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Not too happy w/my riding instructor yesterday...

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  • No joke, it's a scam!

    Do people actually buy that bull? That seems like the worst deal ever, in addition to being a big fat lie, and I wouldn't touch that ad with a 10 foot pole! Not a chance!!
    Originally posted by tidy rabbit
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by cosmos mom
      Someone is gettin' their come uppins !!!
      Second wonderful laugh of the thread for me!

      Steph

      Comment


      • Bravo Bravo! This is by far the most entertaining thread I've ever read. It just keeps getting better and better! I've got my lawn chair, my shades, and will take one of those margaritas please. Hopefully I can keep from spewing it all over my monitor.

        Carry on. This is beautiful.
        Yogurt - If you're so cultured, how come I never see you at the opera? Steven Colbert

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ExJumper
          No joke, it's a scam!

          Do people actually buy that bull? That seems like the worst deal ever, in addition to being a big fat lie, and I wouldn't touch that ad with a 10 foot pole! Not a chance!!
          TOTAL scam. Lessee pays board, farrier, and vet. Lessee trains horse. Lessor's daughter must be allowed to come ride the horse "several days a week." Lessor lies to say this will be a mount for her daughter, but she really resells the animal once it's free training is complete.

          My goodness. That's no "recue" operation.


          Comment


          • Actually, it could be considered a clever business plan except for the $500 or $25/month. Horseless riders abound, and many get hung up on initial purchase without realising that's the cheapest aspect of ownership. A free lease wherein owner pays all bills save board isn't a bad deal if it's a full lease. However, IMO, sharing the horse means also sharing the board. Either way, the ad appears to be clear on the expectations, so I fail to see where there's any scam. Let's face it, most rescue organisations are basically only offering free leases to the people who adopt their horses. If they wanted to repossess the horse and sell it, they could. People sign the contracts anyway.
            "I did know once, only I've sort of forgotten." - Winnie the Pooh

            Comment


            • KNOCK IT OFF!!!!

              Respond to the thread in a constructive way, or shut up and sit on your hands. Anyone who keeps up with the piling-on is going to find themselves on a forced vacation from COTH.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by texan
                at my stage i need to concentrate on the basics, which
                is all about me and not the horse.
                One of the basics you need to concentrate on is that it is always about the horse, to a greater or lesser degree.
                Proud adopter of Win
                http://www.defhr.org
                Days End Farm Horse Rescue
                Protection for Horses - Education for People

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Aggie4Bar
                  Actually, it could be considered a clever business plan except for the $500 or $25/month. Horseless riders abound, and many get hung up on initial purchase without realising that's the cheapest aspect of ownership. A free lease wherein owner pays all bills save board isn't a bad deal if it's a full lease. However, IMO, sharing the horse means also sharing the board. Either way, the ad appears to be clear on the expectations, so I fail to see where there's any scam. Let's face it, most rescue organisations are basically only offering free leases to the people who adopt their horses. If they wanted to repossess the horse and sell it, they could. People sign the contracts anyway.

                  I agree!

                  If you look at it as an adoption fee it all makes more sense. I believe Alysheba is considering this a rescue operation of a sort. My advice to Alysheba would be; be honest with the people you are leasing your horses too and at the low price of $500 be careful they don’t end up back in the hands of kill buyers. And, perhaps it would be a much better deal for people if you split the cost of the horse while it is being trained for free. The dishonesty really negates anything good you are trying to accomplish with these OTTBs.
                  No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle. ~Winston Churchill

                  Comment


                  • THIS IS JUST CLASSIC!!!!

                    Deleted -- listen to the moderators' instructions next time.
                    “And live like you ain’t afraid to die. And don’t be scared, just enjoy your ride.” Chris Ledoux ~ The Ride

                    Comment


                    • So, LR1976 earned herself a vacation. Who else wants to join her on COTH's Exile Island?

                      Comment


                      • ok, i was going to be snarky---but I see Erin has put in the smackdown.

