Need dog to protect against coyotes.

[summerhorse]

guarding breed such as German Shepherd dog, begian shepherd dogs, Meremma which were originally bred to guard sheep from wolves and are absolutely perfect for that purpose.

the german and belgians actually like to HERD animals which in today's world means they like to chase them. All of them. if you get a dog I would def. suggest getting a LGD from someone who specializes in them.

[Rawhidenlace]

Either/ Or

Great Pyrenees are excellent as are donkeys or mules.

I have seen mules go after Pumas (Mountain Lions) in Eastern Oregon. If the cat was unlucky enough to get away after the first attack the Mule would tromp it do death or bite it repeatedly until either badly mangled or dead. I don't see why a mule would not kill a coyote if it stayed around long enough to find out what the mule was doing in the pasture.

My mother had the GP in her flock of sheep for years. There were great guardians as well as protectors. Our lamb slaughters were greatly reduced after mother introduced the dogs.

I guess you have to consider which animal would be easier to keep. Dog food over hay, grain etc. You don’t have to hire a farrier to trim a dog’s toenails and if they are outside on rough ground they usually wear down their nails. Vaccinations are require whether you get an equine or a canine though. Something to think about.

[RegentLion]

I'm planning on getting an Anatolian Shepherd when we get settled on our property. We have coyotes, wolves, and the occasional Mtn. Lion.... wooohoo.

I have met a breeder and the dogs, and I have begun to realize that in order for a dog to be effective, it has to be out 24/7 (with available shelter), but you still ahve to find a balance of socialization--although the dogs are characteristically aloof (breed standard of many LGDs) and happier with the herd.

So you make the shift from "dog as a pet" to "dog as a working animal" and you really have to accept that there will be losses from time to time. It is a hard thing to think about for any animal lover.

[silver2]

Holy Sh!t, you're in PA????? While reading your post, I'm thinking to myself, "Oh, those poor people in the west...".

If this was someone from the west they wouldn't be frekaing out about a couple harmless coyotes

I lived in probably the highest density, human acclimated coyote country for YEARS and never had a problem with them coming after anything other than outdoor cats. I don't believe cats belong outside so that was never a problem for us. MY 50lb hound dog is more than capable of seeing a coyote or two off the property but has NEVER been in a fight with one, nor have the dogs of any of my friends. It is not a common occurance AT ALL for a coyote to fight any dog bigger than it can kill quickly and eat. Generally they avoid dogs, sometimes they will play with a friendly one but I've never, ever heard a substantiated account of them "luring" a dog to the pack to be set upon. Also they don't suck your blood while you sleep I would bring a young foal in near the barn at night, but again I've never heard of them doing anything other than going after the placenta.

Personally I'd rather have coyotes than a bunch of neighbours who bought herding or protection dogs and don't know how to train them. Now, THAT is an accident waiting to happen. Unless you know how to train one and you're home most of the time to keep an eye on it, do your neighbours a favour and get a lab.

Donkeys are fine except that if you have lush East Coast pasture you're probably going to have to keep them off it a good chunk of the year or risk founder.

[daytimedrama]

Here in CA the females come down off the hill and yip, I have witnessed them many times "lure" the great Coyote chaser up to the den, he came back bitten/ attacked. These bites only happened when he followed them up the hill.

I have seen the dogs play chase with some brave coyotes, but usually the dogs chase them off the immediate property.

[silver2]

daytimedrama, those could be love bites That or the alpha male and alpha female who don't allow any other pairs to breed in their territory have laid down the smack. They're not luring him up there to eat him by your own admission- he's following his male instincts into trouble, repeatedly I might add. Coyotes are territorial and when he leaves his territory and goes into theirs the chances of an interaction go up.

I live in CA too and I'm a lot older than you and I've never had a dog bitten by a coyote. Rattlesnakes, alligator lizards, rats, cats, possums, other dogs, horses and raccoons and my neice yes but never a coyote.

Now that story about the moose? You people are crazy! Those things are dangerous!

[Amchara]

Gee, stop talking about dogs, it makes all of us with out dogs feel bad!

The lab I trained to bark, growl, snap his teeth, roll over, jump three ft, shake hands, high five, lie down, sit, stay, and was almost taught to go get the mail (Kid you now, all of those things are different, including the vocal ones) have all been spoiled. The oaf will run away bashedfully, wagging his tail when you tell him to come.

