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NH or no NH...and why?

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  • #41
    If you are tired of this board, The Pile would love to have you.

    PT me for the address.
    Grab mane and kick on!

    http://www.ashleykriegeleventing.com/

    Comment


    • #42
      I'm going to be another one who takes this thread seriously, and say that it seems that most NH vitriol seems to be aimed at Senor Parelli and his kind. And that's pretty much self explanatory.

      Is John Lyons considered NH? I think of Natural Horsemanship, as distinct from plain old horsemanship, as being cloaked in games and cutesy phrases and tools. JL is too fond of the round pen and bridle to fit that mold, IMO. Lyons is one who seems to have some sense, but his constant preaching and whoring his name out to companies work my nerves. "America's Most Trusted Horseman" (tm) *snerk*

      Comment


      • #43
        Count me in as a very Proud Conservative - it is strange considering my background. Oh anyway, I think that the bb is silly about dimissing NH as being a crackpot. It is just like me telling you that this ONE method of teaching is good for ALLL children! Geez, there are many different methods of teaching appropriate for such children.

        I think - here I STRESS - think that NH is good for some horses and not good for other horses.

        I do admit that I have a very short attention span and do not care if you condenm me for that. It does me a world of good because then I get to skim through all the silliness and focus on the meat of this posting.

        I do not know much about NH except on what I can do with my horses. It works WELL with my neurotic Arab, Abby but NH does not do well with SillySunny and Fairy. I am using traditional method of training Sillysunny and Fairy. NH does teach me to be patient, to be more on the lookout for Abby's behavior, to understand what Abby is saying, etc. etc. I no longer have to use the "Kohlrabi" stick because I do not need to worry about Abby giving me deathly kicks anymore. She used to do that with my trainer and myself. Abby is now much happier and is more connected with me. I am grateful for the NH training. However, I'm not done with the training and will always refer to COTH for help with trainings for days to come.

        I cannot use NH with Sillysunny and Fairy as they do not respond without me resorting to violence which I abdor to no end.

        Alysheba, please do not quit this BB. We need you for your insights, opinions, expertise, etc. Please tell your friends that also.
        Will get a dream horse!
        More riding, swimming, and rowing, less posting

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by alysheba
          What on earth are you talking about???????????? Questions aren't allowed??? God, are ALL of you ppl NUTS!!??


          Here's a PM I got from another member who has "exited" this board b4 she ever got out of "Greenie"

          "Thanks for the advise. I've already decided this BB is too nasty for me"

          Or another guy, who put a link from this BB in another BB (which is how I found it). I asked him why I haven't seen him in here and he said "Are you kidding? Those people are psychotic!"

          I am really starting to see what he is talking about.

          I have never seen ANY message board where the Admin had to interfere so much. And I go on the hard core Political chat boards..you want to see riled up ppl? Talk religion, politics and gay marriage. But you guys, I have to say..make those boards look like a petty kindergarden arguements over crayons.

          To the few ppl in here that aren't infected with the "rabies" these ppl seem to have...You are awesome! The rest of you nutcases....have a GREAT life..I feel sorry for your horses, and your husbands....those of you whos husbands havent LEFT you yet!!!!

          Alysheba out.
          I have read over here for a very long, long time and not posted. What you have just written about people in the above post is exactly my thoughts about you from the posts you have written. Just reading what you write makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck, it is very confrontational, biased, and snotty, and you just sit there and dig yourself deeper and deeper.

          When I first opened this post and read what you wrote, it sounded to me like you were trying to start trouble,
          Hey guys, I've seen a lot of anti NH stuff in these threads (usually hunter/eventer/dressage

          I'm wondering why the animosity? Do some ppl think its a scam?
          in your own words you singled out hunter/eventer/dressage people, plain and simple why would any of those people answer you honestly when you just IMHO slammed them like that?

          NH (the horse training jargon, not the state I just moved from) is based on old time horse training that has been around for a long time. You need to look at the whole program minus as everyone else has stated "the phoo-phoo fancy packaging" and add the parts that may work for your/your horse, and add them to your training program.

          Comment


          • #45
            Bark Bark Bark growl growl!

            Can we learn to refer to the questions on the original posting? If we learn not to criticize the others, then BB will be less inflamatory and it becomes more entertaining, fun, and exciting. If you do not like those trolls' posting, say nothing!