                        For having a high IQ, I would think that you could get the homophones correct--"he wasn't trained to hold a gate! ""...that would be gait, unless she was also training you to do trail work, in addition to not teaching you changes.

                        Someone many pages back had a very good point regarding language---what you got was a basics lesson. You cannot learn a language if you don't have the skills of say knowing what a verb, or a noun is.

                        You can't learn changes on a horse who isn't going forward. I have ridden for many many years---I have me on video with a german dressage instructor, and I swear every word out of his mouth is "more forward". I kid you not---we were cooking. But we were forward---everything come from forward.

                        have you ever skied? If you ski the fall line, you have more speed, and you can you gravity to help you---this forward momentum will also help you in riding.

                        I don't understand the aversion to the crop---hell, I only have to HOLD one, and my horse gets a whole new attitude adjustment. Not smacking, but just holding. But you can bet your bottom dollar that life is too short to sit and kick and get frustrated.

                        All you taught that horse was to ignore the leg aids. Congratulations---next time, a well timed smack behind your leg would most likely clean his clock and get his attention so you can move on to do what you need.

                        You have no right to whine here. You missed a golden opportunity to LEARN something, and all you did was bitch. You closed your mind off to learning how to handle a horse with an issue---"i don't want to go forward" is a pretty common ailment with a lot of horses. You blew it.

                        Next time, have a slice of humble pie, and buck up. Show up to your lesson, not intent on learning one thing---this is a progression sweetie. I've been at it for over 30 years---everything is a learning experience, even if it's not what you WANTED to be learning.

                        Get off your high horse and snotty attitude--if you want to learn, you have the opportunity. And besides, learning changes on an auto horse is stupid anyway--and please don't excuse not carrying a whip with being confused about legs---learning to feel a hind leg's movement so you know how to time your own leg aids is a hard process. Don't blame your incompetence on holding a whip.I t makes you look silly.

                        And can I just say? I haven't come here for a long time, but your posts have just given me new interest ---after your throwaway horse post, I found your sweeping generalizations amazing. I see you hasn't learned a thing, since you mentioned something vile about QH's and Paints. You might want to nix that stuff, the horse world is a very small one, and things like that, and bitching about your instructor on a public BB is kind of a bad thing. Just saying.....
                        Ellipses users clique ...
                        TGFPT,HYOOTGP

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          Originally posted by Aggie4Bar
                          Actually, it could be considered a clever business plan except for the $500 or $25/month. Horseless riders abound, and many get hung up on initial purchase without realising that's the cheapest aspect of ownership. A free lease wherein owner pays all bills save board isn't a bad deal if it's a full lease. However, IMO, sharing the horse means also sharing the board. Either way, the ad appears to be clear on the expectations, so I fail to see where there's any scam. Let's face it, most rescue organisations are basically only offering free leases to the people who adopt their horses. If they wanted to repossess the horse and sell it, they could. People sign the contracts anyway.
                          Thank you. I don't do it to make money. I on average lose between $200-$300 each time (BOARDING COSTS/TRAINERS FEE'S WHEN I RUN INTO A BIG PROBLEM). I started the program to help older children (who's parents don't have tons of money) have safe, well trained horses.

                          Yes the initial cost of the horse is the least expense, but the parents/young adults I work with are well aware of that (this is their childs 2nd or 3rd horse). I offer them so reasonably (or payment plans) so their parents dont have to take out a 2nd mortgage to buy their child an upgraded mount! Isnt that kind of...I don't know....noble?

                          Most of the flack I get is from breeders/trainers selling horses w/ the same abilities for 10 times as much. But what they don't realize is most of the parentd I work w/would never be able to buy a horse from them anyway. A lot of kids' horse dreams get stopped short because of their parents financial situation, and the price of well trained horses (not that they arent worth it)

                          The "for my daughter" is so I can come see, and ride the horse often-so it doesnt end up gone-at the slaughter house, ruined, etc.

                          Most of the ppl who take the lease option are older children, or young adults (late teens) ready for the upgrade, and they buy the horse when they are done.