I am blessed to take care of my instructors goldie though. He practically has a hard attack when he comes to visit each time, with all of the cats I have. He lies down not moving and they surround him. The pet rats scare the bedjesus' out of him too. Just a bit big and needie.

[daytimedrama]

daytimedrama, those could be love bites That or the alpha male and alpha female who don't allow any other pairs to breed in their territory have laid down the smack. They're not luring him up there to eat him by your own admission- he's following his male instincts into trouble, repeatedly I might add. Coyotes are territorial and when he leaves his territory and goes into theirs the chances of an interaction go up.

I live in CA too and I'm a lot older than you and I've never had a dog bitten by a coyote. Rattlesnakes, alligator lizards, rats, cats, possums, other dogs, horses and raccoons and my neice yes but never a coyote.

Now that story about the moose? You people are crazy! Those things are dangerous!

I don't know I worked at the California Wildlife Center (www.californiawildlifecenter.org )last yr and asked about the behavior of the females, I thought it was weird too....the vet and the founder told me the females will lure dogs to the males near the den. The dog was usually pretty smart about just chasing them away except when they would howl during the day...which is really creepy BTW.

[Celtic Diva]

Get a German Shepherd. They're the most amazing dogs on the planet! They're so loyal (all the shepherds we've had won't eat if we leave them at home), so gentle to the family (especially children) yet so protective. They are very discerning, too. We had a neighbor that we used to chit-chat with all the time, nice guy. Well he was on his way up our driveway and Mikey sees him and runs to him and starts growling. We call him back and tell him to stop and he did, but kept watching the guy. So we were talking to the guy, and Mikey gets up again only this time he body checks him. We had no idea why he was doing this so we put him in the backyard.

A few months later, the guy was in jail for drugs and spousal abuse.

Oh, and here's a few pics of Mikey (and me)

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...gotbrushed.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3.../doggie002.jpg

That's my 110 pound baby and I love that guy to death! The pic on the top is very recent, and he's 10 years old. Looks good, doesn't he?!

[MES]

Wow, what a thread. Thank you to everyone for all your great advice.

I’m thinking of a donkey or a llama. A dog would also be good. A donkey would be easy to obtain. The llama, because it won’t be as noisy as a donkey and would be cool to have around. Can llamas be nasty?

For what it’s worth, I’m not ‘freaked out’ about the coyotes, as someone suggested. I live on a large property in the country and accept (and welcome) wildlife living in my woods. For the most part, I would leave the coyotes alone.

I don’t have barn cats breeding unchecked on my property. I have ONE barn cat. She was born here and is spayed. She gets shots and costs me money. In return for that, she’s my trained assassin and a valued worker on my farm. If some stinkin’ coyote thinks it needs to make her into dinner, then I’m going to step in and do something to stop it.

The coyotes do not scare my horse. I’ve seen him grazing in the pasture beside one. Horse loves dogs and didn’t chase it. The TDF pony is smaller and not so happy to have coyotes around. I can’t afford to let anything happen to the TDF pony. She’s too valuable. And yes, I believe a pack would try to take her down. Even if they didn’t kill her, they could cause damage.

So I’m off to locate an appropriate coyote stomper.

Celtic Dive, you have a gorgeous dog.

[jmac84]

Here is an article from our local paper. Apparently, both the vets who examined the dog and our Dept. of Environmental Protection agree that the 60 lb Shar Pei dog was attacked by coyotes. The attack resulted in his death. They believe the attack was territorial, not for food. But, where, as here in CT, the coyote population is growing in suburban neighborhoods, I don't think you can assume their behaviour in the wild will stand true. When you combine the scarcity of territory and food with an acclimation to people and pets, its a recipe for disaster, and I believe attacks like this one will increase. I feel that it is my responsability as a pet owner and mother of a 10 mo baby girl to protect them, and my husband has been instructed to shoot on sight. I am considering buying a mule to patrol the pasture. The other problem with lliving in the burbs is that a LGD is probably not a good idea - too close to busy roads and neighbors, I don't think it would be fair to leave an LGD out 24/7 in this environment, and I don't think my neghbors would appreciate it.

