• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

PETA - What your donations buy

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bgoosewood:
    are Pro-Life. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The correct term is anti-choice.

    thanks. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    Comment


    • #22
      As a close associate to Peter Singer and Tom Regan, I have had many, many opportunities to sit and speak with them in length about AR topics. I also attend an AR conference every year with THE top AR leaders. (FYI-I boycotted Ingrid Newkirk's speech) I have been questioned many, many, MANY times about having and riding horses. I have no problem with riding. Tom and Peter agree with me.
      Horses like to have jobs. I do not believe in making a horse who does not enjoy jumping, jump. (Is it cruel to throw a ball for a dog? YOu make the dog 'work', but does the dog enjoy it??)

      IMO, there are WAY bigger issues to deal with, like the slaughter of 9 BILLION farmed animals every year to merely satisfy human taste buds. Once slaughter, research, overpopulation of companion animals, and other cruelties are resolved, I will start worrying about horses and riding.


      Everyone has their views. Ingrid has companion cats. We, as a group of AR people, KNOW that we are fully responsible for domesticated animals. No one wants them running the streets, including PETA who whole-heartedly believes in euthanasia, as do I.

      I have worked in animal rights for over 10 years. I have heard every side, and have debated every issue. Its easy to try to find 'fault' in a belief, as it makes you more comfortable. That's fine. Just keep in mind that there ARE those out there who want to know the TRUTH. That is why I take MEAT SCIENCE classes, thats why I study every bit of scientific literature I can get my hands on about research. I want the FULL story. I want to be well informed, both from the AR view, AND the other side. I am not going into this blindly. I have worked in slaughter houses, fur farms, and dog research laboratories. It's horrific, and you wouldn't want your horse, your dog, or your cat to go through what these animals endure.

      I am a vegan, avoid leather at all costs (although this world is NOT perfect)
      and am completely against animal testing although I have the most severe case of multiple sclerosis you can get. I will NOT give MS charities money so others (the animals) will die in vain. I am but one life. Thousands of animals do not need to die for me to live. Its not right. Their lives are JUST as important to them as mine is to me.
      \"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a wand and a strip search.\"

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #23
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erin:

        What hoodoo is saying is that PETA is not representative of the AR movement. So using quotes from PETA to define AR isn't really proving anything.

        <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        Erin, I've read every single post. I am stunned that you and hoodoo are saying that PETA is not representative of the AR movement! PETA is extremely representative of the AR movement. In fact, I'd say they define it.

        Ok, folks, everybody take a quick office poll. Say to your co-workers: "PETA. What is it?" Tell me what they say. Or ask people: name an animal rights group. Tell me what they say.

        In addition, I gave quotes from other ARs: a Princeton professor, the New Jersey Animal Rights Alliance, the Animals Agenda, the Animals Voice. The John Bryant quote was from his book "Fettered Kingdom". I have given quotes from FIVE non-PETA AR places right there, and I can give you a dozen more. So, are NONE of these representative of the AR movement?

        I think many horse people really have their heads in the sand on this one.

        {And yes, Erin, I am really enjoying this discussion. I do appreciate all your posts- they're great for getting & keeping the ball rolling}.

        Comment


        • #24
          Erin, MB & Daydream pretty much summed it up for me. The views of one AR org. doesn't constitute the views of all.

          I think Peta's gone off their collective rockers. There are a lot of people involved with Peta who have (or had) no idea that they are funding terroism groups. Paul McCartney supports Peta and he has horses and rides. He is pretty serious about animal rithgs

          If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop diggin'- A Cowboy's Guide to Life
          The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #25
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bgoosewood:
            Erin, MB & Daydream pretty much summed it up for me. The views of one AR org. doesn't constitute the views of all.

            <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

            I gave the views of SIX AR organizations, not one. Six. Can we say 'denial'?

            Comment


            • #26
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anne FS:

              Erin, I've read every single post. I am stunned that you and hoodoo are saying that PETA is not representative of the AR movement! PETA is extremely representative of the AR movement. In fact, I'd say they define it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              PETA is the most visible face of the AR movement. No doubt about that. Does PETA represent the views of the majority of animal rightists? My perception is that they don't. Same as Jimmy and Tammy Faye don't represent the views of the majority of Christians. Same as USET doesn't represent the views of the majority of horse people. (Hee hee... okay, maybe the last one isn't as good of a comparison. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] )

              My point is that the views espoused by PETA do not necessarily seem to jive with the views of the general "animal rights movement." PETA is the loudmouth arm of the movement that gets all the attention, but my perception is that they are not "the movement." Again, that's just my perception as someone who has looked into this stuff a bit.

