CT-toddler badly bitten by horse

[BornToRide]

What I'm waiting for is stegall's follow up post with an article saying the barn is being sued or the father has demanded the horse be euthanized because it's dangerous. And various local politicans and zoning officials receiving complaints about the dangerous horse activities in the area and how it should be shut down. And then various media somehow bringing up another case in another part of the state where a drunk teenager climbed over a fence and got trampled by a herd of bison or something and how the livestock owners really need to control their animals.

That is how crazy this country is. It's a dangerous world - and someone out there is going to make people pay up when life give them lemons.

And for horse owners, we have to go around trying to get equine activity liability statutes created, and then they get litigated when insurance companies can't decide whether a particular incident is covered under their policy or not - etc etc.

That's what I'm ticked off about. Used to be that when a dog bit a kid the parent would berate the kid for bothering the dog. Now we shoot the dog and set the kid up for life with the insurance settlement.

God let's hope not - yeah always make the other person take responsibility. That's the solution.....NEVER take responsibility for one's own actions!!

[Coobie]

Well, sure we all make mistakes, but when it comes to something big, as a parent i would always err on the side of caution, sorry. Common sense tells me that, not knowledge about livestock......

Common sense to us around horses isn't always common sense to "regular" people. Why can't this just be an accident, instead of him being a terribly stupid father?

[MHM]

Common sense to us around horses isn't always common sense to "regular" people. Why can't this just be an accident, instead of him being a terribly stupid father?

If the small kid trips in his living room and whacks his head on the coffee table, that's an accident.

If the parent in charge of a small kid lets the kid get within range of a large animal, that's a stupid father (or mother, as the case may be).

[BornToRide]

Common sense to us around horses isn't always common sense to "regular" people. Why can't this just be an accident, instead of him being a terribly stupid father?

Yeah, what MHM said.....from what I have learned through lessons learned about safety and risks, most accidents are preventable !

[chai]

Poor horse. I hope the negligent parents who let their child get too close to strange horse won't sue. What ever happened to plain old common sense?
It is amazing to me how many people are just pushy/stupid and put their kids in a dangerous situation They also put the owner in a position of liability because of that ridiculous 'attractive nuisance' legal excuse for 'I didn't take responsibility for my kids or teach them common sense so it's your fault.'

We live on a fairly busy road, and our farm is private. When we first moved here, I came home from the grocery to find a man in the field with my very aggressive/high strung TB mare, letting his 2 year old 'pat the horsie'. We didn't allow any adults in the field with that mare, let alone a child! I never got out of a car so fast in my life, and I scared the daylights out of that man and his kid, screaming, "GET OUT OF THERE!" at the top of my lungs. He doesn't know how lucky he was.

I guess the question is, "Why was a 2 year old allowed to get so close to a strange horse?" I hope the little boy will be ok, and the parents will not sue the owner of the horse or the farm.

[Ann]

Where is the Love?

I've spent my life with horses in one way or another--working at stables as a teen-ager, leasing, owning, breeding, showing, rescuing, ect. I think it's because I imprinted on them very early in life; one of my earliest memories is of getting a pony ride on a large bay horse that belonged to some cousins in England, and, in France, walking with my mother to feed sugar cubes to a pony that lived in a field close by.

It's unfortunate that our litigious society has caused horse people to be so defensive, frightened and angry towards children among the non-horsey general public. We all have to start somewhere; not all of us are fortunate as children to live in a family that is horse-savy.

Yes, there are people who act like jerks around horses but I think they're more the exception than the rule. Most people will understand if you explain a situation to them in a kind, respectful manner. And you can always let them know about places they can take their children to get instruction on horsemanship so they can develop their interest in a safe environment.

Those kids that you're so hostile towards are the future. When you turn people away from horses, don't be surprised as stables and land designated for horseback riding is earmarked for other purposes or swallowed by development.

[Pat]

Ann, the "love" stops when people cease to have the common manners of ASKING can I pet your horse. It's not the people who come into my barn and ASK that piss me off. It's looking down the driveway and seeing people leaning over the fence or climbing ever closer to the top rail that makes my blood boil.

Or the children who are nicely shooed away that keep coming back, constantly eyeballing the barn to see if you are there. Then give you dirty looks when caught.