On a side note - I have to admit I was laughing at the image of a mailman being chased by wild turkeys ....... until I was taking a stroll with my daughter through our pasture and saw two huge turkeys that did not seem too concerned about our approach ... my daughter can't even run yet ... yikes!! Its going to be years before I let the poor girl play outside without me hovering over her!!

Where the wild things are: Turkey, coyote attacks in Windsor
By Kym Soper and Max Heuer, Journal Inquirer
02/24/2006


WINDSOR - A twisted version of George Orwell's "Animal Farm" seems to be taking place in town of late, with wild turkeys going after children and postal workers, and coyotes leaving a dog for dead earlier this week in the Wilson neighborhood.


Police say they had to shoot three wild turkeys that were attacking a postal carrier last week near Clover Street Elementary School, but the coyotes that killed a local dog are still on the prowl.

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Michael Ballard, who lives with his family on a small farm on Meadow Road straddling the Hartford city line, said Tucker Blue, the dog killed by the coyotes, was primarily a housedog who slipped out the door when friends came to visit Tuesday night.

Weighing a hefty 60 pounds, Tucker, a Chinese Shar-Pei, never went very far during his infrequent escapes, typically circling the house before returning home, Ballard said.

The farm has seen its share of coyotes over the years, but in the last five or six, they've increased in numbers and become particularly emboldened, he said.

At least 20 wild cats have become prey, as did a few rabbits the farm had in a hutch a few years back, family friend Lisa Morando said.

But even as he went outside to look for his prize dog 20 minutes later, Ballard still thought Tucker would be okay.

He found the 3-year-old dog barely standing by bush on the side of the house. From his shoulder to his hindquarters he had been skinned alive.

The veterinarian said that the breed's loose skin was torn off in a fight with the coyotes.

"It was absolutely horrible," Ballard said. "For him to make it back home like that - he put up a hell of a fight."

Morando and Ballard think the coyote population is growing in town, and they say they're concerned about other people's pets and children.

"There are a lot of kids on Wilson Avenue," Ballard said, adding that he has a house cat he won't let outside anymore and two German Shepherds who are kept secure in outdoor kennels.

Dale May, director of wildlife services for the State Department of Environmental Protection, said it's not unusual for coyotes to be so prolific or aggressive in such a suburban area.

Indigenous to the west, coyotes started showing up in the northeast during the late 1950s and early 1960s, initially moving into farm areas and woodlands.

But now that the population has grown, coyotes live their entire lives in communities filled with people and domestic animals, May said.

Known for their salt and pepper grayish fur with a reddish tinge around the leg and tail, Coyotes are different from domestic dogs. Because of their bushy fur, they look bigger than they are, May said. An average female adult weighs about 30 to 35 pounds while a male tops the scales at about 40, he said.

They hunt around dawn and dusk, and when there are young in the nest both the male and female spend 24 hours a day scaring up food.

Squirrels and chipmunks are typical feasts, but cats are also fodder, he said, adding that if coyotes attack a dog, it's more about territory.

They have no known predators except man, and if they become a problem the DEP says pets should be kept under constant supervision and suggests that local law enforcement or property owners kill the coyotes.

Tucker would never have started a fight with the coyotes as he was not territorial and would rather play with visitors and their pets, Ballard said, adding, "It's like losing a member of the family."

Coyotes are not the only wild animals in Windsor that have proved vicious of late.

In an unrelated incident, police were forced to shoot three turkeys last week that were terrorizing a neighborhood near Clover Street elementary school.

Capt. Thomas LePore said police began receiving reports that the turkeys were acting aggressively toward residents and mail carriers in late January.

One postal worker doused a turkey with pepper spray to no avail, while another used a garbage pail to defend himself, LePore said. The turkeys were also chasing children, LePore said.

He said police received about six complaints, the last on Feb. 13, when an officer shot three of the turkeys. All of the complaints occurred in the Clover Street neighborhood, he said.

On Feb. 1, LePore said a fourth-grade student at Clover Street school was chased by a pack of turkeys, which so "terrified this youngster" that the student fled into a stranger's minivan.

That woman, who LePore called a "concerned person," called police reporting the turkeys were "vicious" and looking into the minivan, according to LePore.

