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A question for the gay and lesbian BBers.

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  • I know I don't want to see same-sex or straight couples making out in the mall, but I have no prob with holding hands or quick kisses.
    However, to all the people who don't care and don't want to know. What about when PDA is supposed to be displayed, at a high school dance or Spring Formal. I know I can't take my gf to things like that b/c our safety will be in danger. Straight couples can go and dance as long as they want, but I will probably never be able to experience with my girl and that's just very sad.

    Comment


    • Jessi - do you know if PFLAG offers an alternative in your area?

      Sarapony - The Purse and I love you, too. Now, make us a cosmo, we've had a rough morning.

      "If you ain't got it in ya, you can't blow it out." Pops

      Comment


      • Could you give me some more info? I just recently came out and am still very nervous about being so open.

        Comment


        • Joliemom- your fix for "The Precious Syndrome" looks good to me. Of course we all know the difference between a young person who worked their tail off and met a goal, fell short of a goal or somwhere inbetween and we admire them for how they work through it. Keep in mind, while the syndrome is expressed/evident in the youth the syndrome "starter" is the parents, my peers. Where parents are non-existant in a young person's life the school often picks up the task. (Thank you teachers for all you do!) Some children get mixed messages via IEP's in schools- a behavior which is being "modified" and thus "protected" via an IEP is often the very behavior which Dogchushu met on the METRO. That "something-teen" youth is dealing with "life" anyway and now two sets of expectations- one set which the school allows and a second set which society expects.

          "The Precious Syndrome" is found in every race, gender, religion & socio-economic group.

          SLW
          "It is I."

          Comment


          • NRB -

            There was a very famous case in NYC I believe - it's usually studied in intro psychology classes in high school/college. The Kitty Genivive murder? I'm sure I just butchered that name, but ...

            This young woman was stabbed to death outside an apartment building. Many, many people heard her screaming AND saw the assault/murder from their windows, but no one called the police or did a damn thing about it. It has to do with herd mentality, I think - can't remember the proper terminology for it - but people in a crowd go, 'Oh, well, that's really awful, but someone else will do something about it.' It's not so much shock ... but just passing the buck to someone else, almost. Whereas chances are if you were by yourself and witness something like this you'd be more likely to call the police, or DO something.

            Sorry to be a little OT.

            -Albion

            'O lente, lente currite noctis equi' - Ovid

            Comment


            • Kitty Genovese. It was awful.

              SillyHorse
              ~ Incredible as it may seem, my life is based on a true story.

              Donald Trump - proven liar, cheat, traitor and sexual predator! Hillary Clinton won in 2016, but we have all lost.

              Comment


              • I can't believe that anyone (I believe it, just think it's a horrible thing) would be so awful to another person because of something that they are or think they are.

                I also hate being grouped with a generation that has so little respect (IMHO) for other people, society, etc. People then look at ME as if I am that way when they don't know me. But I've gotten off track... please don't group me or any other responsible (I'd like to think I am- do all homework on time, study hard, work hard with my horses, used to have horses at my home, try to get along with people, etc) person along with our generation.

                Now that I've stepped off of my soapbox I wanted to ask for MCS's suggestions to stop the prejudice from happening, at least around me. I find it offensive because I know that it impacts me- how would I feel if someone treated me that way? It would make me cry inside and feel alone.

                Today I looked through my Religious Studies book on "Religion on Homosexuals". The book never says anything about treating people how YOU would like to be treated, but rather how prejudiced people are against gay people. It was disgusting. Reading through the book made me realize how simple minded people can be. I do realize that the book was outlining what different religions thought about it, but I do believe that they should do an introduction on it- ie. explain that people with a different sexual orientation are equals, etc.

                It was also a big wake up call- perhaps time for the church to look at policies. Loving your neighbor as yourself? Sorry, that only seems to apply to straight people in the eyes of some Christians. Treating people how you would like to be treated? Again, if you're straight.

                I don't know why I have a sore spot for people who won't let others live their lives the way they want to/see fit- and it's inexcusable to harass, make fun of, etc anyone that is different. A week ago I was verbally harassed by two different people (different days) for being an American. I didn't tell Bush to push for a war- I don't even know the guy.

