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A question for the gay and lesbian BBers.

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  • #81
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeannette, formerly ponygyrl:
    So sometimes I get to wondering if a whole lot of us don't tend to tiptoe around the issue assuming that more people think more nearly like the hostile people than like the accepting ones.
    What think you, oh kumbaya crowd??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I agree. I think when push comes to shove, you ("you" meaning "one") will find that most people who truly are good hearted and operating in good faith will take you for who you are, if it makes you happy. Lesbian, bi, gay, straight, confused, whatever - it doesn't matter.

    My parents are VERY Catholic - old school Catholic. But I KNOW that if I were lesbian or bi, as much as it would . . . be contrary to what they conceptualize as ideal, they would support me. Because life is short and they would just want me to be happy. However I get there.

    I think we would be surprised at how many people are like that. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    Comment


    • #82
      It seems to me that being gay/lesbian is viewed very differently dependent upon where you live. When my husband and I lived in Maine we had many gay and lesbian friends. Not only did people seem more open about being gay or lesbian, but straight people seemed much more accepting of it.

      Since moving to southern VA we notice a huge difference of peoples attitudes. Some of the things people say, leave me with my jaw hanging open [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] (for anyone that knows me this is a huge feat!). For example: the other day hubby came home and told me that no one at work uses the shower except for him because of a gay co worker. Aparently hubbys male co workers think that the gay co worker could come in while they are showering and "turn them gay" [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

      Peoples attitudes just make me sick.

      Horses are such beautiful creatures. They accept us for who we are without noticing what we look like on the outside. They only care about who we are on the inside. If people could just be as accepting, the world would be a much better place.

      ~Lara

      http://hometown.aol.com/larajerry/my...e/profile.html
      Lara

      Live Well, Love Much, Ride Often

      Comment


      • #83
        Everything I know about homosexuality, I learned from Big Gay Al on South Park! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

        Actually, a lot of what I know came from my great uncle, who grew up gay in the South, in the early 1900s. If that's not tough, I don't know what is. After years of trying to make himself something he wasn't, he finally came out and--gotta love those stereotypes--moved to California, where he lived happily with his life partner for 30+ years. My great uncle is still alive, but his partner died of old age--believe me, the kind of grief and loneliness that comes with that is the same whether your grandparents are gay or straight.
        I evented just for the Halibut.

        Comment


        • #84
          Having warm fuzzy accepting feelings is great, but I don't think it means much if you, for instance, belong to a church that tries to make gay people disappear, or if you voted for a congressperson who supported the Defense of Marriage Act and other similar reactionary legislation.

          I know a Sierra Club member who goes on constantly about composting and recycling, and he drives the biggest, most ostentatious, gas-guzzling-est RV I've ever seen in my life. I just can't take his pseudo-environmentalism seriously.

          Comment


          • #85
            Martina's first lover was (I believe) Rita Mae Brown - who is ANYTHING BUT trendy!!

            It wasn't Rita Mae Brown I was referring to, but the later one, Judy? The one who left her family, lived with Martina for several years, sued her for palimony and went to another hetero relationship. On reflection I think it is kind of moot because I see this as more of an opportunistic/convenience thing than anything relating to sexual preference.

            I don't know about genetics. I'm one of four kids, only one of whom is gay. But two of my three step-siblings are gay.
            Proud adopter of Win
            http://www.defhr.org
            Days End Farm Horse Rescue
            Protection for Horses - Education for People

            Comment


            • #86
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hobson:
              Having warm fuzzy accepting feelings is great, but I don't think it means much if you, for instance, belong to a church that tries to make gay people disappear, or if you voted for a congressperson who supported the Defense of Marriage Act and other similar reactionary legislation.

              I know a Sierra Club member who goes on constantly about composting and recycling, and he drives the biggest, most ostentatious, gas-guzzling-est RV I've ever seen in my life. I just can't take his pseudo-environmentalism seriously.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              I respectfully disagree with you. I am willing to take people where they are at. If that means accepting some inconsistencies, so be it. That is the way life is.

              Your friend is doing what he can. But he's not willing to go all the way (e.g. walk and not drive at all? take public transportation?). Does that negate what he DOES do? No. Am I willing to take him where he's at, and be happy that he does SOME things for the environment? Absolutely.

              Here's the reality: Different people support different things to different degrees. We are human. We are going to be (a) different and (b) imperfect.

