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  • #41
    Sure - anyone who splits hairs to justify their craving for a Big Mac - just too convenient in my book.

    At the very least be a vegetarian - or better yet a vegan. I'd at least have respect for the ant-slaughter rhetoric.

    I'd rather just works towards more humane methods than tilting at windmills - although tilting at windmills is much more romantic.



    Originally posted by friesiandriver
    You can call it whatever you'd like..I just find it somewhat hypocritical that tonnes of people get bent out of shape when they see horses being treated like this and yet done seem to think twice about supporting the exact same thing if it's a different species.
    I don't like slaughter in any form, and no I don't use leather harness's, although the logic doesn't really make sense because animals are not killed primarily for their skin, it is our desire to eat their flesh that drives the market and the factory farms. Leather is a byproduct.
    Secondly, I am educated enough about it to make an informed decision. We have a big animal sciences program at my university here in Alberta, and being a science major (and hopefully a vet) I choose the animal science/ag classes as my options. I KNOW that what I am seeing in regards horse slaughter..ie methods ect are the same as those used for cattle(captive stun bolt, shipping ect). I know how animals are kept on a factory farm. You can tell yourself it isn't the same all you like, but the only factor that isn't the same is that your attached to one species of animal and not the other. If you say:"this sucks because I like horsies and the thought of them being eaten offends me", then fine. But to say it's wrong on the basis of cruelty and then to go eat a steak just doesn't make much sense.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling

    Comment


    • #42
      But really, what can ordinary people on a tight budget do to help?
      I really want to know because I would be the first in line.
      Founding Member of "I Kept 'Off Topic Day!' Open"

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by Sannois
        And the sheer waste of young good horses, After seeing Animal Cops Houston last night on Animal Planet, I think the quick death of those horses is far more humane than the horrendous things I saw done to horses, by supposed owners on that show! I cried my eyes out, The Houston SPCA does an awful lot ! I commend them for the lives they have saved, and the people who had the horses confiscated were prosecuted. I have no answers to the slaughter issue, The noble animals that mean so much to all of us, are mearly a cash crop to many. Just like cattle. The looks on those trusting young Belgians was more than I could handle!
        Thruth be know, those trusty Belgians where not in line for killin...heck, I can send you a picture of a cat and a cutting board and meat cleaver, that does not mean the kitty ended up as stirfry!

        Or like those two idiots pointing a gun at the poor horse? Almost want to yell *I dare you* at them chances are, they'd shoot each other, or, should the horse be armed, break their collective arms or be crushed by a falling body!
        Just because they caption a photo, it does not mean that's what is really going on...besides, isn't that what anti slaughter people claim...the horrors in the slaughter house, and then they are upset when the horses doze in the sun and are not in panic?
        Originally posted by BigMama1
        Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
        GNU Terry Prachett

        Comment


        • #44
          FriesianDriver and JSwan, what makes you think that so many anti horse slaughter advocates are burger stuffing hypocrites? Many of the posts to this thread have been made by educated, well informed people. Being passionate about a cause doeasn't make us blithering fools who have no idea what happens to other food animals. J Swan, you just seem to be very content with reading between the lines and then, if the post doesn't suit your way of thinking, you post back with some pompous remark aimed at slamming some poor sod. You don't know it all, some of us out here in COTH land are married to farmers, we raise the animals you eat, we know more about farming than you will ever comprehend. Stop being so goddamn pedantic.

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by Alagirl
            the horrors in the slaughter house, and then they are upset when the horses doze in the sun and are not in panic?

            What on earth are you talking about?????

            Comment


            • #46
              Geez - don't be so touchy. You're not the only Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm on the BB, ya know. I didn't learn to milk cows from a video game.

              And I thought we were allowed to disagree with people posting about ending horse slaughter. Can y'all let me know exactly what is the purpose behind posting about horse slaughter if not to discuss it?

              So, though I pay my subscription dues to COTH, pay for my premium membership, I'm not allowed to post responses on subjects I take exception to? Is it ok to jump all over people not opposed to slaughter?

              This is a discussion forum. As was said to me - if you don't like my responses, don't participate. Skip the thread.

              And FYI - many people justify ending horse slaughter and have no idea how other food animals are processed in this country.




              Originally posted by horseandhound
              FriesianDriver and JSwan, what makes you think that so many anti horse slaughter advocates are burger stuffing hypocrites? Many of the posts to this thread have been made by educated, well informed people. Being passionate about a cause doeasn't make us blithering fools who have no idea what happens to other food animals. J Swan, you just seem to be very content with reading between the lines and then, if the post doesn't suit your way of thinking, you post back with some pompous remark aimed at slamming some poor sod. You don't know it all, some of us out here in COTH land are married to farmers, we raise the animals you eat, we know more about farming than you will ever comprehend. Stop being so goddamn pedantic.
              Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
              Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
              -Rudyard Kipling

              Comment


              • #47
                Indeed - there is room for great improvement in the processing of this species, as well as emu ostrich or other species.


