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How far is too far for a farrier?

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  • #21
    Originally posted by ~DressageJunkie~
    Seriously, whats your problem?

    I didn't notice any of the marks untill he left, I didn't think the whip actually hit her (he took her into the paddock to lunge) I didn't know he hit her with the rasp, I thought it was his hand at first.

    You saying that I don't care if my horses get hurt is a load of crap, I care for these horses so much, they are my life. I don't pay the farrier to come and abuse my horses, this is the first time he laid a hand on her. You think I want him to abuse her, seeing her shy away is hurtful, just because someone hit her. It make me mad that I aska question and you jump on me about letting someone hit her, not much I am going to do as a kid and him being a BNT!

    So just because a farrier that I had recomended by several people to get away from a farrier that just made her feet worse, just because I cared about her to look for a new farrier I should have my horse taken away, because I didn't know what he did till after?

    Hmmm, what's my problem.... The fact that you let someone abuse your horse while you look on is my problem. You say that your horses are your life. You want the responsibility of owning them, then you have to take the responsibility of speaking for them. This post, in your own words states that you're not able to do that for them:

    not much I am going to do as a kid and him being a BNT!
    I will reiterate my point... If neither you or the farrier can differentiate between a horse testing it's limits, and legitamate fear, then NEITHER of you should be working around horses. I would hold you more responsible, as someone who's horses "are my life", you should know when your mare is feeling real fear. Apparently you did not

    AND, SERIOUSLY, THAT IS MY PROBLEM.
    "Riding: the art of keeping a horse between yourself and the ground."

    ~Horsebiters Clique Founder~Drafties~The A Team~Anti-Kohlrahbi Proliferation Group~Elite Closet Canterer...by proxy~

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    • #22
      You know what your farrier did was wrong, otherwise you would not be here questioning it and would be going on about your business. My first horse had been terribly abused before I got him, mostly by a farrier. This horse became so dangerous that he was almost headed for slaughter before I got him and it took MONTHS to get him to a place where a farrier could shoe him and this was ONLY if I held him and comforted/distracted him. EVERY time this horse got his feet done, until the day he died, was a traumatic experience for him - HE NEVER FORGOT. I am sorry but I find your post very disturbing and hope that you find someone experienced with horses to give you a lot of help and pray that you LISTEN to them or please - get out of horses, I don't think it is for you.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by ~DressageJunkie~
        What I am saying, find a farrier around here that doesn't smack a horse and costs less then $100 a shoe and I will switch.
        Wow....you just keep digging yourself in deeper... Seriously, if you ever go to court, don't try to defend youself, you'll end up with the maximum sentence.

        I see; it's just too darn expensive to get a good farrier, that knows how to treat a horse.

        Too bad it's your horses that have to suffer for your thriftyness.
        "Riding: the art of keeping a horse between yourself and the ground."

        ~Horsebiters Clique Founder~Drafties~The A Team~Anti-Kohlrahbi Proliferation Group~Elite Closet Canterer...by proxy~

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        • #24
          Originally posted by DancingHooves
          You know what your farrier did was wrong, otherwise you would not be here questioning it and would be going on about your business. My first horse had been terribly abused before I got him, mostly by a farrier. This horse became so dangerous that he was almost headed for slaughter before I got him and it took MONTHS to get him to a place where a farrier could shoe him and this was ONLY if I held him and comforted/distracted him. EVERY time this horse got his feet done, until the day he died, was a traumatic experience for him - HE NEVER FORGOT. I am sorry but I find your post very disturbing and hope that you find someone experienced with horses to give you a lot of help and pray that you LISTEN to them or please - get out of horses, I don't think it is for you.
          I second the notion...
          "Riding: the art of keeping a horse between yourself and the ground."

          ~Horsebiters Clique Founder~Drafties~The A Team~Anti-Kohlrahbi Proliferation Group~Elite Closet Canterer...by proxy~

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          • #25
            Let me tell you something DJ, if I EVER EVER saw a farrier even try to pull that cr** at my farm he would never be permitted anywhere near my horses EVER. I cannot believe you are seriously asking if that is appropriate treatment of a horse. I am sorry. I do not care WHAT the horse did. There is absolutely no justification for hitting a horse with a rasp -- let alone to the point of drawing blood. Besides, how on earth is that going to make the horse want to stand for the farrier? And backing a horse that is threatening to rear? Where did that come from?


            *I apologize if I happen to merely repeat what others said; I was too horrified by the OP's post to take the time to read through all the responses.
            Roseknoll Sporthorses
            www.roseknoll.net

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            • Original Poster

              #26
              Need4speed, if could I would board my horses at the best stable in the world, the best feed, the best grass, the best trainers. BUT I can't, not only is it that there are not farriers like that around here, even if I did fine one my parents wouldn't pay for, would I? Yes, if I had a job which I am looking for, but being 14 I can't drive morning and afternoon. And, it's just so bad since my horses don't suffer.

              And YankeeLawyer, I think you read it wrong. The farrier didn't back a horse threating to rear.
              -Lindsey

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              • #27
                Well, if you don't see what you did wrong, then I'm not able to tell you. I think the other posters have made several good statements about "what you did wrong."