                          I haven't had any problems so far.

                          And even rescue groups cant guarentee the lifetime safety of the horse, most do check ins for 1-5 years..after that, who knows?

                          We do the best we can, and pray for what we can't control.

                          By the way, some of you women are REALLY angry ppl! I can't BELIEVE some of the attacks I read, sure I get riled up now and then, but it is in defense of myself (the imfamous hunter post) or in the defense of someone else. I dont stalk the threads looking for prey to just pounce on!
                          I've got the 3 things men want. I'm hot, and I'm smart!

                          -The 6th Member Of The Bareback Riders Clique-

                          Comment


                          • [QUOTE=Showponymom Aefvue Mid Atlantic Division]Ah check out my daughters paint/QH doesn't look sluggish and jumps the spots off of many a horse!


                            Oh my - and I'd definitely call him sluggish too! After all - he's only halfway over that jump.......... Iffen he was a "real" (insert snob breed of choice here) horse, he'd be ALL the way over the jump!


                            And I was bound and determined to NOT respond - but my 25yo, Sundance (OMG - he's a mustang/QH cross, shudder shudder) will ignore and ignore and ignore - unless you're carrying (not using mind you, just carrying) a crop. BUT - he can also, to this day, spin out from under you so fast you're literally sitting in the air wondering where the h@ll the horse you were straddling went to! and I WISH my big grey QH would 'drop' his head a bit and get to be a tad more sluggish in the show ring..... I tend to spend most of my classes telling him sotto voice,I know damn good and well he CAN physically WALK!
                            "The way to gain a good reputation is to endeavor to be what you desire to appear" ~ Socrates

                            Comment


                            • The "for my daughter" is so I can come see, and ride the horse often-so it doesnt end up gone-at the slaughter house, ruined, etc.
                              I don't get this part- if it's a 'lease'- free or otherwise, couldn't you just put "visitation rights" and such in the contract? The leasor would not be able to take the horse to the auction since it doesn't belong to them anyway, and if it's stated in the contract that you can come visit, they can't refuse you.

                              I'm really not just trying to jump on you here, I just don't understand why lying to people is in any way necessary here- that's what contracts are for, I would think. Or is it just that people are less likely to lease the horse and pay for its upkeep if they know it's not really for your daughter?

                              There are some great books with sample contracts for all kinds of equine-related business, which might be helpful for you if you don't have them already.
                              "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

                              My CANTER blog.

                              Comment


                              • [QUOTE=alysheba]

                                Most of the flack I get is from breeders/trainers selling horses w/ the same abilities for 10 times as much. But what they don't realize is most of the parentd I work w/would never be able to buy a horse from them anyway. A lot of kids' horse dreams get stopped short because of their parents financial situation, and the price of well trained horses (not that they arent worth it)

                                See, this is the part that I don't understand. Okay, maybe these people can't afford horses at 10 times the price you offer them at. That's 5k. That's slightly less than the yearly upkeep for one of my horses. I think it's great if you are offering horses at a reasonable price, but quite honestly, if you can't afford a $5k horse, you probably can't truly afford ANY horse. I retrain OTTBs, I don't get them for free, and I generally need to sell them for about 3k to just break even if I train them for several months. With your program I would lose my shirt!

                                Comment


                                • alysheba, in all seriousness, how is offering a mare that has been "jumped on bareback" for 30 days (see http://horsetopia.horse-for-sale.org...fieds/ad117851) offering a good safe horse for older CHILDREN that cant afford more? This mare doesn't sound like anything I would put any of my children on without extensive training by a professional. What you are doing is trying to find free training for a cheap horse you picked up so that one day your daughter will have a safe horse to ride. I understand but I think you've twisted around what you are actually trying to accomplish and why. The mare you offered is not doing anyone any favors. You retain all the perks, they pay all the bills and after 2 years you hope they've trained her for you!