            Just refer to what is being asked.
            Will get a dream horse!
            More riding, swimming, and rowing, less posting

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by Prieta
              Bark Bark Bark growl growl!

              Can we learn to refer to the questions on the original posting? If we learn not to criticize the others, then BB will be less inflamatory and it becomes more entertaining, fun, and exciting. If you do not like those trolls' posting, say nothing!

              Just refer to what is being asked.
              Between this and SBT's post, its a tie for most intelligent posting! It is so hard not to poke that little red button though isn't it?

              To answer the OP, go back and read SBT's post. No one is gunna sum it up better than that.

              Comment


              • #47
                I love New Hampshire. Anyone who doesn't hasn't been to Lake Winnipesaukee. Gorgeous. Oh, you mean natural horsemanship. I think it is one of the best marketing ploys lately. Horsemanship is horsemanship. You don't need to call it "natural' and then charge more $$$ for your "knowledge".

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by oldledgefarm
                  NH (the horse training jargon, not the state I just moved from) is based on old time horse training that has been around for a long time. You need to look at the whole program minus as everyone else has stated "the phoo-phoo fancy packaging" and add the parts that may work for your/your horse, and add them to your training program.

                  So agree with this -
                  I've been involved with horses now for over 40 years (OH MY GAWD! I can't be this old!) - and absorbed a lot of knowledge and lore from many different types of horsemen.
                  A few new 'horsey' friends were all going to a NH Clinic and I tagged along. As we left a few were glowing about the demonstration, the rest of us rather silent. When asked my opinion I simply stated that most of it was simply common horse sense with alot of silly marketing, and the rest of the 'training practices' just not my style or something I would be comfortable with.
                  Suffice it to say I was not impressed in the least and thought it a waste of my money.
                  Bridal Sweet 05/28/1983 to 01/23/2008


                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Alysheba - I don't understand what you meant about the moderators. They don't post much at all. Actually - they seem like pretty good eggs.

                    And I don't think the BB is nasty at all - but if a person posts about a controversial subject - well - nastiness is to be expected at some point.

                    Like if I went to a conservative Republican BB and posted that I think gay marriage should be lawful and abortion should be available upon demand...well - let's just say the fur would fly. If I posted the same question on a liberal BB I could get snoring icons in response.

                    You want to feel ganged up on - trying posting a defense to foxhunting to a group of AR types. Now THAT is like a war zone.

                    As far as NH - I don't like folks bundling up lots of good old fashioned horse sense, renaming it, reinventing it, smearing glitter all over it, and selling it for a pretty penny to an unwitting public - who then eats it all up and goes home to "NH" their horses to the point it's completely ruined- but follow their particular NH guru like a Grateful Dead groupie.

                    You'd have to be a sharp cookie to separate the wheat from the chaff on this NH stuff. The kohlrabi stick is a gimmick - it's a standard piece of equipment on any farm - and you can get it at the feed store for about 5$.

                    If your discpline requires your horse to wear a swimming pool on its back - then fine. Or if you're having a particular problem with respect, or loading, etc - then yeah - some of that stuff may help get over an issue you're having. (especially those of us who are isolated from other horse people, or professionals that might be able to help).

                    But the whole carrotstickglitzymarketingsnakeoilexpensiveclinics questionablemethods - nah - if you believe all that stuff I have a bridge to sell you.
                    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                    -Rudyard Kipling

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      And another thought, as someone with a high IQ, I'm sure you'll appreciate this, but people tend to respond nicer to folks who don't use dumb, childlike abbreviations. Try writing 'people' instead of 'ppl'- it changes your tone quite a bit.Anytime you feel the desire to shortcut and write 'u' instead of 'you' it changes your tone and makes you come across as less intelligent, which makes you more prone to 'attack'

                      As for NH, I have no comments on the actual trainers and practices. I have, however, seen some people who are adherents to these methods, and they really scare me.

                      There was a nice TB for sale at my last farm- absolutely the most tolerant and lovely horse. He was easy to handle and ride, and liked people. One day a NH person and her NH trainer came out to look at him. They spent something like 45 minutes just prodding at him and poking at him, and then when the lady finally got on, she was scared to do more than walk around the ring.

                      On the one hand, that's fine- everybody starts somewhere and not everyone is confident, and that's OK. But seeing as she had been training with this NH person for over a year, it was a little sad to think she really didn't know anything and was basically afraid of this saint of a horse.

