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Just bought a roarer...WWYD?

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  • Just bought a roarer...WWYD?

    A couple of months ago I bought myself a nice OTTB that the trainer advertised as "sound." (I still have the ad to prove it.) I of course asked why he was selling him and he told me he couldn't get him to run the way he wanted. I gave him a month off and started him slowly. When I started cantering and teaching him to go on the bit, it became obvious he was a roarer. I had a vet look at him today and got a definite diagnosis.

    I am not going to be able to compete him like I planned, and his resale value in this market is practically gone. Do you think I have a legal claim against the trainer? I am sure he knew about this; it didn't just happen overnight. I would keep the horse if he doesn't want him back but I don't feel he was worth the money I paid.

  • #2
    How bad is the roaring? In what way has it affected him in his training so far other then being noisy? Does he show any signs of reduced stamina?

    I ask, because I bought a roarer too. It was no secret in my case, it showed up in the PPE, but that did not knock off anything of his price.
    Horse is totally able to perform, just a tad noisy.
    As an eventer or racehorse, I think it can be problematic, other disciplines, depending on the severity of the roaring, it doesn't have to be all that much of a problem.

    What are you plans for this horse, what discipline, level?
    Last edited by Lieslot; Jul. 1, 2009, 05:45 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by FormerShowHunter View Post
      A couple of months ago I bought myself a nice OTTB that the trainer advertised as "sound." (I still have the ad to prove it.) I of course asked why he was selling him and he told me he couldn't get him to run the way he wanted. I gave him a month off and started him slowly. When I started cantering and teaching him to go on the bit, it became obvious he was a roarer. I had a vet look at him today and got a definite diagnosis.

      I am not going to be able to compete him like I planned, and his resale value in this market is practically gone. Do you think I have a legal claim against the trainer? I am sure he knew about this; it didn't just happen overnight. I would keep the horse if he doesn't want him back but I don't feel he was worth the money I paid.
      Did you do a PPE before you bought him? And being a roarer doesn't necessarily make him "unsound". It's buyer beware and that's the risk you take. There are vet procedures to fix the roaring issue - a friend of mine just had it done on her OTTB and she's fine w/ it. The previous owner may not have known about it - horses change hands very fast at the track and they don't always know the issues (if any even exist) in a horse they get from another trainer, etc.
      Last edited by ryansgirl; Jul. 1, 2009, 08:05 PM.
      "When a horse greets you with a nicker & regards you with a large & liquid eye, the question of where you want to be & what you want to do has been answered." CANTER New England

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      • #4
        It's an "unsoundness" in a hunter. Race people don't love it if it keeps the horses from getting enough air, but otherwise, lots of disciplines don't find it that big of a deal. Is he exercise intolerant? Is having it surgically corrected that big an issue for you?
        Trinity Hill Farm

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        • #5
          Originally posted by RioTex View Post
          It's an "unsoundness" in a hunter. Race people don't love it if it keeps the horses from getting enough air, but otherwise, lots of disciplines don't find it that big of a deal. Is he exercise intolerant? Is having it surgically corrected that big an issue for you?
          Good point about hunters - depends on the discipline. "Sound" to a trainer typically means they aren't lame but you never know what underlying condition they have that is why a PPE is always recommended.
          "When a horse greets you with a nicker & regards you with a large & liquid eye, the question of where you want to be & what you want to do has been answered." CANTER New England

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          • #6
            Did the vet say he wouldn't be able to perform? Have you considered tieback surgery-the success rate isn't 100%, but when it is successful, your hourse should be able to perform in any discipline.

            As others asked, what are your plans for the horse? is he otherwise sound and quiet-perhaps good for a lower level rider where the roaring won't affect performance?

            My horse is a roarer, and the only way it affects him is that I have to be careful to keep him fit-if he isn't, it's harder on him. He's a lower level dressage horse, but was a working ranch horse previously, and those horses work long, hard hours.

            Comment


            • #7
              did you have him vetted? did you ask to get previous vet records from the seller? Sounds like it would have turned up on the vetting. I don't know how you could prove the seller knew anything, unless they falsified records you asked for. Most horses are sold "as is" so you may be out of luck. sorry!

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Unsoundness covers wind too...at least it used to. He is a grade 4, which is the worst. And I've heard this can cause future problems as well. I don't have a problem with keeping the horse, but I think the price should be reduced as he is not what was advertised. I had planned to show him as a hunter initially, but then I also had someone that wanted to purchase him as an eventer. The vet said he would not be an eventing prospect.

                I did not do a PPE; anyone who buys from the backstretch knows this is not always possible. I have not worked him hard enough yet to say if he is exercise intolerant, but he seems to get a little nervous when I ask for a little vertical flexion, as I think this blocks his airway more.

                I would do the surgery but the complications and long term prognosis sounds worse than just leaving him and letting him find a less strenuous job. He is a sweet horse and I really want to do right by him but I feel this trainer misrepresented him to me.

                Comment


                • #9
                  This feels like deja vu...

                  I'd say without a PPE you don't have much claim. That, and the fact that you are looking to pursue this "a couple of months" after purchase!
                  We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

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                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by HenryisBlaisin' View Post
                    Did the vet say he wouldn't be able to perform? Have you considered tieback surgery-the success rate isn't 100%, but when it is successful, your hourse should be able to perform in any discipline.

                    As others asked, what are your plans for the horse? is he otherwise sound and quiet-perhaps good for a lower level rider where the roaring won't affect performance?

                    My horse is a roarer, and the only way it affects him is that I have to be careful to keep him fit-if he isn't, it's harder on him. He's a lower level dressage horse, but was a working ranch horse previously, and those horses work long, hard hours.