Police contacted a DEP turkey expert, who advised officers to "harass" the turkeys to scare them away.

The expert told police the turkeys were likely migrating due to the changing season - and that it was common for male turkeys during this season, which is their mating season, to act aggressively in an effort to show off.

He said turkeys are less fearful of humans in some cases because people feed them during the winter, making the animals more comfortable around people.

If the turkeys did not respond to harassment - which LePore described as waving one's arms and making noise - police were advised to kill them, LePore said.

"If (the harassing) doesn't work, where someone's at risk, really the only thing is for law enforcement to... destroy the animals," LePore said.

On Feb. 13, an officer was in the area on unrelated business when they saw three turkeys chasing a mail carrier, LePore said.

The officer tried to shoe the turkeys away, LePore said, but the animals disappeared briefly only to return.

That prompted the officer to shoot all three turkeys on the street, LePore said. The animals were disposed of at the landfill in town, LePore said.

While LePore said the officer acted properly by executing the turkeys, he added future run-ins with the birds would likely be handled differently.

"The Windsor police will most likely not take the action of actually putting them down," LePore said. "We will most likely let the Department of Environmental Protection handle that."

He added that authorities were still unclear exactly who had statutory authority to kill the turkeys.

May said that in an emergency, where someone appears in danger, local law enforcement has the authority to kill a wild animal before calling upon DEP.

There are more than 30,000 turkeys in the state and a limited number of conservation officers who can respond in a timely fashion, May explained.

"This is a very typical issue for suburban towns these days," May said, noting that most of the complaints DEP gets lately is over wild turkeys.

It's uncommon to have turkeys attacking people, but not rare, May said, and when it happens it's always the same type of situation.

This time of year the young toms are entering their first mating season with a rush of hormones and they begin by fighting amongst themselves for domination of the flock and sometimes its gets carried over to people - typically small children and the frail or elderly, May said.

A mature tom weighs about 25 pounds and stands three feet tall, he said.

"I've seen cases where they jump up, flap their wings and try to kick people," May said.

A lot of it could be avoided if people stopped feeding wild turkeys or try to tame them, May said.

"We recommend that police encourage folks to not feed them, try to scare them away, and if all else fails, it's okay with us to destroy them," May said.

Mating season can go for several months, primarily during April or May, he said, adding that the Windsor turkeys were "getting an early start."

As for coyotes, hunting should heat up in the spring as pups are born, he said, warning that resident should keep an eye on their pets.

For Tucker it's too late, but Ballard wants to make sure his neighbors are aware of the danger.

"We want people to be aware of this coyote problem and that it does exist in Windsor," he added. "Unfortunately, we lost Tucker. I don't want it to be a kid."






©Journal Inquirer 2006

[rescuemom]

The sheep farm next door to me has Maremmas, guard dogs, to deter predators both animal and human. They are out 24/7 and do a great job. Owner doesn't live on the property. It is my understanding that LGDs aren't much in the way of pets, but excellent in guarding.

[carolprudm]

The sheep farm next door to me has Maremmas, guard dogs, to deter predators both animal and human. They are out 24/7 and do a great job. Owner doesn't live on the property. It is my understanding that LGDs aren't much in the way of pets, but excellent in guarding.

That is correct. LGD's need to bond with the herd, not the humans.

And BTW, German shepherds are NOT LGD's. Herding is a very controlled aggression and dominence. GDS's are very smart and can be trained to a high level but guarding a herd is not their best talent. A good LGD is actually submissive to its herd, not the leader.

LGD's aren't very human oriented. They need to be able to work independently. They can (and should)be trained but they need to focus on the herd more than the human. "You want me to do what? Oh, OK, but what's that over there in the next field? I gotta go check the fence line. Now what? OK, but I'm really bothered by what's in the bushes over there, are you done yet? Can't you see I'm BUSY?"

[RugBug]

I’m thinking of a donkey or a llama. A dog would also be good. A donkey would be easy to obtain. The llama, because it won’t be as noisy as a donkey

I house sit for a mini donk breeder. She has about 8 donkeys on the property and the ONLY time they are noisy is when it's feeding time. They are VERY smart and now when they are suppose to be fed. So, if you feed them at 5, they start making noise around five...and not constant noise. Just a bray now and again to remind you to get yourself out of bed. You'll never need an alarm clock again.