                      I also see a lot of NH people grandstanding. Great- you can stand on the horse's back. Wonderful. And this is good why, exactly? Standing on your horse's kidneys really makes you look like a professional, I guess.
                      Last edited by caffeinated; Jun. 8, 2006, 09:52 AM. Reason: grrrr! some sort of error in the editing box is screwing up things like paragraph breaks and I have to code them in html.
                      "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

                      My CANTER blog.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by J Swan
                        Alysheba - I don't understand what you meant about the moderators. They don't post much at all. Actually - they seem like pretty good eggs.
                        Maybe she just sees more of them in her threads than the rest of us?

                        On the NH I really enjoy the Dorrance Brothers and use the basic groundwork on my horses. It gives them a nice foundation, and I love the concept of feel and learning to feel the feet. Once we get the basic groundwork down, then we move onto more traditional methods with some NH stuff thrown in.

                        It is common sense, and the really devout followers of one person scare the crap outta me!

                        Steph

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by StefffiC
                          It is common sense, and the really devout followers of one person scare the crap outta me!
                          Oh, my, YES! I lurked on a Parelli mailing list for a time - many of the posts and posters were intelligent and open minded, but there were a few that were absolutely scary. Some people tolerated NO questioning of the Parelli way at all, and God forbid someone should suggest using non-Parelli equipment. They would get semi-hysterical over it. "Pat says DO IT THIS WAY!"

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Scam? Now why would we think it a scam?

                            Just because the Parelli "carrot stick" can be purchased at any farm supply store as a hog herding stick at 10% of the carrot stick price?

                            Or because most on this BB RIDE their horses and certain of the NH practioners don't seem to be able to teach owners to do this? But do advocate endless hours on the ground playing games for those too scared of their horse to ride it?

                            Or because we don't want to ride ours over picnic benches with no bridle or INTO a trailer?

                            Or because certain other practioners make like Halloween and tout Native American mysticism and sort of leave out their own distinctly urban background?

                            Can't imagine......
                            When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                            The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by Percheron X
                              OK..... hand over the kohlrabi before someone gets hurt....

                              Kohlrabi is not a toy, it takes years of experience under the supervision of an expert to learn to handle kohlrabi in a safe and responsible manner.

                              Many horses suffer each year at the hands of well meaning people who believe they are in control of the kohlrabi. These people are usually given kohlrabi by unscrupulous kohlrabi con artists, and brainwashed into handing over large sums of money believing that kohlrabi is the answer to all their desires.

                              Kohlrabi does have its legitimate uses, when properly washed, and cut into small pieces, it makes a tasty addition to a salad or can be steamed and served with melted butter as a delicious side dish to a main course.

                              Remember, if anyone other than a licensed grocer offers to sell you kohlrabi, run 20 steps to the Northeast and then "Duck and Cover", this is the only method endorsed by the AKPG to prevent an unhealthy exposure to kohlrabi, the addiction, and the madness that inevitably affects those who are unwittingly seduced by the kohlrabi's power to make it's users feel superior over all others.

                              Please help us put a stop to kohlrabi abuse today.

                              This has been a public service message from the Anti Kohlrabi Proliferation Group.
                              Holy Crap (minus 10)!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I bow to you PercheronX, 13 kohlrabi in one post!!!

                              Admit it, you're just one of those people who like seeing the word kohlrabi in print over and over again. I bet you say it to yourself time after time... I really like the word lunch...luuunnnchh....LUNCH...lllllluuuuuunnnnnccc cchhhh....wonderful word lunch, and all that goes with it.... sorry

                              Editted to fix spelling, and to say, did you notice how I chose the wonderful pale green that real kohlrahbi are to highlight the word
                              "Riding: the art of keeping a horse between yourself and the ground."

                              ~Horsebiters Clique Founder~Drafties~The A Team~Anti-Kohlrahbi Proliferation Group~Elite Closet Canterer...by proxy~

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by J Swan

                                Like if I went to a conservative Republican BB and posted that I think gay marriage should be lawful and abortion should be available upon demand...well - let's just say the fur would fly. If I posted the same question on a liberal BB I could get snoring icons in response.
                                And just to show you we're not all the same, I'm one fairly conservative Republican who would tend to agree with a lot of what you said. But I also agree if you went to such a BB, you'd be seen as fanning the flames and treated as such. Good point.