                Dressager
                You don't throw a whole life away just because its a little banged up - Tom Smith

                Comment


                • Just a note- the book didn't say how people were prejudiced towards gays- I felt that the book was.

                  Dressager
                  You don't throw a whole life away just because its a little banged up - Tom Smith

                  Comment


                  • Well, I was going to post a slew of links to Jessi privately, but decided to be my librarian self and inform you all:

                    Here you go, Miss Jessi. I've included some of the Atlanta sites in case you're in the area.

                    http://www.pflag.org - if you've come out to your family and friends, they should also know about PFLAG. The group is active in our church and are a fantastic organization.

                    Georgia PFLAG

                    PFLAG Atlanta

                    Youth Pride Atlanta www.youthpride.org - now these are some active folks. Look at their calendar!

                    Speaking of church (being a church lady, I can't help m'self), know that there are open and affirming temples and congregations out there that support you. My own denomination has ONA Spirited Youth, but here's another link to a list of who all's out there.


                    So, get to researching!

                    joliemom

                    "If you ain't got it in ya, you can't blow it out." Pops

                    Comment


                    • the perils of the "i don't care" policy according to triggerfoot:

                      blindness and acceptance are mutually exclusive. you cannot say you respect something if you also say you don't want to know about it or admit its existence. you can't say "arabians are fine, i have nothing against them, but i sure as heck never want to see one." Taking a no-opinion stance is, according to triggerfoot, a way of hiding from things that make you uncomfortable without having to take on an unattractive or inappropriate label such as "homophobe" or "racist" or "one who hates arabian horses." How about instead of saying, "I don't care whether you're gay or straight" we say "i DO care if you're gay or straight, because I care about you in general and I am interested in you as a person, but please, if you are gay or straight, respect my feelings and don't put me in an uncomfortable situation by inappropriate displays of affection."

                      **horsie art**

                      [This message was edited by triggerfoot on Feb. 20, 2003 at 04:02 PM.]

                      Comment


                      • Dressager-
                        You might enjoy reading C.S Lewis's "Mere Christianity" when you have time as he discusses what sex between adults is, and is not. What tolerance is, and is not. What free will is, and is not. The book is a collection of radio talks he gave in the 40's which focuses on the *Christian* soliders role and of course, faith. With the clouds of war looming over us once agin it's a timely read and relevant to some concerns you've expressed so well.

                        SLW
                        "It is I."

                        Comment


                        • Dressager- EEEK someone asking my 15 year old self for advice. I dont feel I am qualified, but here goes...

                          When people make a comment such as, "you are so gay", I would look at them and say, "Are you trying to insult me? Well, how about trying something that I find insulting. I have no problem with homosexuality, but you obviously do. What makes you so much better that you may judge? I'm sorry, but I do NOT find your ignorance amusing. How about using a more educated word, if you want to insult me, you should try to explain yourself a little better. There are far better words you could use to explain how you feel about me! Am I annoying? Mean? Heartless? Obnoxious? Ignorant like yourself? THOSE I would find insulting. Being gay is not an insult, for it either means that I am happy, which I am presently not, or that I am homosexual, which is certainly no insult. What do you have against homosexuals??"

                          If you ramble on for long enough, they get the point and eventual back down and then are apologizing within 10 seconds. One "lecture" like that, and people usually watch what they say around me, and if they slip up the apologize.

                          I also am working closely with the health and wellness department, trying to spread awareness and make the school a comfortable place for whoever wishes to be there. A GSA is in the works as is a diversity club, and we are having a few speakers in next week to talk on the subject of prejudices/ignorance.

                          Ok, that advice was horrible...ill try again later

                          Thank you for asking, although I do nto feel qualified to give it.

                          ** Proud member of the Klutz Klique and the Appaloosa Clique**
                          If riding were all blue ribbons and bright lights, I would have quit long ago.
                          ~George Morris

                          Comment


                          • MCS, I am just delighted to know that there are young people like you out there trying to make a difference. It reminds me so much of some of the youth in my era (remember the 60's and early 70's anyone?). The causes that had us outspoken were the Vietnam war and racial prejudice. I'm glad to know that kids still care. You go, Girl! I'm proud to "know" you on this bb.

