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A question for the gay and lesbian BBers.

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  • Your last post makes me sad. It is just ridiculous that people are so non-accepting of others. This is one of the few times that I am REALLY REALLY glad I went to Bryn Mawr and had my Midwestern eyes opened and learned to accept everyone for who they are. People, kids especially, can be so mean and hurtful and I'm sorry for the way society treats the gay population!

    Aqha Clique
    Can you stress-fracture your brain?

    Comment


    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rockstarr:
      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Midge:

      And spelled with one 'l'. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      And you're missing a word in that sentence, like, perhaps, "it's."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      I'm safe leaving out the 'it's, but it should have been a phrase, not a sentence and it should have followed the subject, not been stuck on the end like an afterthought, which it was.

      ****
      Just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
      *****
      You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

      Comment


      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MardiGras:
        Are you suggesting there's a connection between gaydar and one's ability to understand one's horse?? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        Oh, absolutely - it's why there are so many of us in the industry/sport [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] And why we're so fabulous (Gay pun intentional) at it...

        Jair - with the flannel and all, are you SURE you're not confused, and secretly a lesbian??

        I don't mind folks looking however they're comfortable (skipping over the bare midriff topic which happened while I was on the road) - just spare me the phrase "Straight acting" in your personals. Blech!!

        While on the onehand it is probably true that 'consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds', it is also true, 'all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men(sic) to do nothing', and it's in that vein that I take and applaud hobson's stand for justice, even when it may seem personally inconvenient.

        Of course, I showed up at her house driving my Dodge 2500 4X4, and no, not the electric version, but the fuel hog version, and we still went out for a wonderful dinner.

        Peptalk - as to whether we would voluntarily choose to be g/l/b/t, sure, I would! Have you read the threads here about women hiding their horses from their husbands, or heard straight women complaining about men? Not to overgeneralize here, but heck, I'm making a point. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] I prefer to think of gay rights as a freedom of association sort of an issue rather than a poor me, I'd do it differently if I could sort of issue!

        There might be a couple women I wouldn't date if I had it to do over again,(and raise your hand if that's not true of the rest of you, whichever gendere you've gone out with! but heck, the past 20 years would have been way different for me without the lesbians in my life, and I probably wouldn't be the person I am now, living the life I love if I changed many of the characters in my past...

        Off soapbox. Carry on!
        http://wildwoodfarmnc.com

        http://cantersgutenberg.wordpress.co...g-quiet-goose/

        Comment


        • If it offends you ... don't open the thread.

          Frankly, the Moderators and the Administrator are enjoying the discussion, and will not be closing it.

          We wish you would read it and learn tolerance.

          My vote way back when for 'best thread of the year' was for Jair's Open Discussion, that Erin posted a link to earlier in this thread.
          Mal:This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then .... explode

          Comment


          • Good heavends, Jair! Plaid and Prada shoes! I think you'd better get some Doc Martens, sweetie--Wolverine boots just don't say, "Style," especially when paired with a nice Coach bag.

            Kudos for tellin' 'em like it is, boys! (and girls)

            Floccia non fascio!
            ~This is *way* more fun than doing something productive~

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl:
              just spare me the phrase "Straight acting" in your personals. Blech!!

              Peptalk - as to whether we would voluntarily choose to be g/l/b/t, sure, I would! Have you read the threads here about women hiding their horses from their husbands, or heard straight women complaining about men? Not to overgeneralize here, but heck, I'm making a point. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] I prefer to think of gay rights as a freedom of association sort of an issue rather than a poor me, I'd do it differently if I could sort of issue!
              <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              I've actually never had the chance to read a "straight acting" personal. That's nauseating.

              I agree 110% with you on choosing to be gay. If I could, I would. As I said, I find there's an element of self-loathing in the attitude that says I would rather be straight cause it's easier. Anyone that feels that way, I suggest you immerse yourself in gay culture for a bit. Even if you just spend a weekend at a women's festival. It really really readjusts your perception. It's truely reflective of the heterosexist culture that glbtqs would WANT to be anything but. I find it quite sad. As I would a black person who wanted to be white... You should have an element of pride in who you are. I don't mean you have to prance around in parades - I mean self-pride - value yourself enough to LIKE who you are.