                Originally posted by jetsmom
                Friesandriver- Horses go through much worse cruelty in the whole slaughter process than cattle, pigs or sheep...

                1) Numerous auctions

                2) Transport up to 30 hrs

                3) Being processed (killed) in facilities designed for cattle (ie no head restraints, etc)
                Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                -Rudyard Kipling

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by horseandhound
                  What on earth are you talking about?????

                  Thruth be know, those trusty Belgians where not in line for killin...heck, I can send you a picture of a cat and a cutting board and meat cleaver, that does not mean the kitty ended up as stirfry!

                  Or like those two idiots pointing a gun at the poor horse? Almost want to yell *I dare you* at them chances are, they'd shoot each other, or, should the horse be armed, break their collective arms or be crushed by a falling body!
                  Just because they caption a photo, it does not mean that's what is really going on...besides, isn't that what anti slaughter people claim...the horrors in the slaughter house, and then they are upset when the horses doze in the sun and are not in panic?
                  __________________
                  Originally posted by BigMama1
                  Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                  GNU Terry Prachett

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    GREAT SITE (though someone desperately needs to proof read it! )

                    If only more people could see the tragic, graphic, bloody fates we condemn our meat animals to.

                    Originally posted by friesiandriver
                    You can call it whatever you'd like..I just find it somewhat hypocritical that tonnes of people get bent out of shape when they see horses being treated like this and yet done seem to think twice about supporting the exact same thing if it's a different species...


                    Well said! I hope others consider your point of view and reconsider how (sarcasm) wonderful that cow's life was in order to be turned as quickly & cheaply into McDonald's Value Menu items.

                    The commercial slaughter system & factory farms in the US are the epitome of cruelty & greed.

                    (And for the record I personally don't eat anything coming from a factory farm or slaughterhouse.)

                    This stuff is done for shock value.


                    No... the stuff is SHOCKING... subtle difference. It's inherently upsetting. It's not because someone altered the photos to make it appear more violent than it really is. It's because this IS what horse slaughter is like. No way to sugar coat it without giving up some of the truth.

                    These places still sing what a huge asset they are to the community. If they're so wonderful, why don't they open their doors to tours the was a potato chip factory does? Bring in the school kids and see what a favor they're doing for the horse community. Even a gift shop with horse spleen key chains... t-shirts of a bleeding-out horse on a hook "I'm just Hanging Around at Dallas Crown"... souvenir plastic captive-bolt gun to try on your friends. Free horse femur with any purchase!
                    Veterinarians for Equine Welfare

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by J Swan
                      Geez - don't be so touchy. You're not the only Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm on the BB, ya know. I didn't learn to milk cows from a video game.

                      And I thought we were allowed to disagree with people posting about ending horse slaughter. Can y'all let me know exactly what is the purpose behind posting about horse slaughter if not to discuss it?

                      So, though I pay my subscription dues to COTH, pay for my premium membership, I'm not allowed to post responses on subjects I take exception to? Is it ok to jump all over people not opposed to slaughter?

                      This is a discussion forum. As was said to me - if you don't like my responses, don't participate. Skip the thread.

                      And FYI - many people justify ending horse slaughter and have no idea how other food animals are processed in this country.

                      Could have fooled me!!! Your prior posts say it all. Weren't you the one whining about too many slaughter posts for your liking ? Oh my, one thing you are not is consistent. Try debating instead of lecturing, you too may learn a thing or two...Kind Regards, Green acres.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by horseandhound
                        FriesianDriver and JSwan, what makes you think that so many anti horse slaughter advocates are burger stuffing hypocrites? Many of the posts to this thread have been made by educated, well informed people. Being passionate about a cause doeasn't make us blithering fools who have no idea what happens to other food animals. J Swan, you just seem to be very content with reading between the lines and then, if the post doesn't suit your way of thinking, you post back with some pompous remark aimed at slamming some poor sod. You don't know it all, some of us out here in COTH land are married to farmers, we raise the animals you eat, we know more about farming than you will ever comprehend. Stop being so goddamn pedantic.
                        Thank you for articulating what so many of us were reluctant to say ourselves.
                        "There's something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man" ~ Sir Winston Churchill