                As far as this farrier being a BNT, well, BFD!!!! I don't suffer fools gladly, and have no problem speaking up when it concerns the welfare of my horse(s). I am their advocate. I am their voice. God blessed me with His creations, and I am their steward. This is a role I take very seriously.

                I know you are young, and intimidated by this person. If you let someone take advantage of your horses, which are your "life," then how will you handle a man if he tries to take advantage of YOU? Would you allow yourself to be treated in this manner?

                If you don't have the balls to stand up for your horses, then you better look deeply into yourself and see if you would have them, if needed, for yourself, or in the future, your children.

                If these horses are your life, then please assess how important your "life" truly is. I don't envy the hours of retraining you (or someone qualified) will have to do with this mare. It sounds like she already HAD trust issues, and you really let her down. Learn from it, and don't make the same mistake twice.
                Barbara www.customstockties.com
                Tulsa-QH; Schnickelfritz-Holsteiner; Atikus-Danish Warmblood; Buddy-QH/TB; Winston-Shire; Thomas-Percheron/TB; Mac-Belgian Draft, gone but never forgotten

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                • #28
                  FIRST: Can we back off the OP a triffle? Check the profile, she's all of 13!

                  SECOND: To Junkie: sweetie, you did ask for help, and you may get advice you didn't want to hear. That said, so far most of the folks who have tried to give you advice are ADULTS with more experience than you have time on the planet. You may want to bear that in mind.

                  I'm not going to say I don't have a temper. Nor will I lie and say I've never gotten cranky enough to wallop a horse. BUT if you've left an actual injury, cut, what ever, you've gone way, way too far!! And if a farrier did that to one of my horses, I'd freekin' kill him. Shoot, shovel and shut up.

                  Some horses DO need to be knocked around to straighten them out. Yup, been there, own that horse. BUT there must always be a limit, you must know when to stop! This dude DOES NOT know where that line is!! There is NEVER a reason to hit a horse with a rasp, ever!!! I don't give a rat's butt who this guy is or who he works for, he's a jerk.

                  You need to find a new farrier, yesterday. Tell them up front that there's been an issue and have him come out for a visit. Let her get to know him and realize he's not there to eat him. Yup, she's probably looking at this other farrier like he's a lion or something, and if she can't run away, she's going to defend herself. I'd even have him handle her feet with out a rasp or his tool box nearby, and without the apron. Seriously, no apron. Mares are not nearly as stupid as some people think and just seeing him put on the apron could trigger a response.

                  Bottom line, you need to find another approach, the beating the crap oout of her (which he DID do) obviously doesn't work!!

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                  • Original Poster

                    #29
                    Originally posted by Pat
                    FIRST: Can we back off the OP a triffle? Check the profile, she's all of 13!

                    SECOND: To Junkie: sweetie, you did ask for help, and you may get advice you didn't want to hear. That said, so far most of the folks who have tried to give you advice are ADULTS with more experience than you have time on the planet. You may want to bear that in mind.

                    I'm not going to say I don't have a temper. Nor will I lie and say I've never gotten cranky enough to wallop a horse. BUT if you've left an actual injury, cut, what ever, you've gone way, way too far!!

                    Some horses DO need to be knocked around to straighten them out. Yup, been there, own that horse. BUT there must always be a limit, you must know when to stop! This dude DOES NOT know where that line is!! There is NEVER
                    I didn't hit the horse, the farrier did, please read the first post
                    -Lindsey

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                    • #30
                      So Pat, who's responsible for the horses? The parents, or the child? Should I be giving crap to the parents instead? It does make it tough.

                      At that age, how can she be responsible for 2 horses? Answer... she can't.

                      Now I feel bad for e-yelling at a 13 year old. I should be e-yelling at her parents.
                      "Riding: the art of keeping a horse between yourself and the ground."

                      ~Horsebiters Clique Founder~Drafties~The A Team~Anti-Kohlrahbi Proliferation Group~Elite Closet Canterer...by proxy~

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                      • #31
                        Oh for cripes sake, Junkie, it was a 'GENERIC' YOU, not you specifically!!! Calm down for a freekin' minute. I did read the first post, did you?

                        Honestly, if your horses aren't worth a few more bucks every six weeks for a farrier that DOESN'T do them bodily harm, than maybe 2 horses are outside the budget.

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                        • #32
                          If I hit 'SEND" too early again, I'm going to scream!

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                          • #33
                            She may only be 14, but she posts often enough about this kind of thing that she should know what our answers will be by now. For the most part, it is always "You should NOT have horses"
                            Anyway, 14 is old enough to be able to know right from wrong. And you can't convince me otherwise. (BTW, I am only 3 years older than her)
                            My CANTER cutie Chip and IHSA shows!
                            http://www.youtube.com/kheit86

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                            • Original Poster

                              #34
                              Need4speed, I don't see why you need to be yelling or giving crap to anyone. My parent's are new to horses, when they had horses it wasn't the best treatment as it is today.