              Now this is getting really long, but I think part of that is a lack of gay and lesbian role models. If any of you have ever seen a documentary called celluloid closet, it talks about how people have been desperately looking for gay subtext in the media for EVER. It was like seeing a glimmer of validation about who you were. It's too bad that we still often have to grasp at straws. I wish there were more out public figures out there.
              Marge, with today\'s gasoline prices, we can\'t afford NOT to buy a pony!

              Comment


              • Seems like I read an article recently on the use of "straight-acting" in gay personals, but can't for the life of me remember where. This led me to think that it must be relatively common, so..

                Just performed an unscientific study based on the same gender personal ads in the LA Weekly.

                Seven female/female; one uses feminine, one femme.

                Twenty male/male; four use straight-acting or straight type; three masculine.
                The Evil Chem Prof

                Comment


                • I don't care if my riders are Straight, gay, unhappy, or purple!! That's their own business.

                  As long as they obey the rules of Eventing, follow my directions, if I need to give any, and treat me well.

                  I like words like, "please" and "thank-you"

                  Hugs are nice too, I am not shy!

                  BarbaraG
                  GWV/married 27 years to a male
                  Excellent hugger [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

                  Comment


                  • I have to say I'm really impressed with the candor and confidence of this thread. I wish some young people I know could see this, and I wish some of my friends could have seen this when they were young.

                    I am blessed to have a number of friends in my life, including a small circle of very close, dear friends of many different life choices. People tend to love our parties -- guests range in age from 21 to literally 71, and may include couples of all orientations and races. My very best friend in the world, the person whom I chose over my spouse and family members as the executor of my living will, is a gay man. My oldest friend in the world is gay. For both of them, I was the first person they discussed their sexuality with, and with both of them I didn't think that was as big a deal at the time as some other issues confronting them.

                    Tolerance and discrimintation -- be it for sexual orientation, race, religion or anything else -- are big issues for me. I'm straight, but if I'm happen to have a woman approach me the only thing I am is flattered that someone is still interested! And I'm very fortunate to have married a man who is totally comfortable with his own sexuality -- enough to go out with our gay male friends and also not care if a man hits on him (and he's cute and fashionable and attentive so both sexes do like him).

                    I don't think anyone can be "persuaded" to a sexual orientation. One is either interested in a sexual relationship with a person, or not. Whatever that person's gender. Some people are exclusively interested in the opposite sex, some in the same, and some may be interested 50-99.9% of the time in one or the other but meet one person who is for some reason totally attractive enough to have and intimate relationship with regardless of gender.

                    What is of far greater concern to me than a person's sexuality is how the treat their partner. We joke that the straightest friends we have happen to be a gay male couple. And it's true. One is an accountant, the other a school teacher. They are both active in their church, one is an EMT, they serve on town committees, are fiscally responsible, stable, the works. They make us look like radical hippies. But just because they happen to be the same gender, they have to have complicated legal tomes to even nibble at the rights we have from a simple marriage ceremony. But that's another thread.

                    I suspect that gay, lesbian, bi and transgendered people may be more comfortable in the horse world because it's a place where your skills and empathy and concern for the animal are paramount, not any other social "ranking" if you will. Theater is another area where it's fairly "safe" to be out.

                    It would be wonderful if we could not need to have these discussions, if sexuality weren't so feared and frightening. But barring that, kudos to all who have come forward and shared experiences and ideas.

                    Comment


                    • and some food for thought.....

                      At a Pride Parade I once saw what I still think is the best tee-shirt design ever. A black shirt, embroidered in multi-colored thread, reading on the front:
                      "Don't assume I'm straight."
                      and on the back:
                      "Don't assume I'm not."

                      I thought it was a wonderfully provocative message to people to butt out of a person's personal life! If I ever see that shirt, I'm getting several.

