanced rider, but isn't really talented enough to interest that level of rider. Sounds like he's good on trails though...

    Thanks the owner for her time (although owner is now on her cell and cannot even bother to say goodbye).

    Weird urban barn, horse shorter then advertised, horse temperament not as advertised, no concern for safety, and I am a precedent citing blithering blathering rude idiot.
    Do not take anything to heart. Do not hanker after signs of progress. Founder of the Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Penthilisea View Post
    Weird urban barn, horse shorter then advertised, horse temperament not as advertised, no concern for safety, and I am a precedent citing blithering blathering rude idiot.
    Hmmm - shorter than advertised, temperament not as advertised. Sounds like horse shoppin'!
    A proud friend of bar.ka.


    • #3
      Sounds like a strange/only-in-the-horseworld situation

      I hate to agree witht the seller - but - I would not let someone get on my horse with a bat and/or spurs if I never needed to use them either. If the horse does not need them, the horse does not need them. Period. Too much of a risk of someone getting on who does not know how to use them and either the rider or horse gets hurt.

      Shame on the owner for not requiring a release though.


      • #4
        Ulcers? He sounds like a nice diamond in the rough to me...with ulcers and maybe come chiro work too. Maybe you guys should reconsider upgrading his home!

        I have been horse shoping with friends that makes this look like a walk in the park, lol.
        There are stars in the Southern sky and if ever you decide you should go there is a taste of time sweetened honey.


        • #5
          hmmm, my Irish horse was the same when I got him...lay a leg on him and we were off to the races. In about 5 months with correct riding. I have a brave horse who could care less what I do to him. You never know....


          • #6
            There's a perfect match posted on CL here in Nashville... does she want to ship one?!
            Big Idea Eventing


            • #7
              Oh there was a free standardbred that was 17 hands being sent around via email...though wasn't broke. lol. but it's a standardbred!

              If i can find the email would you like it? (It's in jersey somewhere)


              • Original Poster

                Thanks for the replies, all.
                FYI she is not looking to ship, wants a broke broke broke horse, no rush to buy Basically she wants a horse she COULD carry a bat on, even if it wasn't needed. Carry- not use.
                The horse just wasn't as advertised- not for an amatuer, and certainly not for one with long legs!

                I agree though, ULCERS crossed my mind too. He would be a good upgrade if anyone if else is looking I will send you the info via PM
                Do not take anything to heart. Do not hanker after signs of progress. Founder of the Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.


                • #9
                  I know you meant well, OP and I know that you were already upset by things that you had seen awry, but I have to agree with the sellers a bit here. I would not let someone on my horse with a bat and spurs unless I was sure they knew how to use them. Why would you even want to carry a bat if you didn't need one? (That's a real question, not trying to be a smart ass.)

                  And **Putting on major flame suit here** I disagree with GM (if this is actually something he preaches)... I do not think every horse/every ride requires spurs and a bat. If you had said that to me, the trial ride would have never happened at all. Sorry to be harsh, but at least you have admitted to sticking your foot in your mouth. I applaud you for that.
                  Last edited by drmgncolor; Jul. 31, 2009, 11:30 AM.
                  Dreaming in Color


                  • #10
                    The horse was fine for the owner but not fine for your friend? Not seeing what the big deal was, the horse was too much for your friend.

                    I also would not let anyone ride my horse with a crop or spurs unless I knew them and their riding.

                    I think this is a bit judgy judgemental.
                    Boss Mare Eventing Blog


                    • #11
                      I don't know... I would roll my eyes at someone if I told them my horse does not go with a whip and spurs and I got a "BUT George Morris SAYS too!". He didn't work out and that sucks but this really doesn't sound like a misadvertised horse from hell some some I've seen. I don't mean to pick apart your rant, but did you stick him for his height? Seeing over a horse doesn't really determine their height if they have tall withers. I couldn't tell if you were upset with only a half day turnout, but I got that from your post a little. That's more than many horses get and if a horse can't act properly on half a day turnout there's something wrong- apparently since he just stood dead in the cross ties he was fine. I would much rather a horse stand there well behaved and bored then look at every single thing bug eyed that walks by. I don't know... just found your post very judgmental without great reason. I don't think they lied really.