If you ever find a random person in your paddock, I'm afraid you'll then understand where we are coming from.

I do not come from a horse family. I was raised in the 'burbs, less than an hour from NYC. My parents had the good sense to sign me up for lessons.

[Scaramouch]

I find the attitudes with the previous few postings and summed up as above on here absolutely astounding - or gob-smacking!

If a commercial equine yard or even a single horse owner has a horse that is bad mannered and to such an extent that its viscious and biting people and toddlers in the face, then its their responsibility to ensure that its away from where it can do any damage or harm until its properly trained.

I've been around horses all my life and I'd never in a month of Sundays call them unpredictable .... flight and fright animals yes but unpredictable NO WAY

And as for the person saying "I'm not surprised that a child got bit in the face. How many times have you (all you horse people) seen people want to touch the soft nose of the horse or even kiss it. I can see a child leaning over to do just that" Well I've never heard anything so ridiculous - of course you should be able to touch the soft nose of a horse and even kiss it and a child should be able to do that and if your horse won't tolerate that, then I'd suggest you rehome it to someone who will be able to train it so it has good manners and respect before it does serious injury.

So what you're saying is that it is MY responsibility to make MY horses safe for any random idiot to come onto MY property with THEIR children and mess with them without my supervision or permission? Great, with attitudes like that out there it's no wonder that people have such obscene senses of self-entitlement when it comes to "cute little horsies."

How would you like it if some random kid came up and kissed you in the nose? Oh, that's fine isn't it, or else you have bad manners! Hardly. People teach their kids boundaries with respect to other people, but not with animals, who deserve the same amount of respect as people do. Of not more that is, since animals cannot always control their reactions! My trainers **** horse does not appreciate having his nose messed with at all, if you try to kiss it he will knock your front teeth out. Anyone who is expected to handle him is told this and to anyone else that information is irrelevant because they have no reason or right to be around him. But he's a vicious, undisciplined rouge, oh yes.

Horses ARE unpredictable, they will spook, and when they're scared, they do not think as they would otherwise. IME, most training goes out the window as they try to deal with the scary object. If a horse is trying to get away from a killer tractor backfire or other frightening thing, the last thing he's worried about is your personal space! If someone with a gun shot at you from behind, would you be too concerned with the personal space of those in front of you? I think not.

[BornToRide]

Originally Posted by Thomas_1
I find the attitudes with the previous few postings and summed up as above on here absolutely astounding - or gob-smacking!

If a commercial equine yard or even a single horse owner has a horse that is bad mannered and to such an extent that its viscious and biting people and toddlers in the face, then its their responsibility to ensure that its away from where it can do any damage or harm until its properly trained.

I've been around horses all my life and I'd never in a month of Sundays call them unpredictable .... flight and fright animals yes but unpredictable NO WAY

And as for the person saying "I'm not surprised that a child got bit in the face. How many times have you (all you horse people) seen people want to touch the soft nose of the horse or even kiss it. I can see a child leaning over to do just that" Well I've never heard anything so ridiculous - of course you should be able to touch the soft nose of a horse and even kiss it and a child should be able to do that and if your horse won't tolerate that, then I'd suggest you rehome it to someone who will be able to train it so it has good manners and respect before it does serious injury.

Makes me wonder if some people live in the real world.....I would never do this to an animal I do not know and even if you know your horse pretty well, you can still get hurt if they suddenly react to something that scares them. Happened to me. I wanted to give mine a kiss on the nose when he suddenly heard something and jerked his head up. Guess who had a bruise on the lip.....I SHOULD have been more cautious when I did it because animals can and are UNPREDICTABLE!! This is a FACT, not some MYTH! And this is a very well behaved horse!

[ESG]

1.) I don't think the parents have been screaming about it? They hadn't even called animal control.

I'd be really interested to see more details on this story.

If no one was screaming about it, why'd it end up in the news?

And yes, I'd like more details as well.

[ESG]

If the small kid trips in his living room and whacks his head on the coffee table, that's an accident.

If the parent in charge of a small kid lets the kid get within range of a large animal, that's a stupid father (or mother, as the case may be).

Yep.