              Comment


              • #87
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:


                Remember the gay steel mill in The Simpsons! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

                [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                One of my favorite episodes [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] appropriately named "HOMER�S PHOBIA" (When Marge explains to Homer that not all gay men are visibly 'gay')
                "I like my beer cold, my TV loud, and my homosexuals FLLLLaaaaAAAAMMING." --Homer J. Simpson

                "Beer. Now there's a temporary solution."--Homer
                FairWeather
                CANTER West Virginia

                Comment


                • #88
                  I've never seen that one! trust Homer.
                  I think that is going to be my signature line, substituting "music" for "TV" perhaps!.

                  back to "nature/nurture" I don't think anything is cut and dried. (some hay imagery here).
                  In most relationships, while the sexual attraction is great,what endures as love, or in love, is all the other "stuff" - the respect, the kindness, the thoughtfullness, the humour, the knowlege that that person (he or she) is on your side, and loves you for who you really are, and will be there for you when things are good and when things are bad.
                  I have that, and wish it for everyone, male, female, and whatever combination of the two. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
                  A Fine Romance. April 1991 - June 2016. Loved forever.

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    LOL! But do you have it on tape? I may live in what likes to think of itself as a metropolitan area, but I get clear reception on 1 1/2 TV channels.

                    Which is actually OK, since TV might cut into my BB time, and I'm supposed to be cleaning tack and prepping for a clinic now anyhow.

                    Reminds me of comic Kate Clinton's line about not liking sensitive New Age men "I want them crashing around in wingtips, where I can keep track of them"
                    http://wildwoodfarmnc.com

                    http://cantersgutenberg.wordpress.co...g-quiet-goose/

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      on a CD, as a sample (helps when you're co-partnered with a club dj!).

                      It is my mantra. The whole self-identification by many gay men as "straight-acting," just annoys me. So I say, "I like my beer cold, my TV loud and my homosexuals FLLLLLAAAAAMMMMING!"

                      (Actually, Robert is the farthest from flaming as you can get.)

                      Robby, who smolders

                      You may be only one person in the world, but you may also be the world to one person.
                      When blood is the beverage of choice, the sharpest fangs feed first.

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hobson:
                        Having warm fuzzy accepting feelings is great, but I don't think it means much if you, for instance, belong to a church that tries to make gay people disappear, or if you voted for a congressperson who supported the Defense of Marriage Act and other similar reactionary legislation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        I agree with that!
                        When we got married and were looking for a church, my MIL's tenant suggested his church, which he adored. He's the organist and he's gay. We thought it was a good sign (as being an open and accepting....Christian like church!) We were right!

                        It's so easy to laugh; it's so easy to hate; it takes guts to be gentle and kind.... The Smiths
                        The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          I agree with your points, Elizabeth.


                          Robby, you are hilarious!


                          "For the dead and the living we must bear witness."

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robby Johnson:


                            Robby, who smolders

                            _ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                            LMAO!

                            Also from the great Homers Phobia episode, you find such wonderful conversations with John the 'festive' guy who runs a vintage store as:

                            John: Hi, I'm John, can I help you with anything.
                            Marge: Yes, I have something that I'd like to sell.
                            John: Please tell me it's your hair.


                            Marge: Didn't John seem a little...festive to you?
                            Homer: Couldn't agree more, happy as a clam.
                            Marge: He prefers the company of men!
                            Homer: Who doesn't!
                            Marge: Homer... listen carefully. John is a Ho-mo
                            Homer: ..Right...
                            Marge: Sexual! [homer screams]


                            Homer: Ohmygod Ohmygod Ohmygod! Oh my god, I danced with a gay! Marge, Lisa, promise me you wont tell anyone! Proomiiise Meeee!

                            Smithers: John!
                            John: Uuuh... Wayland. Uuuh. I'd like you to meet The Simpsons!
                            Smithers: I know the Simpsons. <mumbling> So this is your sick mother?
                            John: Don't do this to me Wayland...

                            (sidenote, Smithers is the BEST! LOVE him!)

                            As homer begins to think that John is turning bart Gay we get these:

                            Homer: Bart! Where did you get that shirt?
                            Bart: I'unno... Came outta the closet.
                            Homer: Uuuuuh....huh

                            Homer: Well, it's been two hours, how do you feel.
                            Bart: I dunno... I kinda wanna cigarette.
                            Homer: That's a good start, lets get you a pack. What's your brand?
                            Bart: Anything slim!