              I am pretty sure you can be an animal rights supporter and think PETA is a crock of horse doody. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

              Comment


              • #27
                Well, that just says it all! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

                "It is by no means the privilege of the rider to part with his horse solely by his own will." -- Alois Podhajsky

                "Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."
                \"It is by no means the privilege of the rider to part with his horse solely by his own will.\" -- Alois Podhajsky

                \"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony.\"

                Comment


                • #28
                  MB and yd - you go, girls!

                  Did you say you, too, were autonomus rebels?? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
                  http://wildwoodfarmnc.com

                  http://cantersgutenberg.wordpress.co...g-quiet-goose/

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #29
                    Make that SEVEN. I'm adding HSUS:

                    Wayne Pacelle, Senior Vice President, Humane Society of the United States:

                    "We have no ethical obligation to preserve the different breeds of livestock produced through selective breeding. ... One generation and out. We have no problem with the extinction of domestic animals."

                    "The life of an ant and that of my child should be granted equal consideration."

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      <sigh>
                      Tom Regan is a RIGHTS THEORIST.
                      Peter Singer is a UTILITARIAN.
                      The NJ Alliance for Animals is a college based grassroots organization. Not exactly the thinkers and the shakers. One thing you find out quickly in AR circles, is the longer you are involved, the less PETA and the like mean to you.

                      Peter Singer's quote referring to human torture--if its for the good of many...of course killing BILLIONS of animals to help our lowly human population thrive is THE case study for ignorance and selfishness.

                      Alex Pacheco left PETA years ago over opposing views with Ingrid. I do, however believe that animals being tortured should be freed with whatever means possible, but I would do that for a human as well. DO I care about someone's job as a researcher or killer? As much as anyone cares about the guy at walmart's job. Not alot.
                      \"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a wand and a strip search.\"

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #31
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hoodoo:

                        I am a vegan, avoid leather at all costs
                        <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        What are your saddles, bridles, and halters made from?

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anne FS:

                          I gave the views of SIX AR organizations, not one. Six. Can we say 'denial'?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          Okay... but where did you get those quotes? The fact that you found them all in such quick fashion makes me think that they were probably all compiled on one anti-AR page. And probably taken out of context. (By them, not you... Sorry, I'm a natural skeptic and I rarely believe everything I read. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] )

                          I'm not in denial. I just don't believe that things are as black and white as people like to portray them. I don't think it's as easy as "animal rights bad, animal welfare good." I don't think the world can be neatly divided into "us" and the "evil-doers." [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                          If you ask me, we as horse people have more to fear from the animal welfare movement than the animal rights movement. The hard-core AR's are awfully busy blowing up research labs and probably don't care as much about the local h/j circuit. (And RAyers, I don't mean to diminish the fears of the researchers in any way... I personally don't think there's any excuse for that kind of violent agenda. If you can't make your case with words, you're not trying hard enough!)

                          Y'know who I worry about? The naive bunny-huggers who believe everything they read, who will be easily swayed by misleading portrayals of our sports (like the moronic "article" on the death of Bermuda's Gold at the Sydney Olympics that appeared on the HSUS website the day after she was put down, calling for the banning of eventing [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] ). You convince enough uninformed suburban soccer moms that a sport is "cruel," and you suddenly start seeing useless legislation like the ban on horse slaughter.

                          It's so easy to take "facts" and twist them around and make things appear to be what they aren't. Don't believe everything you read. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                          [This message was edited by Erin on Sep. 17, 2002 at 11:35 AM.]

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Anne FS, I'm not certain that you've actually cited separate sources. Isn't Animals' Agenda PETA's own publication? And Animals' Voice sounds like the title of another group's publication. I'm not familiar with NJARA, but suspect it's a small group that is closely allied with PETA, not a major independent group.

                            I would also be interested in hearing the entire text from which isolated sentences were taken, since my experience is that they're frequently taken completely out of context.

                            Gary Francione is definitely waaay out there. People who support animal welfare or moderate animal rights are about as comfortable with his views as Republicans are with Pat Buchanan.

