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question for buyers and sellers?

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  • question for buyers and sellers?

    how much negotiating room do you think is feasible on a horse that has been on the market over a year, has not been ridden on a consistant basis and has not been shown in a year and a half(and has a mediocre record)? plus...he has failed at least one pre-purchase. current asking price is 15k.
    this horse would be used for hacking out and lower level dressage. i have no objections to maintnence issues.

  • #2
    Originally posted by 3horsemom View Post
    how much negotiating room do you think is feasible on a horse that has been on the market over a year, has not been ridden on a consistant basis and has not been shown in a year and a half(and has a mediocre record)? plus...he has failed at least one pre-purchase. current asking price is 15k.
    this horse would be used for hacking out and lower level dressage. i have no objections to maintnence issues.
    LOTS (and lots -they're not giving him him away..or paying you to take him????)
    * <-- RR Certified Gold Star {) <-- RR Golden Croissant Award
    Training Tip of the Day: If you can’t beat your best competitor, buy his horse.
    NO! What was the question?

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      funny that is the same thing my knowlegable friends say! he should be priced per pound! but i owned him briefly and would very much like to have him back. i am a forever home so is that worth anything?
      but you have an agent who wants to make money(nothing wrong with that) and owners who bought high and are having to sell low. real low. so what i want to know as a potential interested buyer is do you just give them your lowest offer or wait until he fails the prepurchase and offer less money at that point. is that even kosher to do?
      i have never bought a horse w/o a trainer.

      Comment


      • #4
        In this market, I think you are pretty safe waiting them out....NG PP (not good pre-purchase) pretty much puts the horse in the 'unsell-able' range. If you have any tricks up your sleeve for getting the horse sound...don't share them...sounds harsh but...what the hell .
        * <-- RR Certified Gold Star {) <-- RR Golden Croissant Award
        Training Tip of the Day: If you can’t beat your best competitor, buy his horse.
        NO! What was the question?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 3horsemom View Post
          how much negotiating room do you think is feasible on a horse that has been on the market over a year, has not been ridden on a consistant basis and has not been shown in a year and a half(and has a mediocre record)? plus...he has failed at least one pre-purchase. current asking price is 15k.
          this horse would be used for hacking out and lower level dressage. i have no objections to maintnence issues.
          if hes out in pasture and not worked a lot plus failed a vetting then hes not worth 15k is he
          try 500 quid as market value as in meat money
          15k they got high hopes on a horse stuck in a field for over a year--
          and if hes not insured then ask why-- as he could have a loss of use slapped on his back
          here in uk -- its a freeze brand with an L in a circle

          ooh and matey-- it could be he cost them 15k a year in medical bills only

          Comment


          • #6
            What has happened to honesty and ethics? Why play games?

            You know the horse will fail the prepurchase. You've owned him before. You want him back. Decide what he's worth to you and offer that amount. A short explanation to the agent and the owner should suffice.

            "Dobbin is dear to my heart and I would like him back. I understand that he is priced much lower than what you had hoped to get, but I also know that XXXX is wrong with him and that he won't pass a pre-purchase exam. Rather than drawing this out, I would like to offer $XXXXX for him and can assure you that he'll have a forever home with me. I sincerely hope you'll consider my offer."
            Whoever said money can't buy happiness never owned a horse.

            Comment


            • #7
              They may really not be in a hurry to sell him. He may look pretty in the pasture. And the "failed" prepurchase may not mean much - previous potential buyer might have wanted a horse who her vet thought would hold up to GP work, or with absolutely no boney changes, or or or.

              I had a vet "fail" a pony of mine saying he had a hairline fracture in his pastern. Not! That was an expensive misread xray, but it sure didn't make me want less for him.

              Then again, at this point they might be happy to be rid of him for a fraction of his asking price. Absolutely no way for us to predict. I would be inclined to think of the price you would be willing to pay for your old friend, call the current owner, and say "I know you are asking 15000 for him, but if at any point you would be willing to take X for him, I would be delighted to give him a forever home." Personally, I wouldn't talk him down - I would praise him, put the offer out, and see what happens.
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              • #8
                I think there is lots of negotiating room. Something tells me with "failed PPE" and "no objections to maintenance issues" go hand-in-hand?

                There was someone selling a green, grade "warmblood" (in the lowercase sense...not an actual breed) that has an injury that prevents him from jumping or hard riding for $2500 the other day, and I thought THAT was too much.

                Comment


                • #9
                  15K Wow, I would pay maybe 5K. but a horse is worth what you'd pay for it. Esp. if its failed a ppe you don't know if the horse is going to go lame being put back into work. Thats a big big deal. You buy this horse and spend 15K and then bring it home and put it back to work it might go lame and never be right. Its a big chance to take. JMO
                  Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    i have no secret to "make" him sound. he was being marketed as an event horse but is now being marketed as a potential dressage horse.

                    thanks gls about the info regarding loss of use. i have never noticed a brand as you describe so i do not know if it is common practice here.

                    i am not playing games, i am trying not to insult the seller (i did not sell the horse to this seller) who bought this horse for her child for alotof $$ and is trying to recover her "investment". i do not know the woman but i did e.mail her many months ago just to say that i would like to know where the horse ended up and recieved a very nice e-mail in return.not to long ago, i saw the trainer at a horse trial and introduced myself in order to let her know that nothing bad had to happen to him and that i would always give him a home. so it is out there that i would take the horse back if they wanted to give him away. what is not out there is that i am prepared to pay a few(very few) thousand dollars to buy him back.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      I know you are asking 15000 for him, but if at any point you would be willing to take X for him, I would be delighted to give him a forever home." Personally, I wouldn't talk him down - I would praise him, put the offer out, and see what happens

                      i have nothing but praise for this guy. he is a terrific horse just has been asked to do a job for which he was not mentally suited.

                      that is a good phrase...at any point would you be willing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The seller is going to take a bath on this horse and if she has been trying to sell for a year, she should be aware that the market is not very good. $15K can get you a very nice horse these days. However, she may not have come to grips with that reality.