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by MayS
                          These places still sing what a huge asset they are to the community. If they're so wonderful, why don't they open their doors to tours the was a potato chip factory does? Bring in the school kids and see what a favor they're doing for the horse community. Even a gift shop with horse spleen key chains... t-shirts of a bleeding-out horse on a hook "I'm just Hanging Around at Dallas Crown"... souvenir plastic captive-bolt gun to try on your friends. Free horse femur with any purchase!
                          So true. So so true. Samples on little skewers even. Free recipe books

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            MMM last time I checked (which was yesterday..as I browsed the local bargain finder) I noticed a few cattle auctions scheduled for this weekend. This is cattle country up here. I live right in the middle of it. Cattle go through auctions just like horses...I will add though that I am sure it's more traumatic for horses in terms of herd/social issues...but still, cattle go through auctions all the time. Secondly, they are transported the same way. They JUST made it illegal here to slaughter downed cows. A downed cow is one that for whatever reason, cannot walk(looked alot like one of those horses on the site referenced). After the whole BSE scare up here, there was alot of focus on sick cattle in the food chain. It turns out that yup, they would have truckloads of cattle come in, and usually there would be a downed cow in amoungst them (broken leg, neck ...sick whatever) and so then they'd grab the handy dandy bobcat and drag it out and send it down the line straight to your local mcdicks. This happened regularly enough to provoke an inquiry that aired on our local news chanel (and was previously discussed in one of my classes)..as well as in other publications ect. It was just recently made illegal here in canada to handle an cow this way.
                            Secondly,I dont care who on this board raises whatever for whoever..I don't care if I offend someone because they raise cattle (My grandma does..so what??)...the almighty dollar doesn't drive my capacity to understand what suffering is and isn't. And along those lines of thinking..I guess horse slaughter should be ok because well..it pays some peoples bills (probably not COTHers but some other Tom Dick or Harry).
                            Lastly, I never meant to imply that everyone here eats meat and condemns slaughter...I was adressing my post more to the people who are aghast by horse slaughter ( and yet don't seem to mind eating pig or cow) which im sure there are plently of.
                            It reminds me of the days when I used to work in the pet store and people would LOVE the hamsters. They would fawn and fuss over how cute they were and how their hamster "loves" this and "dislikes" that ect and then they'd catch site of the mice in the reptile section and: "OMG! AHHHHHHHH ewwwww thats soooo grosss!!!!! yuck...speaking of which..do you have any mouse pioson?" God...they are basically the same freaking animal!.
                            Horses are my fav animal, but physiologically speaking..they are essentially the same animal as a cow. What the horse feels, the cow will too. Pigs are on their own level simply because their capacity to suffer mentally is huge, assuming they are as intelligent as science says they are. Physically speaking...we use pig livers and hearts to transplant into people...they are about as close to us as you can get (save other primates)...so in terms of capacity to feel physical pain, its probably safe to say that what we feel, so would they.They live their ENTIRE lives in abject misery if they are raised on a factory farm..so I'd say thats worse than most equines have it. The ONLY, SINGLE reason that this hypocricy takes place is because of OUR feelings, not because we care about cruelty to animals. We (society) care only about what WE love, wether it be companionship of a certain species, or the taste of the flesh of another.
                            kyla

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              SusanP...keep getting the message out there.

                              As far as the cows n pigs comments go...if their slaughter conditions are simular, please provide me with proof of consistant torture/abuse by ALL slaughterhouses and I will never touch pork/beef again. The cattle slaughter house I visited in South St. Paul, MN was NOTHING like how it is with horses.

                              This is a horse forum, horses are what we fight for.

                              Keep fighting SusanP...
                              I've got the 3 things men want. I'm hot, and I'm smart!

                              -The 6th Member Of The Bareback Riders Clique-

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Furthermore, Americans don't eat horses, why should we let foreign owned companies come to our home, kill American horses of all ages, ship the meat overseas, not even pay tariffs or taxes in the US, circumvent our laws using their high priced lawyers and lobbyists? Can't prove anyone is being paid off but we know antislaughter people have no money, we're spending it all saving horses.

                                Obviously some Americans like to be paid in cold hard US dollar for hor horses they no longer wish to keep. And how is the High priced lobbyist from the three meager slaughter houses any different than - uh - defence contractors, developers, gambling...last I looked, you do not pay tarif for exporting. You usually get subsidiesed, heaven knows the US has little to export these days.

                                And how do you know that there is no horsemeat consumed in the US? Not localy produced, but hmm, I seem to recall one COTHER complaining about a Florida restaurant serving horse, they would not do it if no one wanted it!
                                Originally posted by BigMama1
                                Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                                GNU Terry Prachett

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  I'm with the folks that say his exceptionally poor spelling skills somewhat distract from the message for me.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    *shrug* Everytime someone brings up other animals, it occurs to me to add that you can live well - and healthily - without killing them either.

                                    Signed, your pesky neighborhood vegetarian...