                            Homers answer from 'turning' Bart Hetero again is to make him kill a dear:

                            Bart: Something bout a bunch of guys, alone, together in the woods. Seems kinda gay.
                            Homer: That is a very immature attitude young man!


                            Thats it folks. I must get back to work [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

                            "Beer. Now there's a temporary solution."--Homer
                            FairWeather
                            CANTER West Virginia

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hobson:
                              Having warm fuzzy accepting feelings is great, but I don't think it means much if you, for instance, belong to a church that tries to make gay people disappear, or if you voted for a congressperson who supported the Defense of Marriage Act and other similar reactionary legislation.

                              <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              I appreciate the sentiment, and definitely agree in terms of the church, but, personally, when I vote I am likely to prioritize a candidates outlook on health care and education over there support for same sex marriages. If I can get both in one package, however, all the better. But I don't think my convictions are less valid if I have a different way of prioritizing them.
                              That said, with the recent debate in Toronto about allowing same sex marriages, I was quite pleased to hear of one Member of Parliament announcing his support. If I lived in his constituency, I would however have to weigh that against other decisions he has made of which I have not been a fan.

                              ~ Charter Member of the Welsh Cob clique ~

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                I was completely dismayed when, after living in Nebraska for about a year, the "defense of marriage act" came along. This was a referendum to limit marriage to one man and one woman (there was a bunch of other stuff that went along with it, but the jist was no homosexual unions were to be recognized in this state).

                                The referendum passed by a landslide, something like 80%. Very disappointing. However, one good thing that came out of it was bumper stickers that say "My marriage doesn't need defending. Sorry to hear about yours!" If I should ever get married, I'll get myself on of those bumper stickers. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

                                I've always had gay friends; I can't imagine my life without them. Maybe it's because I went to a very liberal school, but a person's sexuality just isn't a big deal to me. I do prefer the company of gay men to straight, which could be a good clue as to why I haven't had a date since I can remember! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] One of my favorite memories was spending Thanksgiving with a bunch of gay men (and their gal pals, or course [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]) and watching Ricky Martin shake his bon bon over and over in slow motion. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

                                The Panchen Lama of DQs! (Second only to Velvet, the undisputed Dalai Lama of DQs.)

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Re Elizabeth and Hobson.
                                  I think you have to hold different people to different standards. It would be great if we could hold everyone to Hobson's standards. I certainly apply it to my friends and family. But for the average smo out there I may have to live with fuzzy feelings. If it's the best I can do, I'll live with it. I think that in the long run, attitudes won't change much more than they have to date. At best, more people will be out, and more people will therefor know and be confronted with having a gay/friend or relative. Just as there are people who still hate blacks, there will always be people who hate gays. They may just have the good sense not to say it in so many words. Even now, a lot of fairly offensive things are passed off as jokes on mainstream TV, and people find it funny. I think that may change.

                                  <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robby Johnson:
                                  most men who identify themselves as bisexual are actually gay; most women who identify themselves as bisexual are actually straight.
                                  <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                  HAR HAR HAR
                                  Now THAT I can believe!
                                  Marge, with today\'s gasoline prices, we can\'t afford NOT to buy a pony!

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hobson:
                                    Having warm fuzzy accepting feelings is great, but I don't think it means much if you, for instance, belong to a church that tries to make gay people disappear, or if you voted for a congressperson who supported the Defense of Marriage Act and other similar reactionary legislation.
                                    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    I too, have to disagree, on both ends.

                                    From the religious standpoint - I grew up in a Catholic home, though we rarely attended church (too much hypocrisy around here), and my parents are very tolerant of certain things that the church is not - homosexuality being one of them. It's out there, and it is NOT "wrong" or "evil" or any such thing. Growing up with that mindset means that I think the same.

                                    I chose to go to a Christian post-secondary institution. Primarily because it was university degrees in a building of 700 people. Total. The class size, student/advisor ratio (14:1), and personal-ness were the deciding factors.

                                    I do, occasionally (usually at the barn working sun mornings when in the city) attend Church. I do not, however, believe EVERY mantra they prevail. I don't believe that suicided people go to hell, and I don't believe that homosexuality is "evil" and that those who "practice it" are practicing a sin. I'm also rather open about the fact that I disagree with those mindsets.

                                    IMO any institution will have predjudices. It does not mean that everyone within the institution has the same.

                                    And, when it comes to gov't elections, I have to agree with BackstagePass...