                            Sonesta Farms Hanoverian, Knabstrupper & Arabian Sport Horses

                            "Find something you love and call it work."
                            Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

                            Comment


                            • Welcome out, Miss Jessi! I see the stupendous joliemom has hooked you up. Also, remember that it's actually NOT expected for PDA at school dances. It's just what desperate teenagers do.

                              Remember, a person of any breeding would never stoop to such levels! At least you're at a place where you can take your girl to prom!

                              Robby

                              "Don't mince words, don't be evasive
                              Speak your mind, be persuasive"
                              Madonna
                              When blood is the beverage of choice, the sharpest fangs feed first.

                              Comment


                              • I say once in a person's lifetime they should have to wear a prom dress just to know what it's like to dance whilest adjusting your straps and/or bodice. Oh, and smile purty!

                                There. I've said it and I'm not taking it back.

                                "If you ain't got it in ya, you can't blow it out." Pops

                                Comment


                                • I go to an alternative public high school; it is often referred to as a hippy school (very few rules, student run, students and teachers on first name bases type thing). It is the type of place where you can walk in a see a punk, a goth, a prep, a purple haired monster (you get the point) all sitting together in harmony. So it is really no surprise that our school is often a refuge for kids who have been tormented for one reason or another at their "home" school. Our school is very accepting as a whole. So when I come into contact with kids from other schools or kids from other areas of the country, I’m often dumfounded when I hear some of the things that leave these kids mouths. The thing that gets me most into a tizzy is when I hear things along the line of "that is so gay". Well that just starts me on a lecture, and me on a lecture is not pretty, not pretty at all. It usually includes me asking the children what they mean when they say something is gay, because I thought it meant happy. Which usually is answered with an “I don’t know”. And then after a few minutes of me making the person feel like an uneducated idiot, I end with a "well maybe you shouldn't use words you don’t know the meaning of" I think a lot of kids nowadays use it without realizing what they are actually saying. But to me ignorance is not an excuse.

                                  The revolution is coming. Muhahahahahahaha!!!!!
                                  The revolution is coming. Muhahahahahahaha!!!!!

                                  Comment


                                  • Update- someone sitting in a group with me called another person gay and I spoke up (Thinking of how brave MCS is! ) and said that I found that offensive.

                                    After that they were sure that I was gay. I explained to them that it's a prejudiced comment, rude, and hurtful to some. Then I asked her how she would like it if I called her gay- which she replied to- "I wouldn't care". My school appears to be a lot worse than my school in the US in this regard and I know that because I am not dating anyone (Who would want to date the outspoken American that doesn't have time to hang out?) I will be branded as being homosexual- JUST BECAUSE I STAND UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT! (or at least do now)

                                    I'm afraid I finally gave up on the girl because she just kept making prejudiced slurs and thought it was all hysterical.

                                    This won't stop me, but I do want to ask MCS- How did you deal with any comments that you were gay? (or did you even get them?)

                                    Someone I knew wore a baseball hat (with a rainbow) from South America to school that his father had brought back for him. He wore it to school, thinking he was pretty cool because he had on a hat from some SA country (Can't remember, it's irrelevant).

                                    He was tormented, teased, and harassed ALL day until a friend let him in on a little secret- wearing a rainbow makes you gay. (In the closed off world of highschool) I don't know what his current dating status is, but I do know that the rest of the year he had a hard time getting anyone to even consider dating him.

                                    Of course, what do I know... I just found out today that I am one of the ONLY people at my school that hasn't gotten drunk and that doesn't even consider drinking.

                                    Dressager
                                    You don't throw a whole life away just because its a little banged up - Tom Smith

                                    Comment


                                    • Hmm...GOOD FOR YOU dressager for standing up!

                                      I have gotten the whole "then you must be gay" thing many times. I usually respond with "I am not, I am just not ignorant and have some compassion. " and then something along the lines of, "SO what if I were gay, would you hate me and torment me?"
                                      People eventually stop assuming yuo are gay and look at you as the one trying to make a difference. They can be annoyed by you, but I actually have people thanking me for helping them realize that they can hurt people with their comments.
                                      The best thing to do is not react to them, because I have found they only do it to make you freak out and say a million times that you are not gay, and then they begin to say "If being gay is alright, then how come you won't admit it??"
                                      Just try not to let it get to you and walk away.Then go hit a wall or something. that always works for me.