                                  Now, if you said you'd like to find a talented teen with not alot of money to help bring along a green mare potentially for your daughter one day, working out an acceptable arrangement, well, I'd find that a bit more respectable. IMHO, you'd be best off find a pony or a nice quiet QH-type right now for your daughter if you value her neck (isn't she very young? 6 maybe?) right now and leaving the OTTBs for much later.

                                  I fail to see how the mare you are offering is worth any more after your ownership than she was before you got her. Thirty days of bareback riding does not increase her value. There is a REASON those trainers you mentioned charge more for their animals. They put time, money and training into them. I realize that you don't need the money but this is how some people make a living. Selling Amway would be a much harder way to make a living if everyone did it, no?

                                  Comment


                                  • ok Aly, this was uncalled for....

                                    "I bet you were going to be snarky..is that your guys word 4 bitch?
                                    Because thats how you believe in getting your point across-refer to post 165.

                                    And while your at it, get a life...if you cant find one, I'll draw you a map.."


                                    that was my PT from Aly. I don't get it. I was very nice, and offered up concrete ideas for her. Where do you get off being so nasty? Who are "you guys?" I am one poster---just trying to give you some perspective from experience. I have not called you names, nor have I been mean or cruel. Don't take me on lady. Snarky meant that I was going to laugh---come on, you are supposedly a well educated, mensa member who is wealthy, according to yourself. Yet you put yourself in these positions by posting some inane stuff---but I didn't point it out, because others before did so so eloquently.

                                    What is your deal? I'm sorry, but if anyone gets banned here today, I think it should be YOU. You were rude and uncalled for by sending me that PT. I noted in another thread you tried to chase off someone else whose opinion you didn't share. It doesn't work that way, and if you think I was mean, you have another thing coming.

                                    Erin---please note this. I think my post was insightful and offered concrete ideas for getting a horse to move forward. Are you just annoyed that I mentioned your spelling mistakes? And what's with the "I'll draw you a map" comment? You don't know me from adam.
                                    Ellipses users clique ...
                                    TGFPT,HYOOTGP

                                    Comment


                                    • BelladonaLily - From what I gather, she is NOT actually looking for a horse to eventually be her daughter's mount. That is what she tells the lessee so that she may have vistation rights and so that (according to the ad) her daughter may have access to the horse to ride "several days a week." (This is my interpretation of her explanation here and on the other thread and from reading her ad).


                                      Comment


                                      • to the original post, while frustrating i learned to love riding those horses, it pointed out the gaping holes in my riding. i also think it is more ethical for a trainer to use a horse that needs training in a lesson as then both horse and rider get instruction and both learn something, compared to trying to lease green horses out to get them trained so when they are going well, the owner can step back in and take the horse back to sell as trained, unless of course that is the arrangement in the beginning
                                        many years ago i was a working student and had the chance to ride any of the schoolies, some were more difficult that others, then I bought my own horse and moved barns, i condifently told the new trainer, oh yes i can jump around a 3 ft course, at the time i was having some difficulty with my new horse but was sure it was the horse who didn't know a thing, well at my first lesson, the new trainer watched me ride for a while and said, you don't know how to get a proper forward walk froma horse so we will start there, i was a bit miffed but understood with clarity in that moment that the horse was right and i was wrong, it was the most valuable lesson i learned, i didn't jump for a number of months because i had to learn how to ride first. as i got better with my horse, i asked my trainer if she would let me ride her other sutdnets horses in lessons or if she had any other horses available that would give me some problems so that i could learn how to ride better, i looked forward to it, i was paying her to teach me to be a horsewoman

                                        Comment


                                        • Regarding the OP

                                          What bothers me the most about what was originaly posted is the not being willing to take a crop thing.

                                          As some others have said, I trust my trainer! If my trianer says I need to wear spurs or carry a crop I trust them that I need them. They know more about the horse than I do, they know more about my ability than I do (or lack of abilities really).

                                          If you do not trust your trainer to guide you with the simple things (do you need a crop or not with this horse) then I do not understand why you bother to take lessons with them? Why not look for a new trainer that you trust their opinion enough to believe them when they suggest a crop or such.

                                          Comment

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