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(Revised 2/8/18)
Board Rules
1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.
This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.
Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.
Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.
2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.
3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.
4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.
Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.
Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.
Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:
Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.
Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.
Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.
Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.
Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.
Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.
Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.
5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.
6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.
If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.
Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.
7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.
8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.
Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.
Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!
(Revised 2/8/18)
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Natural Horsemanship Experiences
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Oh, but Ted's All-American - a Thoroughbred! So it would have to be something like "The Pizza Wedge of Justice."www.specialhorses.org
a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues
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I've never seen anything in print from either the O'Conners or Parelli about why they no longer exhibit together, so I doubt we'll ever have an in-depth answer. I've never seen/heard either of them speak ill of the other, though.
I think it may have something to do with the fact that the O'Conners are now into "branding" themselves (maybe they were studying the whole Parelli organization veeerrry closely while they were involved!). See http://tinyurl.com/zl32r
Several years ago I saw the O'Conners give an exhibit, including parelli-style free lunging ("squeeze") over fences, and David said he liked this because it helped teach the horse to think about the fence, to have confidence he could get over it by himself. And here's a report from one of the O'Conner equestrian camps that suggests they still use some parelli equipment: http://tinyurl.com/lxgr7
What's my point? Just that I think it was more about business than a clash of training methods....somewhere between the talent and the potato....
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Absolutely. I can free lunge with just my body, but the whip acts as an extension of that to talk to his hind end. It isn't a weapon, or a punishment, but an aid.Originally posted by MeredithTX View PostBut don't a dressage whip and carrot stick serve similar purposes? It's still an extension of your arm/leg to reinforce the aids.www.specialhorses.org
a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues
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Conny free lunges, and always has. Never hit him with the lunge whip, because they're pretty useless except for snapping anyway.
Whips are aids, not torture devices. If used correctly, like any aid, they're helpful.Homeopathy claims water can cure you since it once held medicine. That's like saying you can get sustenance from an empty plate because it once held food.
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Yep! And another advantage of it is it allows you to put pressure on a horse without being in harms way.I can free lunge with just my body, but the whip acts as an extension of that to talk to his hind end. It isn't a weapon, or a punishment, but an aid
Starting out with some horses that come with "baggage" (like Sampson!!), when I first would apply pressure to his hindquarters to get him to step over, his reaction was to kick. Or to apply pressure to his chest to get him to back, he would strike. A training stick, as a simple extension, allows you to touch them to get the yield, and be out of the way.
Once he realized he was safe and this was NOT going to be a fight but he WAS going to step over or back or wherever I asked him to, the stick wasn't needed and hands were safe.
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I wanted to add that from the start, Sampson was fine with me touching and rubbing him anywhere, but when the touch turned to a light pressure, and then a heavier pressure, the resistance started.
And boy when I picked up that stick! Up went the head, eyes wide, a look of "Oh yeah - I knew the beatings would start soon!" Of course they never did. And what a great horse he is.
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You know, I haven't been there long enough yet to have tried anything new myself. It's still difficult to accept given my past, but I was just impressed. I am going to show a couple of their horses this weekend in a schooling show, so we'll see how that experience goes. I certainly have learned that next time I have a problem horse (like if they are afraid of something and won't seem to get over it) that instead of ignoring it, I would try some of their methods. The whole simple first step of throwing the lead rope over a horse's back is something that I'm guessing at least half the horses I've worked with in the past wouldn't stand for.Originally posted by gentleBrook* View PostSo, did you stay at that barn? And what were your subsequent experiences? I'm interested to hear if you tried any of the techniques or changed anything in your own dealings with horses, and if so, did it change anything for you?
I will have to see how it goes after spending more time there!~Lauren
The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those who don't have it.
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I used to use a lunge whip when I lunged... then one day I got tired of hauling it around and I was sure I didn't need it anyway. Sure enough, voice commands and body language did the trick (when I want her to stop, I just step over in the direction she's traveling - she stops and turns her head towards me). Used properly, whips can be helpful. However, I think most people that use them use them as a crutch rather than an extension of a leg/arm aid.Enjoying the scenery out on the trails with my 1993 American Quarter Horse mare, Mollys Baby Pearls.
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What never ceases to amaze me is how my horse responds to my body...which really helped me in the saddle. I just "step up" as if into the higher gait, and there he goes. Dito for lengthening or shortening within the gait. I rock back and he down transitions.Originally posted by MBPearls View PostI used to use a lunge whip when I lunged... then one day I got tired of hauling it around and I was sure I didn't need it anyway. Sure enough, voice commands and body language did the trick (when I want her to stop, I just step over in the direction she's traveling - she stops and turns her head towards me). Used properly, whips can be helpful. However, I think most people that use them use them as a crutch rather than an extension of a leg/arm aid.
Of course, if I go on my forehand, so does he.www.specialhorses.org
a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues
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Originally posted by MBPearls View PostI used to use a lunge whip when I lunged... then one day I got tired of hauling it around and I was sure I didn't need it anyway. Sure enough, voice commands and body language did the trick (when I want her to stop, I just step over in the direction she's traveling - she stops and turns her head towards me). Used properly, whips can be helpful. However, I think most people that use them use them as a crutch rather than an extension of a leg/arm aid.