                      • #12
                        Never had a horse that I had to ride with a bat and I've never worn a set of spurs. I guess I've been lucky but my horses don't seem to balk, they're very forward and pretty much behaved. Well, except the new gal, Dolly, and I am thinking about riding with a bat for her.
                        I want a signature but I have nothing original to say except: "STHU and RIDE!!!

                        Wonderful COTHER's I've met: belleellis, stefffic, snkstacres and janedoe726.


                        • #13
                          Considering the horse was jiggy when she got on him there was probably a good reason for no spurs/stick. I ride/sell ottb's and I really prefer if new riders don't carry a stick and spurs. Yes, I ride every horse with both but often tb's are very sensitive to new styles of riding and if someone rides differently than me it can cause a reaction from the horse so why make the situation worse by adding them.

                          I ride a ton of Tb's but on my first few rides or if I went to try a strange horse I would NEVER have my spurs on or be carrying a stick. I treat every horse like a blank slate and tend to add as I go not start like they know something. If you treat them like they know nothing you are bound to be happy if they do know a bit instead of the other way around

                          I think that horse actually sounds fairly interesting to me not that I am shopping. I don't know the price range but if he is that willing somebody could transform him into a pretty cool horse.

                          My mom recently bought a $1k Tb in NJ that is 16.3 h and exactly as you describe. He doesn't know much of anything but is willing to try. When shopping for a bargain that is all that I ask for. Tons of horses could use a chiropractor but most of the time good dressage can fix a ton of body issues.


                          • #14
                            Hmm, if some of the details weren't different... I would swear I tried this horse
                            "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"


                            • #15
                              The horse my mom ended up buying is named Oak Ridge Tom he is a work in progress but I kinda like him. Vx- possible same horse you tried?


                              • Original Poster

                                The key here is that the horse was NOT amatuer suited. An amatuer suited horse will tolerate a rider CARRYING a bat (and I mean carrying, like up across the thigh, not in the almost hitting dropped position)

                                I totally agree that what I said was SO very WRONG- out of place, rude, and odd. I am still kicking myself, you all can laugh at me, with me.
                                Do not take anything to heart. Do not hanker after signs of progress. Founder of the Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.


                                • #17
                                  Didn't try him Jleegriffith but I called on him and he was already sold. They sent me some EYE POPPING photos of another sale horse and then I was too scared to go there

                                  It all ended up fine because I am very happy with the horsey I ended up with
                                  "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Jleegriffith View Post
                                    The horse my mom ended up buying is named Oak Ridge Tom he is a work in progress but I kinda like him. Vx- possible same horse you tried?
                                    Glad to hear you bought Tom. Must have been fairly recently as I saw him not too long ago. He is a nice horse needs a job.


                                    • #19
                                      Slightly different scenario... but on the subject of saying the wrong thing: My neighbour came up with a great line that we say when we see horses that aren't as advertised (really, really, not as advertised) and the owners are gushing all over them.

                                      "Well! He just takes my breath away!"

                                      Whoever you're horse shopping with knows exactly what you mean. And now there's less chance of sticking foot in mouth.

                                      You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng


                                      • #20
                                        I would ask the same question as the OP. I had a horse that we were evaluating for the camp I worked for a while back. He was doing fine with another rider, and then I got on with a short crop since I was going to jump him and he went berserk (calmed down when I dropped the whip, but not very fast). Turns out that when previous owner/donator was called, to let her know how his evaluation went, that she knew he had a thing about whips. It would have been nice for us to know that.

                                        I always try to ask someone before I get on their horse if the horse is used to spurs and/or a crop, so that I can be prepared for the horse's response. Any horse should be okay with being ridden with a crop and spurs. Just because you wear them doesn't mean you use them. I used to ride my very hot TB mare with a dressage whip every ride just to get her over her reactiveness to it. IMHO a horse that won't tolerate a rider carrying a whip is also the one that you can get into big trouble if someone hands you something, or you have to pick up something and carry it on the trail. Just my $0.02 worth.
                                        ~ Kimberlee