Sad that the difference has to be pointed out, isn't it?

[Just My Style]

I wish all parents had the same standars and sense of responsibilities. Unfortunately, they don't.

Thanks. I know. My horse is going to be coming home soon. He currently lives at my parent's house, so my son is used to the idea of a horse being home like a pet and the type of behavior we have around them and how we will respect the horses and leave them alone when they are in their space. However, I fear for some of his friends who have no clue about horses. The rules will be set in stone and all children who enter the property and will be given the "rules around horses" speech. If they can't handle it, then they will be asked to leave. Sorry. It's rough, but not as rough as a hoof to the head.

I can't tell you how many people have said to me, "I should bring my niece/ neighbor/ cousin/ daughter, Suzy Sunshine over to ride. She just loves horses.". Uh NO! In fact, one of my friends asked what we were planning to do with the kids over the summer and when the "riding camp" started at my house. Uh NO! I have a draftX that is just a hair too big for a 3 year old child. Anyway, I went off about how I am not made to be a teacher. How I do well with green horses and not with green riders and how there are plenty of professionals in the area who would be thrilled for little Suzycakes to come on over.

[ESG]

<snip>
It's unfortunate that our litigious society has caused horse people to be so defensive, frightened and angry towards children among the non-horsey general public. We all have to start somewhere; not all of us are fortunate as children to live in a family that is horse-savy.

Yes, it is unfortunate. But since hubby and I have worked hard to earn what we have, we're going to take every step we can to make sure we keep it, and not lose it in a lawsuit to some jerk who thinks he knows better than we about how to act around our horses, on our property.

Yes, there are people who act like jerks around horses but I think they're more the exception than the rule.

Um, no. Most people will look at you as if you're insane, or treat you like psycho bitch from hell if you warn them that feeding fingers to horses might not be in their best interests. Clearly, you haven't spent much time around boarding barns that can be visited by the general public. If you had, you'd never make a statement like this.

Most people will understand if you explain a situation to them in a kind, respectful manner.

Um, no, again. Most people who will take a child to, or go up to and pet a strange horse themselves are exactly the type that are first to take great offense if you tell them it isn't safe.

And you can always let them know about places they can take their children to get instruction on horsemanship so they can develop their interest in a safe environment.

Now this, I agree with. And this is what I do, when someone calls/visits my farm, looking for lessons for their 3 year old daughter or grandson. I give them the names of places I know they can go and take the kiddies to pet noses and feed carrots, and let them get on with educating the toddlers. My facility isn't equipped or appropriate for doing this, so I do referrals.

Those kids that you're so hostile towards are the future.

No one's hostile towards the kids, that I've read here; it's the parents that need a good smack upside the head. A couple, even; one for not protecting and educating their children appropriately, and another for not respecting other peoples' property/animals/wishes.

When you turn people away from horses, don't be surprised as stables and land designated for horseback riding is earmarked for other purposes or swallowed by development.

Um, in case you haven't noticed, that's already happened. Everywhere. And besides, it's not nasty horse people that make horse friendly land go away; it's nasty developers who're putting up more and yet more cookie-cutter developments as the population encroaches on more agricultural land. We could all be freaking Ghandis and it wouldn't make the land disappear any more slowly.

[Thomas_1]

So what you're saying is that it is MY responsibility to make MY horses safe for any random idiot to come onto MY property with THEIR children and mess with them without my supervision or permission? .

I think you find I said what I said NOT what is in your vivid imaginative mind!

How would you like it if some random kid came up and kissed you in the nose? .

Happened to me last Thursday with a little girl that has Downs Syndrome that I was about to give a riding lesson to.

My trainers **** horse does not appreciate having his nose messed with at all, if you try to kiss it he will knock your front teeth out...... But he's a vicious, undisciplined rouge, oh yes. .

So she'll have a job on persuading folks she is a good trainer if her own horse is so badly behaved then and you will never persuade me she is!

If someone with a gun shot at you from behind, would you be too concerned with the personal space of those in front of you? I think not.

And what the heck has that got to with anything - or were just on a roller with your mad rant?

[ESG]

Thomas, the only one I see madly ranting here, is you. At those of us who don't have perfect control over our horses' every action at every moment.