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      [QUOTE=horseandhound]
                                      Originally posted by shakeytails
                                      Just what is a BelgiuM horse? Are they related to Belgian horses?

                                      Belgium is a country. If you come from Belgium you are a Belgian. If the guy wants to call them Belgiums, so what, it's one in the same.

                                      Even though it may be a crude web site at least this person has tried to make a statement. It may be amateurish but it's way more than many "anti-slaughter" advocates have done. Who cares where the photos originated from, if you look closely or have followed any larger anti slaughter websites you will see many of these photos have been used before by well known groups such as the Humane Farming Association. These are clearly legitimate photos and they speak for themselves, they don't need endorsing by anyone. Why is it that so many of you sit there, the proverbial armchair experts,full of pessimism and you sit and systematically pull something that has good intentions to pieces. Instead of slamming the guy for spelling errors, poor continuity, misplaced information etc, why not try to view it for what it is, a picture show of what horses endure in slaughter houses. The information on non resident aliens was to make the point that many of these foreign owned plants do not pay income tax.
                                      I would have thought that the point of this thread was for "discussion" of the slaughter issues, not whether or not the fellow has an award winningly designed website.
                                      I agre with everything you said here. I think the fact that someone said that this was only posted for "shock value" has made it obvious that A) they don't understand the horrors and "shocK" that is the reality of horse slaughter and B) a link like this shoud be seen by more people so they WILL have an idea of how awful the reality really is.
                                      I also agree that is is pretty reasonable to expect that there will be several threads and discussions about horse slaughter on this BB or on any public forum that caters to horsepeople and anyone that doesn't like them or doesn't want to participate in them can just simply not read them and not participate in them. I'm a member here too and there are plenty of threads I'm just not interested in so I just don't open them. Being a member does NOT in any way FORCE anyone to read each and every thread so JSwan please just quit bitchin about it you're getting on alot of people's nerves with your arrogance. Just don't read these threads.
                                      Also I don't think that Susan P ws in any way trying to "censor" anything. I think the reason she said that there need nt be any discussiion about the link she posted was because she didn't want to start a war by posting it she simply wanted to make it available to those of us interested in seeing it. I think she knew how posting it could cause a trainwreck and was trying to make it clear that this was not her intention.
                                      To Susan P and Horseandhound please don't let people like JSwan get under your skin. I think she only participates in threads to cause trouble and as somene else said here; to "read between the lines" whenever she reads a thread she doesn't like or agree with and then conjures up things that were never said and often have no basis in reality. Just ignore her.
                                      Thanks for posting the link. I think in light of the fact that the is currently new legislature being deceided on the public needs as much information as possible from bth sides to be able to make an informed choice on where they want to cast their vote.
                                      Last edited by MoonBallad; Jun. 19, 2006, 02:05 AM. Reason: spelling correction
                                      http://www.cafepress.com/hoplitefund

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        tend to agree with moon ballard

                                        look its not about wether its a cow steak or horse sorry to be blunt

                                        its about being humane ---

                                        yes we all might eat meat/plants for the vegeis


                                        but if we want to change the world from live meat transport and i say live meat rather than horses --in themself.

                                        then what sp has done is to make you all aware of a site thats trying to make a point-

                                        the point being -- we all know it happens but do it in a humane way-- thats a big difference to how it done now--

                                        and once you can address the samller issues eachand everyone that prop up eventuallly the bigger issues get addressed to--
                                        it cant happen over night it takes yonks as like now in uk we dont do it no more -- live meat - that includes sheep cows horses

                                        so the fight is and point is -- you can do it but do it humanely
                                        and treat the animals with respect--

                                        and the only way that you can help to do this is by making others aware of the truth-- and bb are a away of getting a lot of people - opnions and views
                                        if they agree to them they do something about it if not they dont-- simple

                                        but in order to start making things humane then it has to start at the kill pens . markets sales . and shipping -- whatever

                                        that each and every horse is ascitaned -- to his/ or her welfare..
                                        making sure they are pen seprately -- have water have food
                                        are check over by vets on arrival
                                        are checked by an animal welfare group at every time and place

                                        and are checked for anything that isnt for human cumsuption ie if the horse is full of drug for cancer maybe--

                                        and to do as many petitions as you can so each state is aware
                                        and to present it to your local congressman-- in that state
                                        fights and points of view arnt one by one person or one group
                                        the groups . people . states as in states like counties, have to join together and fight the fight or point-- as one very large group-- then it can stop --

                                        address the little things then its starts to make a dent in the bigger issues

                                        respect and humanely -- thats what most people want---

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          ffor all animals cows sheep and horses dont just make horses on point of view
                                          make it for all then -- it stops

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