                                    Wait a minute... what's the "Defense of Marriage Act"??? Ignorant canadian here...I don't think we've had something like that in Canada...?? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

                                    *&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&
                                    Lindsay & Chance
                                    "Success is relative to how well you stay
                                    on the horse."
                                    ^^^^Proud member of the DCSC!^^^^
                                    &*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&
                                    *&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&
                                    "Show me the back of a thoroughbred horse, and I will show you my wings."
                                    &*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by elizabeth:
                                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hobson:
                                      Having warm fuzzy accepting feelings is great, but I don't think it means much if you, for instance, belong to a church that tries to make gay people disappear, or if you voted for a congressperson who supported the Defense of Marriage Act and other similar reactionary legislation.

                                      I know a Sierra Club member who goes on constantly about composting and recycling, and he drives the biggest, most ostentatious, gas-guzzling-est RV I've ever seen in my life. I just can't take his pseudo-environmentalism seriously.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      I respectfully disagree with you. I am willing to take people where they are at. If that means accepting some inconsistencies, so be it. That is the way life is.

                                      Your friend is doing what he can. But he's not willing to go all the way (e.g. walk and not drive at all? take public transportation?). Does that negate what he DOES do? No. Am I willing to take him where he's at, and be happy that he does SOME things for the environment? Absolutely.

                                      _Here's the reality: Different people support different things to different degrees. We are human. We are going to be (a) different and (b) imperfect._<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Well, as to the Sierra Clubber, the dude consumes far more resources in his bigger-than-the-biggest-schoolbus camper on his frequent camping trips than he preserves in his compost heap. So yes, in a literal sense it does negate what he does for the environment.

                                      Don't get me wrong, I really do think it contributes to the ultimate good in the world when people say in public that they are not really repulsed by gay people. But with all due respect, we're going to wait a VERY long time for politically marginalized people to enjoy the same basic rights that the rest of us do, if nobody is willing to inconvenience themselves.

                                      Reality as I see it? Not many people care one way or another whether there is justice and equal access for all, as long as it means they don't have to do anything out of the ordinary. If the number of people who actually claim to oppose maquilladoras actually DID something about it, Wal-Mart would be out of business by now.

                                      If everyone who feels happy thoughts about gay people actually put pressure on their social and political institutions for policy change, then Cardinal Dumba$$ would never have blamed homosexuality for the church's historic protection of felony child molesters, and lesbian mothers would not lose custody of their children to their delusional homophobic relatives.

                                      I dunno, maybe it's just me but I can't excuse people for being unmoved as they witness injustice. It's a real pet peeve of mine.

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BoldChance:
                                        [Wait a minute... what's the "Defense of Marriage Act"??? Ignorant canadian here...I don't think we've had something like that in Canada...?? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]
                                        <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        No we don't thank goodness! But the topic of same-sex marriage is very hot at the moment in parliament.

                                        Someone else can probably explain it better, but I think the Defense of Marriage Act was brought in to the US goverment in order to halt the potential for allowing gay marriages. The gist of the act is to preserve marriages as only for man/woman and nothing else. By having the Act, it would make it more difficult for gay individuals to fight for their right to marry. There is more too it, but I don't know the details.

                                        Am I close Robby et. al.? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

                                        As for the subject at hand, its always been my beleif that people are born gay. All the gay men I have known have said that they just were gay and didn't think anything had made them that way. I totally cringe at the idea that scientists out there might find some sort of exact gene or whatever for being gay, and thereby opening the whole door of couples screening their fetuses for it and aborting accordingly if their child is "diagonsed" with carrying it [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] What a horrid thought!!

                                        I like the fluid analogy for sexuality. Very accurate I think. I would hazard that while one is born gay, their environment or nurturing would be what influenced their expression of it ie. whether they were latent, and coming out of the closet later in life, or out and "flaming" [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] from the beginning.

                                        Comment


                                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BoldChance:
                                          IMO any institution will have predjudices. It does not mean that everyone within the institution has the same.
                                          <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          No, but they are supporting that institution in it's mission of prejudice. Why would anyone oppose some certain form of discrimination, but then give money and support to an organization that PROMOTES that very same discrimination? There are several religious organizations that don't hate gay people, but which also offer spiritual and even Jesus-related fellowship. Why not support those? The trouble is, not many people are willing to hold their church officials' toes to the fire, and pressure them into doing the right things.

                                          Comment

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