Sorry, but you're all wet.

[2DogsFarm]

Take some deep breaths!

I live in fear of this sort of thing now that I have my horses at home.
I work 4 days a week and my pastures face a road that is becoming busier with bike traffic now that new subdivisions are coming in.
I purposely set the fenceline 50 feet back from the road and leave the ditch unmowed to make it less attractive to stop and wander into my "petting zoo".

Placing fault does not change the fact that a child was badly hurt.
I'm sure the Father did not intentionally place his child in danger. Just as I'm sure a horse with a known tendency to bite would not be left pastured where there was unsupervised public access.

Accidents are called that for a reason - noone goes looking for this sort of trouble.

[Thomas_1]

Um, no. Most people will look at you as if you're insane, or treat you like psycho bitch from hell if you warn them that feeding fingers to horses might not be in their best interests. Clearly, you haven't spent much time around boarding barns that can be visited by the general public. If you had, you'd never make a statement like this.

Um, in case you haven't noticed, that's already happened. Everywhere. And besides, it's not nasty horse people that make horse friendly land go away; it's nasty developers who're putting up more and yet more cookie-cutter developments as the population encroaches on more agricultural land. We could all be freaking Ghandis and it wouldn't make the land disappear any more slowly.

Personally I've always found that if you take the time trouble and effort to be polite and explain to people how to behave and not behave around horses that customers and the general public respond favourably and well.

However I tend to be polite and don't rant on and on and on and on about "jerks" "fizzelwits" and am not ordinarily rude to those who are unsure about how to act round horses.

[Curb Appeal]

Most people tend to react to stories like this based on personal experience. If you read the responses, you'll see that most of us have had to deal with a fizzlewit who thinks they're immune to anything a horse might do. The general public is NOT well educated where horse behaviour is concerned, and usually not receptive to being educated by those who actually own the horses they're trying to pet. So forgive us if we're a bit snippy with someone who leaps to the defense of the ignorant, when the knowledgeable try to save them from themselves.




Oh, come on - how likely is that? In the first place, any horse owner would/should know better. And in the second place, if it were their horse, they wouldn't be screaming about the child being injured, since it'd be (correctly) perceived as being their own damned fault. Can't possibly be accountable for our own actions, can we? Jeez!




Oh, you've never had your fingers accidently nibbled when feeding a treat or putting in a bit, or checking teeth that may need to be floated? I sure as heck have - by my own horses. Your horses must be like Thomas's - equine paragons.



Not always. See above.



And you know this horse made an aggressive move towards this baby's face how, exactly?!?!? Were you there? If not, belt up about that. Unless you were present during the incident, you know exactly as much as the rest of us do - what we read in the OP.

It made the news because paramedics were called. News people love to latch on to a story like that. At the time of the article, Animal Control said they had not been called, so from that it doesn't sound like the parents are "screaming" about it.

An accidental nip on the finger is one thing. I bite bad enough to cause a "a pretty big injury" to the face of a todder is entirely different.

[Huntertwo]

First of all, I don't think it has anything to do with an "Ill mannered horse".

I NEVER trust any animal 100 percent, including my own.

My pony doesn't have a mean bone in her body... But would I put my face up to her's for a "kiss"??? Never!

And to put your child up to or near a strange horse? Plain stupidity

[ESG]

Personally I've always found that if you take the time trouble and effort to be polite and explain to people how to behave and not behave around horses that customers and the general public respond favourably and well.

And since you're not in the US, it makes sense that our experiences would differ.

However I tend to be polite and don't rant on and on and on and on about "jerks" "fizzelwits" and am not ordinarily rude to those who are unsure about how to act round horses.

Nor am I. And thank you so much for ASSuming that I am. I could give you chapter and verse about how many times I've had to stop people from feeding my and my clients' horses inappropriate treats, or feeding a horse that I know is a biter, and gotten it in the neck for my trouble. I treat people as they treat me. If they heed my words and move away from MY horse when I ask, all is rosey. But if they're rude, they get it back in spades. And 90% of the time, they're rude. How nice for you that Scotland is such a paradise that everyone knows how to behave perfectly around you and your perfectly behaved, utterly controlled horses.