                      Comment


                      • I do find it interesting what is considered off topic and what is not! The only thing that bothers me a little is that Sannois should get the same amount of tolerance from everyone for her opinions as anyone else. When you start defending one's right to be different(whatever the reason is!) you have to extend that defense to all people...not just the ones that agree with you, else your defense lose credence.

                        And as an aside,I was impressed by Janeway's thoughts ...being born gay, but environment influencing the expression of it....very well said, and I agree!

                        Comment


                        • The difference is that Sannois is being aggressive and militant. Everyone else seems to be having a pretty civil discussion. And no - not everyone's opinions should be given the same weight. Would you say the same thing about someone who was offended by africans? we should be tolerant of their opinion. When an opinion is rooted in hate and ignorance, we don't owe it to anyone to tolerate it. In fact we're doing the world a disservice.
                          Marge, with today\'s gasoline prices, we can\'t afford NOT to buy a pony!

                          Comment


                          • Well Barnie, as to the extending tolerance to opposing views, I'm pretty sure you'll find bunches of people willing to engage in spirited discussion with someone who wants to disagree with any or all of the points being made here.

                            However, someone who wants us to stop having the discussion - no, they shouldn't expect the same reaction, IMO.

                            And sure, horses may not receive menetion in every post, but the question was very specific as to the horse link - and there has been a clear tendency on the part of the moderators to let issues of importance - discussions of eating disorders, or disability, for instance, stay open for discussion.

                            "Survivor" apparently does not fall under this rubric...
                            http://wildwoodfarmnc.com

                            http://cantersgutenberg.wordpress.co...g-quiet-goose/

                            Comment


                            • I do genuinely find it interesting what is allowed on this BB and what isn't..this is not a judgement about the current topic!

                              And I didn't think Sannois's reply was all that aggressive. However,I do suport her right to think whatever she wants to is inappropriate. What I mean is that it is a very slippery slope when you start saying what is a defensible opinion and what is not. Because you are both very close to this issue,you obviously feel very strongly about anyone that doesn't understand what it means in your lives. BUT, even if you think someone's opinions are ignorant,I still believe they have the right to them. Although way off topic [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] , an analogy is the abortion thing. I have never understood how people on one side who feel soooo strongly about their opinion can't or won't recognize their counterparts on the other side that have just as strong an opinion.

                              And because Sannois doesn't find it an appropriate topic for this board doesn't mean that it won't continue to be discussed.It is a very thought provoking concept, and I have personally enjoyed reading the posts.

                              Comment


                              • that I find this "POLL" obnoxious .I honestly do not think the original poster was being " straight forward "( no pun intended.)Who cares whether a person is gay straight or whatever ? I certainly do not .. It is all part of life as we know it .I enjoy all my friends whoever they are whatever the personal preferences are.To honestly ask whether a person is around horses due to their own sexual orientation is in my mind prejudicial thinking .Why is it an important factor to anyone what another person's sexual orientation is??
                                Brilyntrip

                                Comment


                                • The original poster was intending not to stir up a war, but rather to open an enriching, enlightening discussion, which, in my opinion, this has become.

                                  I am tolerant of everyone's opinion, however, I do have to wonder what in this thread there is that could be considered offensive in any way. It's a bunch of open (and not so open) minded people discussing an issue of social interest-- one which many of us deal with daily.

                                  I am more interested, Sannois, in WHAT it is that offends you, rather than your simple statement that you have been offended. The forum is frequently home to non-equine topics that are of relevance to society. I, for one, see no harm in discussion of this topic, only room for personal growth.

                                  On the topic of the Catholic Church:

                                  A poster on page six questioned how someone who supports gay rights could be comfortable in the Catholic Church. In response, I am Catholic by baptism and choice. I love the ritual and tradition of the religion, and it truly is the foundation upon which I build my life. That said, the church and I diverge on the vast majority of political hot button issues.

                                  I have developed the ability, though, to separate the lobbying and political propaganda from the faith. Institutions (and countries, for that matter) with histories reaching back thousands of years are frquently the slowest to evolve and modernize. As a liberal Catholic, I feel that I stand the best chance of encouraging this widening of thought by encouraging change from within (not outside of) the instituion itself.