                                      Good for you for standing up for what you beleive in!!

                                      ** Proud member of the Klutz Klique and the Appaloosa Clique**
                                      If riding were all blue ribbons and bright lights, I would have quit long ago.
                                      ~George Morris

                                      Comment


                                      • I feel compelled to share a story since I see that my favorite human rights thread has now resurfaced.

                                        I live about 50-odd miles south of Chicago proper. In a neighboring rural area (Crete-Monee, IL), students at Crete-Monee High School recently voted two lesbians "cutest couple" in their senior class yearbook superlatives. Fabulously progressive for a rural heartland town, until you consider the absolute eruption that followed from the adults in the community (and school system). To be honest, I am not sure how this situation was resolved-- it was up in the air whether they would be included in the yearbook when last I heard.

                                        And now, the more disturbing (and altogether related) tale of nearby Rich. Township, our neighbor to the north (compared to Kankakee and Crete-Monee, just a stone's throw from Chicago (home to the hippest gay neighborhood outside of Chelsea, Boystown).

                                        Following the superlative issue at Crete, students at a high school in Rich. Township decided that they would like to form a gay-straight alliance (a friendly, open and welcoming environment where they could feel open discussing problems and issues, including those surrounding their sexuality). This was met with massive resistance, and students interested in forming the group were ultimately forced to abandon the idea due to massive school board, community and peer opposition.

                                        Following this, the progressive teachers (you know-- the ones we all liked in high school) decided that these kids really needed a place to go where they could be free of the hate and ridicule some of their classmates were spewing. In an effort to provide that place, some faculty members devised the idea of posting rainbow-triangle stickers on their doors (maybe they thought this combination of pink tirangle/rainbow was doubly good), letting students know that their rooms were hate-free zones for all targeted groups, including GLBT students.

                                        Unfortunately, their effort to help student feel safe at school was inflammatory enough to incite an impromtu school board meeting unparalleled in size. Hundreds of parents and community leaders showed up to voice (read: shout) their dissent at the teachers' actions, which many believed encouraged an "immoral" lifestyle and treaded upon the rights of straight students, who were made to feel uncomfortable (I won't even point our the ridiculous, contradictory nature of that statement). In contrast, a subsequent, regularly-scheduled school board meeting yielded only three community members in attendance-- the topic: academic advancement.

                                        End result, despite the sticker-teachers' protestations that they were NOT encouraging a lifestyle (simply discouragining hatred and oppression), they were forced to remove the stickers from their doors. Any plans for a gay straight alliance have been scrapped due to interference from the school and community.

                                        Now to me, this whole case screams "ACLU" and "lawsuit", but think about teens who perhaps have only recently come out. Think about the likelihood that they would press the issue, given their parents' probable lack of support, potential embarassment, and threats of violence from schoolmates-- all of a sudden, it's very clear why this fight has died a sudden, quiet death.

                                        But yet, Boy Scout troops continue to use our schools as meeting places-- what greater paradox is there?

                                        LML

                                        *MidWest/Chicago Clique*
                                        "With mirth and laughter, let old wrinkles come" (Shakespeare).

                                        Comment


                                        • joliemom, we love you and The Purse (tm) too!

                                          Do you have a course variant for curing the My Gifted Child Disease when it shows up in riding instruction? Perhaps the basic course and then an extra lesson:

                                          Lesson Five: Shut up and do what I tell you to in a lesson. If you knew more than I do, you'd be the one teaching. Don't ask for advice and then snottily reject what's offered. Stand still while I whack you with the purse. One day you'll thank me for it.

                                          I really do love the purse!

                                          And thanks to the poster that revived this thread. It is very thought provoking and interesting. (Especially to someone who's tired of thinking about nothing but horse feet! )

                                          Libby

                                          *Proud member of the Hoof Fetish Clique*
                                          I have Higher Standards ...do you? Find us on FB!
                                          Higher Standards Custom Leather Care -- Handcrafted Saddle Soap

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