                              Instead...
                              -you could help by giving advice on how to get Sheza used to being worked with my a farrier...
                              -Offer advice to where to find farriers
                              -what should a farrier do when the horses backs and just pulls away?
                              -Lindsey

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Need4speed
                                So Pat, who's responsible for the horses? The parents, or the child? Should I be giving crap to the parents instead? It does make it tough.

                                At that age, how can she be responsible for 2 horses? Answer... she can't.

                                Now I feel bad for e-yelling at a 13 year old. I should be e-yelling at her parents.
                                Oh, you can still yell, I said back off, not quit.

                                Yes, the parents need a little waking up too. Would they let this guy treat thier kid like this?

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by ~DressageJunkie~
                                  Need4speed, I don't see why you need to be yelling or giving crap to anyone. My parent's are new to horses, when they had horses it wasn't the best treatment as it is today. HUH? So, way back when it was ok to beat horses? What are you trying to say?
                                  Instead...
                                  -you could help by giving advice on how to get Sheza used to being worked with my a farrier... well, I did....

                                  -Offer advice to where to find farriers start asking other people in your area, we can't possibly be the only horse people you know.

                                  -what should a farrier do when the horses backs and just pulls away? Well, for one, beating with a rasp is what NOT to do.
                                  You need to start from square one. She will pick up her feet for you, so you could try tapping her feet with a hammer. You don't actually do anything, just tap. Go from there.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by ~DressageJunkie~
                                    Sheza just wouldn't let the farrier pick up her legs, yet I could pick them all up, hold them for a minute while she stood pretty much ground tied. Went back to the farrier and she was still acting up, pulling back, not holding still, so he backs her up fast making her run backwords and smacks her in the ribs with the rasp, so hard you could hear the thud. He ended up doing that a few more times, then took her and lunged her, which she reared and charged at him to, but he was bigger and got her lunging nicely, like she use to. .

                                    I understood this to mean that she was, among other things, backing and threatening to rear. If a horse is panicking and backing like that, you can bet that if you "back[] her up fast making her run backwards" that she will in fact rear. And the few times I have seen people who don't know what they are doing respond to a rearing horse by trying to make them back again, the horse flipped over. You don't correct a horse that is evading by backing/threatening to rear/rearing by backing them more.
                                    Roseknoll Sporthorses
                                    www.roseknoll.net

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by ~DressageJunkie~
                                      Need4speed, I don't see why you need to be yelling or giving crap to anyone. My parent's are new to horses, when they had horses it wasn't the best treatment as it is today.

                                      Instead...
                                      -you could help by giving advice on how to get Sheza used to being worked with my a farrier...
                                      -Offer advice to where to find farriers
                                      -what should a farrier do when the horses backs and just pulls away?
                                      Oh, honey, if you think what your mare received from the farrier was "the best treatment" , then you've got bigger problems to worry about.

                                      And, as the cops will tell you, ignorance is NO excuse, whether it's running afoul of the law, or horse care. Some horses only let you screw up so many times before they give up on you. If you continue on the path that you are following with your horses (and I'm not just talking about this thread), your horses won't want to have a damn thing to do with you.

                                      It's been said before in this and other threads of yours... (just so you know, this is the answer to your first question, which will then also help solve the third) ready for it... PUT YOU HORSES IN PROFESSIONAL TRAINING FOR AT LEAST 60 DAYS
                                      "Riding: the art of keeping a horse between yourself and the ground."

                                      ~Horsebiters Clique Founder~Drafties~The A Team~Anti-Kohlrahbi Proliferation Group~Elite Closet Canterer...by proxy~

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #39
                                        Originally posted by YankeeLawyer
                                        I understood this to mean that she was, among other things, backing and threatening to rear. If a horse is panicking and backing like that, you can bet that if you "back[] her up fast making her run backwards" that she will in fact rear. And the few times I have seen people who don't know what they are doing respond to a rearing horse by trying to make them back again, the horse flipped over. You don't correct a horse that is evading by backing/threatening to rear/rearing by backing them more.
                                        She reared when I was lunging her, then again when he lunged her.
                                        -Lindsey

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          DJ- Sounds like the horse is reacting out of fear? You will need to really concentrate on ground manners with her, building trust (not with just you either) and will probably need to rely on asking others to help out.

                                          Many horses have a fear of farrier work- it's just not a natural instinct to be patient while someone works on their feet. When you 'pick-out' a hoof it's only for a short while but trimming/shoeing requires much more patience for the horse. If the horse is disciplined violently- you're adding fear to the equation, which will take all the more time and patience to overcome.

                                          Would I switch farriers? Absolutely. You might have to pay just a bit more- but is money or the horse more important? Is it normal to have a farrier discipline a horse? Yes but NOT hitting them with a rasp. An unruly horse might need to be shanked (or rope halter with someone at their head. In your case not only do you have a tougher horse to deal with now- you've got to be concerned with healing a wound (flies, infection, scarring).

                                          I trim a horse that is extremely flighty. If you aren't paying attention 110% he will do something dangerous. He has many many fear issues- but I would NEVER- not once EVER- even yell at him let alone strike him. It has to be patience all the way and I must be completely alert to his every twitch. After 2 years he's getting better but it's a long road.

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