I agree. The only time I have picked up a longe whip in recent years is when a horse charged me. Normally, I find that body language and voice are more than sufficient to keep a horse working on the longe. I don't want them running around like a lunatic and cranking their necks, anyway...if they are that high, they need turn-out, not longeing.
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I agree, I think it is more about business than a clash of training methods. I too saw the O'Connors give an exhibit, at the 2005 Equine Event East, and they were using Parelli halters and ropes and explaining how the methods can be carried over to mounted work. They did not mention that it was Parelli's methods (talk about not giving credit where credit is due!), but I remember thinking at the time that it must have been due to some sort of business thing.Originally posted by Anselcat View PostI've never seen anything in print from either the O'Conners or Parelli about why they no longer exhibit together, so I doubt we'll ever have an in-depth answer. I've never seen/heard either of them speak ill of the other, though.
I think it may have something to do with the fact that the O'Conners are now into "branding" themselves (maybe they were studying the whole Parelli organization veeerrry closely while they were involved!). See http://tinyurl.com/zl32r
Several years ago I saw the O'Conners give an exhibit, including parelli-style free lunging ("squeeze") over fences, and David said he liked this because it helped teach the horse to think about the fence, to have confidence he could get over it by himself. And here's a report from one of the O'Conner equestrian camps that suggests they still use some parelli equipment: http://tinyurl.com/lxgr7
What's my point? Just that I think it was more about business than a clash of training methods.
And as you mentioned, they still use some Parelli equipment at their Equestrian Camp. http://www.oconnoreventteam.com/CampReport06.html"If you want to soar with eagles, don't fly with turkeys." Pat Parelli
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[QUOTE=MBPearls;1876947]I used to use a lunge whip when I lunged... then one day I got tired of hauling it around and I was sure I didn't need it anyway. Sure enough, voice commands and body language did the trick (when I want her to stop, I just step over in the direction she's traveling - she stops and turns her head towards me). QUOTE]
Agreed - I hate using a lunge whip because the dang things are tiresome! I find that I don't need it to lunge either. However, I always use a dressage whip for both ground work and under saddle work as an extension of my aids.
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I agree, it's kind of stupid. The six yeilds sounds much less cheesy!Originally posted by TBLvr View PostI always thought it a marketing mistake when PP termed the phrase "7 Games" and came up with other cutsie names such as carrot stick and savvy string. The "Games" are nothing more than yields and most horsemen do these without names attached. Early on he called them the 6 Yields, a better and more accurate term. The stick and string are common tools too - I have them but don't use the cutsie names; they're a training stick and a 6' rope.
I have a really hard time defending the Parelli company when I see things like this...
https://shop.parellisecure.com/show_...da6c6319482375
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You can bet there are alot of folks out there buying that set! I was astounded when I saw it! $1000.00!!!! Geez, get a cool drink and go sit out in the pasture and watch - really watch- a herd for a day.I have a really hard time defending the Parelli company when I see things like this...
https://shop.parellisecure.com/show_...da6c6319482375
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I am clearly in the wrong business.www.specialhorses.org
a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues
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Yep. I have to mentally separate the horsemanship of the program (wheat) from the cheesy ultramarketed machine (chaffe). Sometimes not so easy. Not that there wouldn't be anything to learn in the videos, but $999????? Not bloody likely.Originally posted by TBLvr View PostYou can bet there are alot of folks out there buying that set! I was astounded when I saw it! $1000.00!!!! Geez, get a cool drink and go sit out in the pasture and watch - really watch- a herd for a day.
I feel like telling them that if the goal is to teach more people basic horsemanship and "common sense", then this marketing strategy might actually backfire. These types of stupid gimmicky video sets are likely to be bought by those already sold on the program, and it's just "preaching to the choir". The people who really need the help (the ones who beat up their horses or get pulverized by them regularly) are just rolling their eyes and are turned off by the marketing. It's unfortunate.
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I wonder how much of it is a generational thing - it being much more common and accepted to learn (or teach) remotely. A world of information at your fingertips via the Internet. College classes by video link, or simply video. A generation that yells at a microwave to hurry up. The reason I say this is it seems many people I hear running out to buy this are young.
Oh well - I guess if my kid wanted to spend that kind of money on something I should be relieved its fairly wholesome and not the latest slash and gore video game.
Many things lend themselves to learning this way, but personally I think horsemanship and riding aren't some of them. No doubt there are some things to be learned that way, but that would be the pretty basic stuff - the mechanics of common horse keeping.
The greatest teachers out there have never watched a video; hell I took my DVD player out of the barn after it was clear they'd rather chew it than watch it.
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I learned a lot about horses that way. I started riding at a stable, like a lot of us do, but the day I sat down for an hour and watched the herd interact, it was like something just clicked inside my head. Later on my parents had some broodmares. This time I was working around the herd and had to learn quick how to get out of their way! More importantly I learned more about equine body language, pecking order, and just general horse behaviour. It went a long way in helping me work with foals and older horses. Right now I just have 2 outside.. not much of a herd.. but it's still amazing to watch them interacting. You can't think like a horse until you learn how they think...and just watching horses in a pasture is one of the best ways.Originally posted by TBLvr View PostGeez, get a cool drink and go sit out in the pasture and watch - really watch- a herd for a day.
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