                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  I've used some of the "NH" techniques (that I learned from a North Dakotan cowboy a loooooonnnnnnnggggggggg time ago) - most of them are just common sense. I've watched Parelli, Lyons, Roberts and the like and the good I see in them is that they are teaching people that violence is not the way to go. Okay - that's fine.

                                  What they can't teach people is feel. They can't teach people how to "know" when a horse is ready to do something. They teach it as a step by step program, but as anyone who has ever done anything with horses knows - it's not as easy as that. Some horses go 12345, others go 1, 1 1/2, 2, 2 1/4, 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 3....

                                  Feel is very hard to teach, and as a trainer I worked *VERY* hard with people to try to get them to gain some. You can't get it from a book, a video, a clinic or a magikal kohlrabi stick.

                                  I've worked with a lot of spoiled horses, both NH trained and not. Seems like the only magic involved is to get the owners who think they know how to train but don't, a clue. Just my 2 1/2 cents.
                                  Meet Wendall the wonder horse
                                  and introducing Machado! http://pets.webshots.com/photo/28186...SDi?vhost=pets

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Alysheba, you came, you saw, you posted with all the finesse of a herd of bulls in a china shop, you inspired the dislike of many... and now you come back, have a (presumably) legitimate question and (presumably) have learned your old approach is wrong...

                                    That's fair enough, but old memories die hard. People might possibly be suspicious of your motives. You certainly leaped to the defensive and promptly went on the attack so why is it you think others should behave differently than you?

                                    Here's how it is going to play out whether you like it or not. 1. You keep your cool and ignore people. Try to pose reasonable questions and don't attack when people question your motives. Eventually old memories will die and you might learn something. 2. You behave as you have been and unless you have a masochistic streak, this will continue to be a fairly miserable place for you. We won't much enjoy your presence either.

                                    You pick, it's your 1's and 0's...

                                    As for your original question, as SBT said it's good old fashioned common sense wrapped up in a slick marketing package. I think a lot of us use NH. We might not call it NH but trust me, if you are succesful at training a horse you already picked up on most of the horsespeak out there without haveing a fancy halter and twirly rope. But I love trainers like Buck Brannaman who give this "join up" concept all the attention it's worth. After spending a few minutes working a young horse, it "joined up". Buck rather sagely noted that this was nice but you still had to ride the horse, and pretty much mocked anyone who ended with this step (not mentioning old Monty by name).

                                    So then he went on to give some much more useful and practical advice about how to do that "riding" part (complete with Aaron Vale as his "student"). Now that is someting I can work with. (For those of you who are interested that was part of the Three Masters series)
                                    Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by fatmare
                                      Oh, my, YES! I lurked on a Parelli mailing list for a time - many of the posts and posters were intelligent and open minded, but there were a few that were absolutely scary. Some people tolerated NO questioning of the Parelli way at all, and God forbid someone should suggest using non-Parelli equipment. They would get semi-hysterical over it. "Pat says DO IT THIS WAY!"
                                      I've worked in many barns, right now I'm at a sizeable ASB show barn. I know the show horses are high strung, but they're not out to harm people. The Parelli horse in the barn... it's a different story. No respect for me, my space, nothing.

                                      There's good horsemanship and there is NH BS. My farrier and I were talking Monday when he came about the NH fad. He said some/most/many NH horses abuse him and the owners refuse to correct them.

                                      Steph

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        [quote=caffeinated]And another thought, as someone with a high IQ, I'm sure you'll appreciate this, but people tend to respond nicer to folks who don't use dumb, childlike abbreviations. Try writing 'people' instead of 'ppl'- it changes your tone quite a bit.Anytime you feel the desire to shortcut and write 'u' instead of 'you' it changes your tone and makes you come across as less intelligent, which makes you more prone to 'attack'
                                        quote]

                                        Thank you!
                                        I wanted to ask if ppl meant people, as I was not sure. Why use silly abbreviations that people might not understand?

                                        I agree with the group on the natural horsemanship thing, anyone who markets a training technique that works for ALL horses is full of it. Nothing works on all horses and it is dangerous that they make people think their way will work on all horses.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          I think this week I'm going to change my training methods from "a dressage based approach" to "organic horsemanship" and double my rates.

                                          I think that if I throw my dressage whip away and exchange it for a bamboo pole, my horses will feel much more in touch with nature. You can purchase these "happy poles" from me for the low price of $59.95. And forget about using leather and nylon tack - everything we use here in the OH program is braided from hemp.

                                          Comment

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