                    Yes, I have considered tieback surgery but this can lead to bigger problems from what I have read. I would just put him up for sale myself, but OTTBs are a dime a dozen around here and a green roarer isn't the best sale prospect.

                    He is only 4 and he is a grade 4 roarer...total paralysis.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The rescue I volunteer at got a horse in who was a roarer. He had a procedure using a laser to cut out the offending aretynoid (they were just going to tie it back but apparently it was too thick). He's just fine now, except since he's missing one of his "vocal cords" he doesn't quite whinny properly and they have to be careful to watch him and make sure he doesn't aspirate his food but as far as being able to work goes, he's great, just went on two long trail rides recently over fairly uneven ground.
                      The Trials and Jubilations of a Twenty-Something Re-rider
                      Happy owner of Kieran the mostly-white-very-large-not-pony.

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                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by luise View Post
                        did you have him vetted? did you ask to get previous vet records from the seller? Sounds like it would have turned up on the vetting. I don't know how you could prove the seller knew anything, unless they falsified records you asked for. Most horses are sold "as is" so you may be out of luck. sorry!
                        Racehorses are scoped almost periodically...I am sure vet records exist for this horse and they would show he was diagnosed before the trainer gave up on him. The trainer advertised him as "sound" and he is not; isn't that misrepresentation?

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by FlashGordon View Post
                          This feels like deja vu...

                          I'd say without a PPE you don't have much claim. That, and the fact that you are looking to pursue this "a couple of months" after purchase!
                          Why Deja Vu? Was this previously discussed?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I had a roarer also. In my opinion, if you want to show amateur hunters, it might make a difference in pinning order, but at 3ft or below, most likely nobody's going to throw you out of the ring! Some of the main criteria for an AA hunter is suitability and safety (unless you're going to the AAAAAA+++ shows and depending on the judge.) A lot of the larger horses 'make some noise' - it's common in TBs and WBs. Some judges may not like it, but most won't eliminate you. I think it's similar in lower level dressage.

                            Did you do a pre-purchase? I tend to agree with those who say you might not have legal recourse. Have you spoken with the trainer?

                            Given my thoughts above, rather than try to sell him as a green roarer, you might keep him for a while, put some time in on him, and be able to sell him as a trained hunter who 'makes a little noise' as the market recovers.

                            Also, are you sure it's roaring? May also be 'false nostrils' where the horse flutters his/her nostrils in a rhythmic way. I had a TB who did that - it was great to help with getting a good pace. Nevermind - looks like you've had a vet exam to confirm.
                            Last edited by MEP; Jul. 1, 2009, 06:04 PM. Reason: new posts w/more info
                            www.moranequinephoto.com
                            "If I am fool, it is, at least, a doubting one; and I envy no one the certainty of his self-approved wisdom."
                            Byron

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                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by analise View Post
                              The rescue I volunteer at got a horse in who was a roarer. He had a procedure using a laser to cut out the offending aretynoid (they were just going to tie it back but apparently it was too thick). He's just fine now, except since he's missing one of his "vocal cords" he doesn't quite whinny properly and they have to be careful to watch him and make sure he doesn't aspirate his food but as far as being able to work goes, he's great, just went on two long trail rides recently over fairly uneven ground.
                              The complications are what worries me down the road...someone just told me the story of her roarer getting aretynoid chrondrosis (sp?) and I've heard stories of choking or of paralysis of the other flap. My horses eat in a field with others and they do tend to bolt their food due to competition. I'm not in a position to stall board him right now.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by MEP View Post
                                I had a roarer also. In my opinion, if you want to show amateur hunters, it might make a difference in pinning order, but at 3ft or below, most likely nobody's going to throw you out of the ring! Some of the main criteria for an AA hunter is suitability and safety (unless you're going to the AAAAAA+++ shows and depending on the judge.) A lot of the larger horses 'make some noise' - it's common in TBs and WBs. Some judges may not like it, but most won't eliminate you. I think it's similar in lower level dressage.

                                Also, are you sure it's roaring? May also be 'false nostrils' where the horse flutters his/her nostrils in a rhythmic way. I had a TB who did that - it was great to help with getting a good pace.
                                I wish it was false nostrils..I tried telling myself that for the first few rides! I had him scoped and he has total paralysis.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  What does your contract say about soundness? Are there any reps and warranties? Is there an as is, with all faults, etc. clause? Is there a "this is the whole contract" clause?

                                  Imho, buying race horses straight off the track with no PPE is a gamble- and they wouldn't call it that if you always win.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    The 14 page thread on Horse Care last week about the OTTB who turned out to be a cribber and also potentially lame.... same story... might be worth reading.

                                    http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum...d.php?t=208973
                                    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      If it's a nice horse and you think he'll be able to do what you want, why not get the surgery done? I know you've mentioned that you are fearful of complications, but I think these occur less often that you think. Our OTTB had a tie-back done at the track, is now 14, and has had no problem at all. Never choked, no noise, and no sign of any problems.

                                      Why not just check with your vet and see what he/she recommends? For the majority of horses, the tie-back is a one-time procedure that fixes the problem. Just be thankful you don't have something that isn't fixable, like the pharyngeal peresis my 5 y.o. has. Bye bye, eventing career.
                                      Some nights I stay up cashing in my bad luck; some nights I call it a draw. -- fun.

                                      My favorite podcasts: Overdue, The Black Tapes, Tanis, Rabbits, How Did This Get Made?, Up and Vanished.

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                                      • #20
                                        fast answer

                                        Had a roarer. did the surgery. turned him into a perfectly lovely Adult Hunter/Adult jumper. COuld have done faaaaar more if I could ride better.

                                        Also have a wall full of tricolors and Year Ends from the very competitve Fairfield/Westchester PHA in NY. Horse showed at BBBBIIIIG shows with the roar. didn't bother the judges one bit, it seems.

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