                            I absolutely agree with Erin, MBStark, bgoosewood, etc., that the issue of animal rights is not black or white, either/or. It's a spectrum of beliefs, just like religion or politics.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I don't see this as horsey and it is getting Political. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              Good one, MBStark! Agreed!

                              But before it's (hopefully) locked, I must point out to aspiring PETA-freaks or AR supporters who might have in mind attacking my chosen animal-filled lifestyle that I have given up HRT, I have a shotgun, and I know how to use it!
                              [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                QUOTE:
                                [Wayne Pacelle, Senior Vice President, Humane Society of the United States:

                                "We have no ethical obligation to preserve the different breeds of livestock produced through selective breeding. ... One generation and out. We have no problem with the extinction of domestic animals."]



                                Wayne is a VERY good friend of mine. Says it right. I would rather see cows, pigs, etc extinct than suffer unimaginable horrors of the slaughterhouse. If given a choice, euthanize me, don't stun me, hang me up alive (6 out of ten times) and skin and dismember me while I am conscious. Yep, Wayne is right on. We are breeding animals to torture them. I hope to God that someday we no longer breed pigs in sow crates to live horrible joyless lives. A life like that is not worth living.
                                \"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a wand and a strip search.\"

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Just saw that Wayne Pacelle quote. I've seen it tossed around before, and actually had the opportunity to ask him about it. It *is* taken totally out of context. He was quite familiar with its routine misuse.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hoodoo:
                                    <sigh>
                                    Tom Regan is a RIGHTS THEORIST.
                                    Peter Singer is a UTILITARIAN.
                                    The NJ Alliance for Animals is a college based grassroots organization.
                                    Not exactly the thinkers and the shakers.
                                    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    Not exactly the thinkers and shakers? Tell me who is then.

                                    Tom Regan: Head of Dept. of Philosophy & Religion, North Carolina State, 1995-1999. Master's and Doctoral degrees from the University of Virginia.

                                    Peter Singer: Professor of Bioethics at Princeton University. Master's from University of Melbourne, B. Phil. from Oxford.

                                    NJ Animal Rights Alliance. Grassroots, eh? and therefore not credible. Like USA Eq?

                                    What about HSUS, the Animals Agenda, the Animals Voice? You said nothing about these organizations/publications. So are they, too, like PETA, and the 'non-thinkers' Drs. Singer and Regan, not speaking for your movement? Please then, tell me who is. I give source after source, quote after quote, of people, organizations and publications telling me they are speaking for the animal rights movement. Guess they're all liars, then.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      I have commented on these threads before, but my Opinion is that we need someone to the Far Left so we can find a happy medium in the Middle.

                                      When I worked for Greenpeace for 5 years, I would hear so many people say we were Radical. I personally thought we were more main stream and I would tend to be more on the side of Earth First.

                                      But I don't necessarily have to agree with EVERY aspect of an organization's mission statement to lend them some support.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #39
                                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erin:

                                        Okay... but where did you get those quotes? The fact that you found them all in such quick fashion makes me think that they were probably all compiled on one anti-AR page. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        I've been collecting animal rights quotes for 12 years now. I have an extensive collection. They're in a file on my hard drive. I save them because people simply refuse to believe that's what the AR movement is about, so I started saving the quotes in 1990.

                                        If they were all compiled on one page, does that make them less valuable? How odd. I understand about taking things out of context - so I say to you READ AR books, magazines, and publications yourselves. Go to the source, like I did. That has been my point here from the beginning. Don't take MY word for it, read the stuff YOURSELF and decide. I, too, first heard 'animal rights' and thought it was all about caring for animals and treating them well. When I actually began to read and listen to the stuff, my eyes were opened and I realized that to call myself an AR was not correct. This stuff is not taken out of context. Start reading these things.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          regarding the breeding of livestock for slaughter: doesn't it make more sense to fight for more humane methods of keeping and slaughering these animals, than to eliminate the practice completely (never happen) and deny me my right to eat meat? Not to mention the other countries that buy their meat from us. Although I agree with many of the arguments, I have always thought that AR fights battles it has no hope of winning and that are especially abhorrent to the general public. And I will never be a vegan or not use leather. But I do believe there are better ways to obtain them.

                                          Fight the fights you can win; start small and build to the bigger battles. Even small victories advance the care and lives of animals.

                                          Laurie
                                          Laurie

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X