Another place I house sit has two mini donks and they make noise around 6:30...b/c that's when they are used to being fed.

The donks are the easiest keepers. The 8 donkeys eat about a flake of hay a day, less (possibly nothing) when the pasture is nice (think typical CA pasture...dirt lot that does have some vegetation in winter/spring).

The donks aren't prone to the same digestive problems as horses. They will rarely eat themselves sick. All in all they seem pretty easy to maintain...a LOT easier than horses.

[summerhorse]

Can llamas be nasty?


Yes indeed! Not all are but they are also not all sweet cute creatures either. And when they get really mad at you they spit up all over you. And they may have soft feet but they can still pack a wallop. Someone on one of my livestock lists had them and had to get something (LGDs I think) to protect THEM but they also had bigger predators than coyotes too.

Some people love them and some people don't. I know there are a lot of them ending up in rescue because people don't always research all their points, good and bad. I saw one rescue on animal planet that had an ungodly number of them. And more people begging them to take more!

Donkeys are VERY easy keepers (in fact you have to watch they don't get obese as they do easily, luckily they aren't prone to easily founder like ponies)
None of the ones I've been around have been noisy, they barely said anything. Now if they DID say something, yes that was noisy. There was a mule next door to me once though and HE was noisy and what an awful noise it was too, not like a donkey which is only mildly annoying.

[Celtic Diva]

And BTW, German shepherds are NOT LGD's. Herding is a very controlled aggression and dominence. GDS's are very smart and can be trained to a high level but guarding a herd is not their best talent. A good LGD is actually submissive to its herd, not the leader.

Not so sure about that. This guy actually runs the show between the two: http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...tintheOgre.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Shepherd

[BeastieSlave]

Turkeys!

OMG ROFLMAO about the turkeys
I was sad to read about the dog in the article, but the turkeys were hillarious! Poor traumatized kid in the strange minivan!
Obviously, OP should find some wild turkeys. It sounds like they don't take much duff. I had one in my backyard a few weeks ago that was most unimpressed by my cat

[Tess' Mom]

Ok, I'm trying not to get paranoid and I've grown-up in the country ....The coyotes I have seen in the east seem to be bigger and less afraid of people than the ones out west. I have been told that many of the coyotes we see are "coydogs"-crosses between dogs and coyotes. I have seen coyotes lurking around pastures in the middle of the day and they would not run away as we hacked by. This was in the Bedminster area of New Jersey. When we saw about 5 or 6 standing on a hill overlooking the pasture holding our broodmares and babies, we turned-out our stallion with the group.(He's a good boy and loves his mares and babies, we wouldn't have done this if he wasn't used to being with the mares in a natural situation) The stallion wouldn't let a mouse get near his family, though he's good with us.
My brother lives in Litchfield county in Connecticut and he watched a pack of coyotes take down a deer in his backyard. He got very concerned because they have 2 young children who love to play outside. They have only 5 acres but live next to a 2000 acre preserve. So they got a beautiful German Shepherd from a reputable breeder. She literally patrols their property and keeps an eye on everyone. They have not seen any coyotes since.

[Tiki]

These are coy-dogs, and they do run in packs like dogs, rather than alone like coyotes. They are much more dangerous because they are bigger, have more dog-like than coyote-like teeth, run in packs, and are not afraid of humans.

[Rawhidenlace]

Coy-Dogs

~They are much more dangerous because they are bigger, have more dog-like than coyote-like teeth, run in packs, and are not afraid of humans.~

Mixed genes in this type of animal are going to cause more trouble than they are worth. In this case I would say buy a rifle .243 or 30.06 and be done with it. Get one with a scope and make each shot count. These type of canine mongrels learn fast when you miss your mark. Growing up in the Pacific Northwest we hunted coyotes a lot. Had to or we lost a lot of calves and lambs. The foals were never a problem, but then we had some pretty ornery mares when it came to the babies. Yes coyotes will also kill for fun, and they will lure away domestic dogs to kill them. Territorial yes that is why the protect the feeding grounds around them and our domestic dogs even though they are not hunting cause the coyotes or coy dogs to think other wise. Competition is competition.