                        If the seller bought the horse for a child and the horse is unsuitable, I would be bet that the child is riding another horse at this point. So they would own or lease one other horse. Do you know if they board or keep horses at home? If it is the former, there is more motivation to sell. Paying board and maintenance for a horse they can't use really adds up over time.

                        I think making a straight out offer of $X is the way to go. I wouldn't make it contingent on anything. I would also offer to pay the trainer's commission. If the price is low, this isn't going to be huge amount of money and it may sweeten the deal enough for the seller. They will get all of the $X dollars.

                        I don't know if there is a specific point where a seller is willing to accept an offer or not. I think it is more like windows of opportunity. The circumstances are right -- you have unexpected bills, you aren't getting along with the horse, there is a job change, there is an illness, whatever. You just are at a point where selling at a loss is not a huge deal anymore. You want to simplify and not have to own this horse any more.

                        So as a buyer, if you really want this horse and are pretty sure you can get $X fast, I would leave it as a standing offer. Keep in touch periodically. You may find they come back to you in a month or three months or whatever. I actually bought a horse that way -- saw a picture of her and said, it you ever want to sell her for $X, let me know. And I got the call a year later.
                        Where Fjeral Norwegian Fjords Rule
                        http://www.ironwood-farm.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Before answering your question, I want some more info--how old, experience of the horse, breed, size, temperament, etc. For example, if it's a 12 y/o horse who needs joint injections to keep him happy, and has tons of experience, a super temperament, is bombproof and is in the 16h range, then you might have less room to negotiate. I think it depends on a lot of other things.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            thank you ironwood. i also think the seller who is not a horse person does not have an eye on the market. the child is off at college and lost interest in her senior year.
                            so do i make the offer to the trainer?

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by luise View Post
                              Before answering your question, I want some more info--how old, experience of the horse, breed, size, temperament, etc. For example, if it's a 12 y/o horse who needs joint injections to keep him happy, and has tons of experience, a super temperament, is bombproof and is in the 16h range, then you might have less room to negotiate. I think it depends on a lot of other things.
                              he does meet the above criteria.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Yes, if the trainer is marketing the horse make the offer there. The sellers are probably (and understandably) hoping to offset some tuition costs or pricing the horse by adding up what it's cost to own him. Both seem normal procedure for those not familiar with selling horses like parents of kids who lost interest or went to college. The trainer may have told them a different lower price the parents balked and said, "We're not giving him away, we paid more/have more into him..."
                                Just keep the offer friendly...better if you give it in person since the written word can be misconstrued as snarky or sarcastic by the person reading it.
                                Good luck, hope you get him back.
                                You jump in the saddle,
                                Hold onto the bridle!
                                Jump in the line!
                                ...Belefonte

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I'd make the offer to the owner. The trainer has no incentive to pass your offer along if she's getting a commission (b/c her commission presumably will be so small).

                                  Isn't the owner feeling the pinch of paying board? If it is at some kind of sales barn (maybe not, if the horse hasn't been ridden) the board is PRICEY and I've seen lots of nonhorsey owners just decide to cut their losses and stop the $$ hemoraging every month. All of which is why I'd approach the owner nicely. I'd just say "I know you are asking $15,000. I can't pay that, but I care about the horse so if you ever decide you just want him gone please let me know. I'll give him a wonderful forever home."
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                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    i do not know anything about the owner's financial status. i do know that i have given away a horse and altho it was apparent to me that the horse was not sellable if we were to be honest about her, it took many months to convince my non-horsey husband of the same thing. finally i quoted the only thing i remembered from his b-school days...."sunk costs are sunk costs".
                                    thanks misty blue for your wisdom. i was thinking of e-mailing but you are right...in person will be much better. of course he is in another state.
                                    i must add that i have heard nothing but nice things about the trainer. i have no reason to believe that she would not want what was best for this horse.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      On the surface, it looks like the owner should be motivated to sell the horse. If he has been on the market for a year, then they are aware of the costs associated with keeping him. If he "failed" a PPE, they should be aware that he is not going to be an easy sale.

                                      How long has he been with this trainer? If this is a fairly new development, then the owner might want to give the trainer more time. If the trainer has had the horse for ages, then the owners have more motivation to sell.

                                      I would make the owner a standing offer on the horse. They may say no initially, but they may come back later this summer with a yes.
                                      Where Fjeral Norwegian Fjords Rule
                                      http://www.ironwood-farm.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by IslandGirl View Post
                                        "Dobbin is dear to my heart and I would like him back. I understand that he is priced much lower than what you had hoped to get, but I also know that XXXX is wrong with him and that he won't pass a pre-purchase exam. Rather than drawing this out, I would like to offer $XXXXX for him and can assure you that he'll have a forever home with me. I sincerely hope you'll consider my offer."
                                        This is exactly the approach I would take. And when they turn you down, just smile and tell them they may consider this a standing offer and should call you if they change their minds.

                                        Not exactly the same situation, but the Little Bay Mare gracing my back yard now was acquired by offering the price I genuinely thought fair/could afford and leaving it as a standing offer. Roughly half her original asking price. Moral: No harm in making an honest offer.
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