                                  The Catholic community is home to some wonderful, accepting and loving persons-- a very diverse community indeed. It is my job, as a concerned follower of my faith, to see the value of the spirituality it embodies, and to recognize that Catholicism is more than the political barks we hear so frequently from those atop the Catholic Ivory Tower. It is also my responsibility to voice my objections to the politics of the church- so that others who diverge in opinion from the Vatican will realize that there is indeed room for us all within the church.

                                  LML

                                  p.s.-- is there a disgruntled Catholics clique???

                                  *MidWest/Chicago Clique*
                                  *Cripple Clique*
                                  "With mirth and laughter, let old wrinkles come" (Shakespeare).

                                  Comment


                                  • I want to thank everyone who has posted on this thread. It is wonderful that we have had an open and interesting discussion on this topic.

                                    My brother came out to me several years ago, and has spoken in terms of an awakening of his own. It was almost as if he felt "different" for all of his life, but wasn't quite sure why. He had seriously dated one girl in high school and lived with another for a couple of years. How, exactly, he came to this realization or a further exploration of the topic with him I've stayed away from, mostly because I am so anxious not to make him feel judged or evaluated. When I told him that I loved him no matter what his orientation was, I mean it 100%, but it is something that because I do care so much about him, I've been glad to learn more about.

                                    So, thanks guys, both for educating me, and giving me a better perspective from which I can help him as he continues to adjust and evaluate who he is.

                                    And, for a horsey component, I think that the heightened perceptiveness, or intutition as Robby described it:
                                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> As a gay person, you do have a somewhat heightened sense of intuition. What we all call our "gaydar." But why do you have it? Not because it's a precious sixth sense bestowed upon you at birth, but because you grow up learning how to read signs (mostly nonverbal) as you're usually always fearful, to some degree.
                                    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                    works both to "read" people, and to "read" horses. My brother is non-horsey, but has an astonishing "way" with them, as he does with all animals. I've often wondered if he has a stronger empathetic sense because he has always felt "different" and so is very open to other's souls, or if it comes with the watchfullness and sensitivity that we both developed as the children of an alcoholic. No real way to quantify something like that, just as I think the answer to the original poster's question is, as many others have said, some of both.

                                    Thanks for the really great discussion,

                                    Libby
                                    I have Higher Standards ...do you? Find us on FB!
                                    Higher Standards Custom Leather Care -- Handcrafted Saddle Soap

                                    Comment


                                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by barnie:
                                      And I didn't think Sannois's reply was all that aggressive. However,I do suport her right to think whatever she wants to is inappropriate. What I mean is that it is a very slippery slope when you start saying what is a defensible opinion and what is not.

                                      Although way off topic [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] , an analogy is the abortion thing. I have never understood how people on one side who feel soooo strongly about their opinion can't or won't recognize their counterparts on the other side that have just as strong an opinion. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Barnie, you are my hero!! How often does it seem like people are saying (not just here, but in life) "you can have an opinion, as long as it is not different from mine."

                                      Actually, the abortion thing always amuses me - pro-choice people never really concede that the anti-abortion people have the right to make the CHOICE to be anti-abortion. The irony of the pro-choice faction's non-choice posture cracks me up.

                                      But I digress. . . .

                                      In short, I think discussion about any serious topic is valuable, even if part of the discussion involves a discussion about why the actual discussion is inappropriate!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

                                      Comment


                                      • [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

                                        You two said what I was thinking. Actually I tried to put it into words last night but it got too tangled.

                                        Of course I am as guilty as the next person of being intolerant. I was not very nice to beans when she expressed her views about PMU. I feel bad about that.

                                        But I digress as well!

                                        "Fur die toten und die lebenden mussen wir zeugnis ablegen."

                                        Comment


                                        • Isn't that what the internet is all about??????

                                          [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img] To all who would stifle it!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

                                          To all who fight against suppression!!---- [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

                                          "Everything that doesn't kill you, makes you stronger."
                                          Nietzsche
                                          www.softlandingstables.com

                                          Comment

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